When was a human told they could go to heaven?

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

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Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#1 Jan 19, 2013
Clue: It was not Adam, Abraham or John the Baptist!
Then who or when?
little lamb

Australia

#2 Jan 19, 2013
Its the calling to be disciples of Jesus..Its called a heavenly calling.

Because Jesus said to his disciples " I go away to prepare a place for you, for in my Fathers mansion there are many abodes."

Its the preparing of a place for us..that Christians are waiting for, and Jesus tells us he takes us home to him, that where he is we will be."

I never see Jesus telling Christians that they will be separated from him...or living a part from him

I can't find the phrase "earthly calling" anywhere in the Bible

But I do find the scripture saying Hebrews 3 [1] Consequently holy brothers of the heavenly calling ..."

So its on others to show where scripture states there is an EARTHLY calling..because its not written at all.

Even Abraham was waiting for a heavenly city having real foundations, and called himself a sojourner on the earth, in his day

John the Baptist was murdered for preaching the word...so his reward was not on the earth at that time.

Adam himself had his access to the tree of live barred from him..and so died in his mortality.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#3 Jan 20, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
Clue: It was not Adam, Abraham or John the Baptist!
Then who or when?
Beauty seems to be in the eye of the beholder. Because of the ambiguity of the statements made, no one can show that heaven is the goal of anyone. To those who believe so's credit, it can't be disproved, either.

When a statement like "it's waiting in the heavens for you", is made, it could merely mean that heaven is it's source. This earth contains nothing Godly, because Satan is it's source. That is why there is to be a "new heavens (spirit heavens regarding this world) and a new earth (earth as we know it is to change)". Those things do not exist now, outside of heaven. As far as a general resurrection to heaven is concerned, the bible doesn't mention it in unambiguous terms. As far as distinctive groups are concerned, as in the 144,000, the same. Possibly the twelve apostles, but even those statements are ambiguous.

sidgi
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#4 Jan 20, 2013
little lamb wrote:
Its the calling to be disciples of Jesus..Its called a heavenly calling.
Because Jesus said to his disciples " I go away to prepare a place for you, for in my Fathers mansion there are many abodes."
Its the preparing of a place for us..that Christians are waiting for, and Jesus tells us he takes us home to him, that where he is we will be."
I never see Jesus telling Christians that they will be separated from him...or living a part from him
I can't find the phrase "earthly calling" anywhere in the Bible
But I do find the scripture saying Hebrews 3 [1] Consequently holy brothers of the heavenly calling ..."
So its on others to show where scripture states there is an EARTHLY calling..because its not written at all.
Even Abraham was waiting for a heavenly city having real foundations, and called himself a sojourner on the earth, in his day
John the Baptist was murdered for preaching the word...so his reward was not on the earth at that time.
Adam himself had his access to the tree of live barred from him..and so died in his mortality.
If Jesus' disciples were the first to be told they could go to heaven then what about the righteous ones who were before them including John the Baptist?
Clue: see Psalms 37:29, Matthew 5:5 and Revelation 7:9,14

Other questions: Why do those who go to heaven for? What will they be doing in heaven?
NorthPeace

Camrose, Canada

#5 Jan 20, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
Clue: It was not Adam, Abraham or John the Baptist!
Then who or when?
Here's one direct example - Luke 23:43

NorthPeace

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#6 Jan 20, 2013
NorthPeace wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's one direct example - Luke 23:43
NorthPeace
I believe you are incorrect.

sidgi
little lamb

Australia

#7 Jan 20, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
If Jesus' disciples were the first to be told they could go to heaven then what about the righteous ones who were before them including John the Baptist?
Clue: see Psalms 37:29, Matthew 5:5 and Revelation 7:9,14
Other questions: Why do those who go to heaven for? What will they be doing in heaven?
Personally..I can't go beyond what is written.

Gods word calls us " brothers of the heavenly calling"

And scripture talks about Mount Zion...and Gods mountain will fill the whole earth

So I believe its a call to a kingdom..every Christian is under commandment " to seek the Kingdom and his righteousness.."

Those that stand on mount Zion with Christ , have conquered the world and mastered the song, staying faithful to Christ...Its the goal every Christian should be pushing forward to.

This offer was not on the table until Christ came to call the bride.

And the bride rules with Christ

" he that conquers I will grant him to sit on my throne, just as the Father has granted me to sit on his throne , and they will rule the nations with an iron rod..."

Because John the baptist said " he rejoiced at hearing the bridegrooms voice...

However people who died prior to the heavenly calling by the bridegroom..we are told in scripture " it is reserved for men to die once, and after this a judgment..."

Those righteous Israelites that died prior to Christ will be restored in Gods Israel of God..because we are told in the prophets of the house of Israel ' bones joining bones and the spirit coming upon dead people and them being raised to life..

and scripture talks about Jesus being Father of the resurrection ..the new man..and that.. Psalm 45 [16] In place of your forefathers , there will come to be your sons, whom you will appoint as Princes in all the earth" " ..

Every man comes into judgment...only a Christian who exercises faith in Jesus Christ does not come into judgment but passes into life...through FAITH we are already grafted onto the Israel of God.

That's why every Christian is storing up benefits for this life and the one to come..because obedience and loyalty to Christ have great benefits.

Because Jesus tells us " he that knew and didn't do will be beaten with many strokes..But he that didn't know and so didn't do , will be beaten with fewer strokes."

So we are called to a race to win a prize..its a privilege to be a Christian , and called to live a life in union with Christ Jesus.

Even the thief on the stake/cross, will be raised to life and be in the judgment with Christ..That's why scripture states " The good news is preached to the dead also ,,so they might be judged as to the flesh from the standpoint of men , but might live as to the spirit from the standpoint of God" 1 Peter 4 [6],

Because sinning kills a person...they die from the standpoint of men..the thief died from the standpoint of men..for his sin.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#8 Jan 20, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Personally..I can't go beyond what is written.
Gods word calls us " brothers of the heavenly calling"
And scripture talks about Mount Zion...and Gods mountain will fill the whole earth
So I believe its a call to a kingdom..every Christian is under commandment " to seek the Kingdom and his righteousness.."
Those that stand on mount Zion with Christ , have conquered the world and mastered the song, staying faithful to Christ...Its the goal every Christian should be pushing forward to.
This offer was not on the table until Christ came to call the bride.
And the bride rules with Christ
" he that conquers I will grant him to sit on my throne, just as the Father has granted me to sit on his throne , and they will rule the nations with an iron rod..."
Because John the baptist said " he rejoiced at hearing the bridegrooms voice...
However people who died prior to the heavenly calling by the bridegroom..we are told in scripture " it is reserved for men to die once, and after this a judgment..."
Those righteous Israelites that died prior to Christ will be restored in Gods Israel of God..because we are told in the prophets of the house of Israel ' bones joining bones and the spirit coming upon dead people and them being raised to life..
and scripture talks about Jesus being Father of the resurrection ..the new man..and that.. Psalm 45 [16] In place of your forefathers , there will come to be your sons, whom you will appoint as Princes in all the earth" " ..
Every man comes into judgment...only a Christian who exercises faith in Jesus Christ does not come into judgment but passes into life...through FAITH we are already grafted onto the Israel of God.
That's why every Christian is storing up benefits for this life and the one to come..because obedience and loyalty to Christ have great benefits.
Because Jesus tells us " he that knew and didn't do will be beaten with many strokes..But he that didn't know and so didn't do , will be beaten with fewer strokes."
So we are called to a race to win a prize..its a privilege to be a Christian , and called to live a life in union with Christ Jesus.
Even the thief on the stake/cross, will be raised to life and be in the judgment with Christ..That's why scripture states " The good news is preached to the dead also ,,so they might be judged as to the flesh from the standpoint of men , but might live as to the spirit from the standpoint of God" 1 Peter 4 [6],
Because sinning kills a person...they die from the standpoint of men..the thief died from the standpoint of men..for his sin.
There is no reason to believe you, or anyone else, are being or have been, invited to heavenly life. No reason to believe that any more than that you are being invited from heaven to everlasting life on earth. That invitation can only come from heaven either way. that is why it could be called a heavenly calling, either way. I am not saying it is impossible, just that there is no reason to see it as being called to heavenly life. Your own heart is what leads you in that direction, not the evidence at hand. More than likely it is your WTBTS background that causes that.

9 “The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it? 10 I, Jehovah, am searching the heart, examining the kidneys, even to give to each one according to his ways, according to the fruitage of his dealings

sidgi
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

#9 Jan 20, 2013
sidgi wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no reason to believe you, or anyone else, are being or have been, invited to heavenly life. No reason to believe that any more than that you are being invited from heaven to everlasting life on earth. That invitation can only come from heaven either way. that is why it could be called a heavenly calling, either way. I am not saying it is impossible, just that there is no reason to see it as being called to heavenly life. Your own heart is what leads you in that direction, not the evidence at hand. More than likely it is your WTBTS background that causes that.
9 “The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it? 10 I, Jehovah, am searching the heart, examining the kidneys, even to give to each one according to his ways, according to the fruitage of his dealings
sidgi
I agree the scripture states it is a 'heavenly calling' not that it is " a heavenly life"

So you won't find that I have used the word " heavenly life' its not in my post.

however the Zion of God, is a fact

and scripture states " who may ascend into the mountain of Jehovah?, and who may raise up in his holy place..?..

" Anyone innocent in his hands and clean in heart .
Who has not carried my soul to sheer worthlessness

he will carry away blessings from Jehovah , and righteousness from his God of salvation..

This is the generation of those seeking him

of those searching for YOUR FACE."

Psalm 24
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#10 Jan 20, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree the scripture states it is a 'heavenly calling' not that it is " a heavenly life"
So you won't find that I have used the word " heavenly life' its not in my post.
however the Zion of God, is a fact
and scripture states " who may ascend into the mountain of Jehovah?, and who may raise up in his holy place..?..
" Anyone innocent in his hands and clean in heart .
Who has not carried my soul to sheer worthlessness
he will carry away blessings from Jehovah , and righteousness from his God of salvation..
This is the generation of those seeking him
of those searching for YOUR FACE."
Psalm 24
Hey "little lamb"
Are you a Mormon? Church of Latter Day Saints? LDS?
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

#11 Jan 20, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey "little lamb"
Are you a Mormon? Church of Latter Day Saints? LDS?
Christian.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#12 Jan 20, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree the scripture states it is a 'heavenly calling' not that it is " a heavenly life"
So you won't find that I have used the word " heavenly life' its not in my post.
however the Zion of God, is a fact
and scripture states " who may ascend into the mountain of Jehovah?, and who may raise up in his holy place..?..
" Anyone innocent in his hands and clean in heart .
Who has not carried my soul to sheer worthlessness
he will carry away blessings from Jehovah , and righteousness from his God of salvation..
This is the generation of those seeking him
of those searching for YOUR FACE."
Psalm 24
ambiguity is a reality in scripture. Period. there is no definite reason to believe one way or the other. I am not saying you are not correct, I am saying that when I read the bible I can find no reason to believe you are correct to the exclusion of another understanding. And believe me, I have read the bible with your view in mind, especially since so many have that view. The bible says to make sure... There are some things that can't be made sure of, there for holding fast to it is unwise.

sidgi
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#13 Jan 20, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Christian.
There are over 40,000 different religions all claiming to be Christian. Be more specific which one are you?
little lamb

Australia

#14 Jan 20, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
There are over 40,000 different religions all claiming to be Christian. Be more specific which one are you?
True there are many thousands of denominations claiming to be Christian

But seeing "denomination" is not a scriptural word, but just a 'sect'..Would have to state that a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ and we are his disciples..not any 'sects" disciple.

God's word tells us to glorify God in being called Christian, and because I desire to glorify God in that name..it seems you have to take a Christian and stick him in a 'sect' to identify him

That makes me laugh..for a true Christians life is hidden in Christ, not a 'sect'.
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#15 Jan 20, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
True there are many thousands of denominations claiming to be Christian
But seeing "denomination" is not a scriptural word, but just a 'sect'..Would have to state that a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ and we are his disciples..not any 'sects" disciple.
God's word tells us to glorify God in being called Christian, and because I desire to glorify God in that name..it seems you have to take a Christian and stick him in a 'sect' to identify him
That makes me laugh..for a true Christians life is hidden in Christ, not a 'sect'.
What are you ashamed of?
I am proud to tell you I am a witness for the ruler of the universe. JEHOVAH known as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

What do you make of Acts 24:5
 For we have found this man (Paul) a pestilent fellow and stirring up seditions among all the Jews throughout the inhabited earth and a spearhead of the SECT of the Nazarene...?
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#16 Jan 20, 2013
NO PART of CHRISTENDOM
Jehovah’s Witnesses are no part of Christendom. In fact, Christendom was founded nearly 300 years after Jesus’ death, and its beliefs have greatly deviated from what Jesus taught. For example, we do not accept Christendom’s belief in the Trinity, which teaches that Jesus is God himself. Nowhere do the Scriptures contain this blasphemous teaching.(Deuteronomy 6:4; Mark 12:29; John 14:28) We do not use the cross as a symbol, nor do we employ statues in any way as part of our worship. These are all things that the Bible condemns.—Exodus 20:3-5; 1 John 5:21.
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#17 Jan 20, 2013
One true Religion
Ephesians 4:4-6
4 One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord (Jesus Christ), one FAITH, one baptism; 6 one God (JEHOVAH Psalm 83:18 KJV) and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.

"little lamb", What do you have to say about that?
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#18 Jan 20, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
True there are many thousands of denominations claiming to be Christian
But seeing "denomination" is not a scriptural word, but just a 'sect'..Would have to state that a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ and we are his disciples..not any 'sects" disciple.
God's word tells us to glorify God in being called Christian, and because I desire to glorify God in that name..it seems you have to take a Christian and stick him in a 'sect' to identify him
That makes me laugh..for a true Christians life is hidden in Christ, not a 'sect'.
One more question: Are you a Pentecostal?
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

#19 Jan 20, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
What are you ashamed of?
I am proud to tell you I am a witness for the ruler of the universe. JEHOVAH known as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
What do you make of Acts 24:5
 For we have found this man (Paul) a pestilent fellow and stirring up seditions among all the Jews throughout the inhabited earth and a spearhead of the SECT of the Nazarene...?
and I am grateful to God to keep glorifying God in the name..Christian..
1 Peter 4 [16] But if anyone suffers as a Christian , let him not feel shame but keep glorifying God in this name."

So there is no shame for me to glorify God in having the name Christian applied to myself.

They accused Paul of promoting a sect , because they were used to being a " united" organization of Jehovah God, set up by Moses.

..and to have a Jew come and preach a 'person' Jesus , who was from Nazareth..they called Paul as being a part of the 'sect' of Nazarene..but Paul was a Christian..
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

#20 Jan 20, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
One true Religion
Ephesians 4:4-6
4 One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord (Jesus Christ), one FAITH, one baptism; 6 one God (JEHOVAH Psalm 83:18 KJV) and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.
"little lamb", What do you have to say about that?
I agree with the scriptures , one BODY , one spirit., we are called in the ONE HOPE , One Lord Jesus Christ , one faith, one baptism, one God and Father ..so in agreement..with THE WORD.

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