Is disfellowshipping a loving provision?

Is disfellowshipping a loving provision?

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

First Prev
of 9
Next Last
Randy

AOL

#2 Jan 7, 2013
Do you think the HOLY SPIRT actually guides the Elders to determine if they should be disfellowshipped? If so, why 3? how about 2 or 1?
Remnant143999

Albuquerque, NM

#3 Jan 7, 2013
Do the elders actualy think they are stewards of their congrgation ,and that they are anointed to keep their congregation clean,when they are unclean themselves, most leading double lives? Does a museum of saints rather than a hospital for the spiritualy sick their goal?

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#4 Jan 9, 2013
Jesus hung out with prostitutes, tax collectors and other sordid people.

In fact this is what he said:

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)

"27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."

disfellowshiping is a form of judgement done in defiance of scripture by foolish old men who judge others and ignore the evil within themselves.

Those who meekly accept this false judgment should ask themselves, why?

conditional love is not LOVE at all but a form of hateful manipulation by men. It is not from GOD!

We should all do our best to evolve in LOVE. How well we are doing is between us and GOD as individuals.

When we pray for forgiveness for our sins we should be praying to GOD, not the governing body of a man made organization!

The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is held together with fear, not LOVE!

“Family comes First”

Since: May 11

Weston super Mare

#5 Jan 9, 2013
Loving provision = WT soundbite.
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#6 Jan 9, 2013
The WORD DISFELLOWSHIPPING , is not a scriptural word.

The commandment is " not to associate with a brother who is a fornicator,or idolater or adulterer."

Because " bad associations spoil useful habits."

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#7 Jan 9, 2013
little lamb wrote:
The WORD DISFELLOWSHIPPING , is not a scriptural word.
The commandment is " not to associate with a brother who is a fornicator,or idolater or adulterer."
Because " bad associations spoil useful habits."
The word "associate" basically means "fellowship".

So the word "disfellowship" basically means "dis-associate" or "stop association".

]
Little Lamb I can't believe your lack of basic understanding.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#8 Jan 9, 2013
The Bible is very clear on this issue. Jehovah's Witnesses simply follow the Bible.

Church goers find these scriptures too difficult to obey so they have invented all manner of excuses to ignore them:

*** Rom 16:17 Now I beg you, brothers, look out for those who are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and turn away from them.

*** 2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.

*** 1 Cor 5:11-13 But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Do not even eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with also judging those who are outside? Do you not judge those who are within? But those who are outside, God judges. "Put away the wicked man from among yourselves."

*** Titus 3:10,11 Avoid a factious man after a first and second warning; knowing that such a one is perverted, and sins, being self-condemned.

*** 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have continued with us. But they left, that they might be revealed that none of them belong to us.

*** 2 John 1:10,11 If anyone comes to you, and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not welcome him, 11 for he who welcomes him participates in his evil works.

*** Mat 18:15-17 "If your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained back your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two more with you, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. If he refuses to hear the church also, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector.
Remnant143999

Albuquerque, NM

#9 Jan 9, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
The word "associate" basically means "fellowship".
So the word "disfellowship" basically means "dis-associate" or "stop association".
]
Little Lamb I can't believe your lack of basic understanding.
There you go again changing a word in the bible so you can protect your beloved idol the wtbts! Fornication, you changed to the greek word pornia which gives the wtbts a blanket term so jw's can divorce.Matt. 19:4-6 Two will become one let no man sperate! You adore your idol the wtbts but refuse to get baptised,go figure!
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#10 Jan 9, 2013
The word disfellowshipping, is not found in scripture..The word disfellowshipping has become an official position given to people who disagree with the organization, regardless of truth....The commandment in the scriptures are more precise, they state who not to associate with and its implicit , fornicators, idolators and adulterers who are brothers.

But the official 'tag' of being 'disfellowshiped is applied by the organization, regardless of TRUTH to people that the scriptures do not even mention.
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#11 Jan 9, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
The Bible is very clear on this issue. Jehovah's Witnesses simply follow the Bible.
Church goers find these scriptures too difficult to obey so they have invented all manner of excuses to ignore them:
*** Rom 16:17 Now I beg you, brothers, look out for those who are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and turn away from them.
*** 2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.
*** 1 Cor 5:11-13 But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Do not even eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with also judging those who are outside? Do you not judge those who are within? But those who are outside, God judges. "Put away the wicked man from among yourselves."
*** Titus 3:10,11 Avoid a factious man after a first and second warning; knowing that such a one is perverted, and sins, being self-condemned.
*** 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have continued with us. But they left, that they might be revealed that none of them belong to us.
*** 2 John 1:10,11 If anyone comes to you, and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not welcome him, 11 for he who welcomes him participates in his evil works.
*** Mat 18:15-17 "If your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained back your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two more with you, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. If he refuses to hear the church also, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector.
Its interesting that it is the 'organization' itself that has taught people not to remain with the Apostles teachings..because Paul states he is a minister of a new covenant..and glorified God in his ministry.

Also it is the organization itself that has not remained in the teaching of Christ..seeing Jesus ministry was the mediating of a new covenant between God and men...

No one has spent more time in teaching people the new covenant is not for them then the organization.

Scripture is clear.." Separate yourself from the unbeliever..and I will take you in, and I will become your God and you will become sons and daughters to me..."

The organization as unbelievers in the covenant Jesus mediates , robs people of their relationship to the Father as SONS and DAUGHTERS.
Gonzo

Dartmouth, Canada

#12 Jan 9, 2013
I decided in my early 20’s to leave the organization. I have been DF’D for 30 years. That does not mean I agree or approve of the policy.

People have said to me,“But you knew the consequences?” Yes I did. But I decided to leave the organization…the official decision to leave my immediate family was made for me, by someone else…a third party. An outsider who imposed their rules on personal, internal family life and function. No one has the right to cross that threshold. There are few exceptions; Police in light of domestic or child abuse. However, that is not the issue here.

Every club has it rules. However, this is not about parking spaces or who mows the lawn. This is about boardroom policy, which dictates life long segregation. Why? Because a group of men say so. They argue,“No, God says so.” Such arrogance.

A loving provision? I think the intent is centered fully on control. Like an any political organization which tries to keep it’s membership in line…differing opinion leads to cracks in the foundation…and we cannot have that.

I was baptized pre-1975. I was 15.
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#13 Jan 9, 2013
Gonzo wrote:
I decided in my early 20’s to leave the organization. I have been DF’D for 30 years. That does not mean I agree or approve of the policy.
People have said to me,“But you knew the consequences?” Yes I did. But I decided to leave the organization…the official decision to leave my immediate family was made for me, by someone else…a third party. An outsider who imposed their rules on personal, internal family life and function. No one has the right to cross that threshold. There are few exceptions; Police in light of domestic or child abuse. However, that is not the issue here.
Every club has it rules. However, this is not about parking spaces or who mows the lawn. This is about boardroom policy, which dictates life long segregation. Why? Because a group of men say so. They argue,“No, God says so.” Such arrogance.
A loving provision? I think the intent is centered fully on control. Like an any political organization which tries to keep it’s membership in line…differing opinion leads to cracks in the foundation…and we cannot have that.
I was baptized pre-1975. I was 15.
Ihats so sad..because in the Body of Christ, the fact is that different ones have different gifts and functions , and all are needed in the building up of the Body of Christ in love,,,

It seems within the organization that 'sameness' and 'conformity' are stressed, whereas in the Body of Christ , its the differences that add to the function of the Body...Although we are told to have the same MIND as Christ [ not same mind as organization, which continually inserts itself as over Christ.]

However God says " before the great day of Almighty, he will send Elijah, and he will turn Fathers hearts back to their sons, and sons hearts back to their Fathers..That family relationship is important to God the Father..so much that Elijah is a messenger of reconciliation for Fathers and Sons.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#14 Jan 9, 2013
The need for acceptance and belonging is a basic human need. As humans we were not meant to be alone, cut off from society.

The fact that religious leaders use shunning as a form of discipline is violation of human rights. Many people become susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety, and clinical depression in the absence of this love or belonging element.

Shunning/disfellowshipping is cruel and unusual punishment. It is used by Jehovah's Witnesses as a weapon of control. Such practices are hallmarks of high control groups and cults.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#15 Jan 9, 2013
For any Witness defending the practice of shunning, they should consider how their leaders once felt about the practice.

Look at the January 8, 1947 Awake! Are You Also Excommunicated? The Witnesses rail against Protestants and Roman Catholics who used this form of discipline.

They claim the practice has no support in the scriptures and that it is "foreign to Bible teachings."

They trace the origins to shunning to the superstitious Greeks and pagan Druids.

They go further saying the practice is an "instrument by which the clergy attained a combination of ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny and finds no parallel in history."

Just five years after this scathing article the WTBS introduced disfellowshipping in 1952!

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#16 Jan 9, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
The word "associate" basically means "fellowship".
So the word "disfellowship" basically means "dis-associate" or "stop association".
]
Little Lamb I can't believe your lack of basic understanding.
Not associating with a person and shunning a person are two different things.

For example, there are children on my block that I would not have my kids associate with. However, I would go as far to tell my children to shun those kids.

Only one time in scripture was the command given to shun. It is found at 2 John. In that chapter, the antichrist is described; a person who according to verse 7, "have gone forth into the world not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh..." Verse 10 & 11 says we should let them in our homes (at the times homes were places of worship) or say a greeting to them.

The reason why I believe shunning is wrong is because it goes against Jesus principle of love and his mission for walking the Earth.

When the Pharisees tried to rebuke Jesus for eating with tax collectors he told them in Mark 2:17, "Those who are strong do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. I came to call not righteous people, but sinners."

I think this is an important scripture to think about. Under the current JW policy of shunning, Jesus would not have been able to administer to the spiritually sick. He himself would have been disfellowshipped for associating with known sinners! What a parallel!

“Family comes First”

Since: May 11

Weston super Mare

#17 Jan 9, 2013
Arkham Bravo wrote:
The need for acceptance and belonging is a basic human need. As humans we were not meant to be alone, cut off from society.
The fact that religious leaders use shunning as a form of discipline is violation of human rights. Many people become susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety, and clinical depression in the absence of this love or belonging element.
Shunning/disfellowshipping is cruel and unusual punishment. It is used by Jehovah's Witnesses as a weapon of control. Such practices are hallmarks of high control groups and cults.
Absolutely. Humans are social animals. Depriving them of that is a punishment normally used for prisoners.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#18 Jan 9, 2013
Arkham Bravo wrote:
<quoted text>
Not associating with a person and shunning a person are two different things.
For example, there are children on my block that I would not have my kids associate with. However, I would go as far to tell my children to shun those kids.
Not associating with and shunning are exactly the same thing.

However, FOR THE RECORD, Jehovah's Witnesses practice "not associating" with disfellowshipped members. It is up to you if you choose to call that "shunning" or not.

shun
[shuhn]
verb (used with object), shunned, shunning.

to keep away from (a place, person, object, etc.), from motives of dislike, caution, etc.; take pains to avoid.

***

The bottom line is that the Bible clearly instructs us to do this. So every genuine Christians should accept this practice.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#19 Jan 9, 2013
OOps forgot the dictionary reference:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shun

shun
[shuhn]
verb (used with object), shunned, shunning.

to keep away from (a place, person, object, etc.), from motives of dislike, caution, etc.; take pains to avoid.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#20 Jan 9, 2013
Arkham Bravo wrote:
For any Witness defending the practice of shunning, they should consider how their leaders once felt about the practice.
Look at the January 8, 1947 Awake! Are You Also Excommunicated? The Witnesses rail against Protestants and Roman Catholics who used this form of discipline.
They claim the practice has no support in the scriptures and that it is "foreign to Bible teachings."
They trace the origins to shunning to the superstitious Greeks and pagan Druids.
They go further saying the practice is an "instrument by which the clergy attained a combination of ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny and finds no parallel in history."
Just five years after this scathing article the WTBS introduced disfellowshipping in 1952!
All this proves is that Jehovah's Witnesses eventually accepted what the Bible teaches. The rest of Christendom has not had the guts to follow their lead.

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#21 Jan 9, 2013
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
Jesus hung out with prostitutes, tax collectors and other sordid people.
In fact this is what he said:
Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)
"27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."
disfellowshiping is a form of judgement done in defiance of scripture by foolish old men who judge others and ignore the evil within themselves.
Those who meekly accept this false judgment should ask themselves, why?
conditional love is not LOVE at all but a form of hateful manipulation by men. It is not from GOD!
We should all do our best to evolve in LOVE. How well we are doing is between us and GOD as individuals.
When we pray for forgiveness for our sins we should be praying to GOD, not the governing body of a man made organization!
The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is held together with fear, not LOVE!
Well said!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 9
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Jehovah's Witness Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Praise Jehovah (Jul '13) 8 min dee lightful 5,569
News Jehovah's Witnesses 'demonstrated a serious fai... 8 min The Real Karen 108
Puppy Study Proves Transfused Blood Does Feed 14 min Thirdwitness 267
Prime_LA 17 min The Real Karen 241
Forget the fact. 18 min BetheljudgmentDan... 295
YES-Jesus WAS once known as Michael (Sep '14) 21 min BetheljudgmentDan... 9,191
What do JW want? 24 min wow 337
Where in the bible is smoking a ds offense? 25 min BetheljudgmentDan... 145
Are Jehovah's witnesses Hated? 30 min Caciques a liar 324
The Twinity Dogma- the Most Ridiculous Dogma of... (Mar '15) 1 hr wow 1,195
What is the trinity? (Apr '13) 1 hr wow 25,130
More from around the web