Feodor

Saint Petersburg, Russia

#31 Nov 9, 2009
Nedoba wrote:
Jace wrote:
***I would make the point that while the preaching work is important as we BRING NEW ONES IN THRU THE FRONT DOOR TO SERVE JW, never do we want to fail to see our brother or sister sitting right BESIDE US IS FALLING OUT THE BACK DOOR
we can become so concern about founding new ones, we fail to help the ones who are already here trying to serve God
man do you know i had two jackass elders ask me after the talk ARE YOU ADVOCATING NOT PREACHING-
I was like YOU FOOL!!!!!!! DIDN'T you hear what i said, we have to balance the ministry with helpiing our own bro in the faith
but the wt is so Geared towards SELL MORE SELL MORE, sorta like the car dealer who sells cars with all kinds of Fancey ads , bells and whistles------but has a Piss Poor Service dept when you need to get your car fixed***
Perhaps this explanation will help those who sneer at the older ones who have been IN the WTS 30 or more years and look down their noses saying what took you so long to figure it out?
I have seen a lot of that haughty attitude here, like "you must be really stupid if it took you so many years to decide to walk away" but what they DON'T REALIZE is that we ignored all the obvious red flags and buried all the hurtful things we saw and experienced while we were being pushed aside for the healthier and more USEFUL FOR THE WTS SERVICES.
Between being around long enough to see how many doctrinal changes had been made and extra added "requirements" that Jehovah wanted placed on our shoulders... no matter how much we tried to pretend these things were not happening....they were.
How many decades of mistakes and how many years of doctrinal changes does it take for one to KNOW the WTS is not the "truth" and never was?
The more I listen the more I see that you still speaking all the same things.
You have Bible which is good example of what not to do but still everything stay the same. Same one story when you were JW, same story when you are not.
That's mean you never have a spiritual life, you don't see picture clean and you waist your time before and after.
In Jesus time people were spiritual blind, now most are also insane.
May I ask you a question - do you preach a good new ? Or did you stop ? You dedicated yourself to Jehovah and if you stop then it is mean you never preach it. You just been part of religion society which make you disappointed. You've been doing things just because you've been told to do not something that you believe. Jesus was doing Jehovah's will even alone.
Because if your believes based on Holly Spirit, personal relationship with Almighty one nobody could take it from you.
It is like parents when you grow up and learn to do more things you not idolizing your parents anymore. You just gratful for some right knowledge and experience that's it.
Because all you personal words,preaching work,connection with brothers & sisters - it is all lie.
You full of lie and now you even could think - did you ever beeing a christians.
So now you blame society - but you never read and meditate over the scriptures personaly. But it should be your personal decision, nobody could love God but you. You can't buy grace of God or borrow it from somebody else
ablebodiedman

Canada

#32 Nov 9, 2009
The most lonely period of my life was when I was still considered an accepted member of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Attending a Kingdom Hall with over 150 supposedly loving people.

I was completely misled by the promise of a spiritual paradise full of loving people being proclaimed from the platform of the Kingdom Hall.

The reality was something very different.

It was just lip service.

The congregation was being run by people who surrounded themselves with sycophants.

The demagogues ruled!

The loneliest period of my entire life.

In Christ

abe
ablebodiedman

Canada

#33 Nov 9, 2009
The early 20th century American social critic and humorist H. L. Mencken, known for his "definitions" of terms, defined a demagogue as "one who will preach doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogy

Interesting definition.
ablebodiedman

Canada

#34 Nov 9, 2009
In a modern context a sycophant (from the Greek συκ οφά ντη ς sykophántēs) is a servile person who, acting in his or her own self-interest, attempts to win favor by flattering one or more influential persons, or by saying lies against a fellow citizen for gaining a kind of profit. These actions are executed at the cost of his or her own personal pride, principles, and peer respect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophant

Another interesting definition.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#35 Nov 9, 2009
Feodor wrote:
<quoted text>

May I ask you a question - do you preach a good new ? Or did you stop ? You dedicated yourself to Jehovah and if you stop then it is mean you never preach it. You just been part of religion society which make you disappointed. You've been doing things just because you've been told to do not something that you believe. Jesus was doing Jehovah's will even alone.
I DO preach a good news. That Jesus died for ALL mankind, and putting faith in HIM, one attains to salvation. One does not NEED any organization to lead them to Christ.
Because if your believes based on Holly Spirit, personal relationship with Almighty one nobody could take it from you.
No, but the Watchtower sure tried. THEY say I left God...but I left the leadership of controlling men in Brooklyn. THEY have nothing to do wit the Holy Spirit and are NOT "spirit-directed" as they claim. I did not realize until AFTER my "dedication" that it was mistakenly made to the Watchtowergod that I saw was misleading blind sheep stolen from Jesus.
So now you blame society - but you never read and meditate over the scriptures personaly. But it should be your personal decision, nobody could love God but you. You can't buy grace of God or borrow it from somebody else
Who are you to say I do not meditate over the scriptures? Its rather presumptuous of you to make that assumption isn't it? I have no use for the self-appointed and self-aggrandized men in the WTS that demand loyalty and obedience from all of their followers. MY loyalty and obedience NOW goes towards a much higher One, the living Christ.
ablebodiedman

Canada

#36 Nov 9, 2009
Nedoba wrote:
<quoted text>
I DO preach a good news. That Jesus died for ALL mankind, and putting faith in HIM, one attains to salvation. One does not NEED any organization to lead them to Christ.
<quoted text>
No, but the Watchtower sure tried. THEY say I left God...but I left the leadership of controlling men in Brooklyn. THEY have nothing to do wit the Holy Spirit and are NOT "spirit-directed" as they claim. I did not realize until AFTER my "dedication" that it was mistakenly made to the Watchtowergod that I saw was misleading blind sheep stolen from Jesus.
<quoted text>
Who are you to say I do not meditate over the scriptures? Its rather presumptuous of you to make that assumption isn't it? I have no use for the self-appointed and self-aggrandized men in the WTS that demand loyalty and obedience from all of their followers. MY loyalty and obedience NOW goes towards a much higher One, the living Christ.
Nedoba,

That is really, really Good News!

Especially for those taken captive by the WTBTS.

I no longer feel downhearted about all the corruption caused by the Governing Body. Jehovah really will take vengance on all the injustices and for the thousands of broken families all around the world!

Isaiah 61:1-3
1 The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell good news to the meek ones. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to those taken captive and the wide opening [of the eyes] even to the prisoners; 2 to proclaim the year of goodwill on the part of Jehovah and the day of vengeance on the part of our God; to comfort all the mourning ones; 3 to assign to those mourning over Zion, to give them a headdress instead of ashes, the oil of exultation instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of the downhearted spirit; and they must be called big trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, for [him] to be beautified.

In Christ

abe
Little lamb

Australia

#37 Nov 9, 2009
"that which is crooked, can not be made straight."

Since: Nov 09

Torrington, CT

#38 Nov 9, 2009
Im gonna post a TOPIC on topix,it will say:

Loneliness-the true reason people become JWs.
JJJ

Surfers Paradise, Australia

#39 Nov 9, 2009
Even if lonlines, loniless caused by the WTBTS banning policy is the reason that some exjws come here.....what of it?

Does that change the truth of the information that is being prsented?

Since: Nov 09

Torrington, CT

#40 Nov 9, 2009
Feodor wrote:
So you finished with " cult " And you step into different world.
So you find that small number of people want you or need you. Somebody gets 0 needs.
So you spend time trying to makes friends beetwen exJW or some JW how probably has some doubts ( you trying to open their eyes on "cult ")
Because people not much intresting with JW teaching and then you will found you will don' get much love by showing them all your JW issues. The will say f'cking sect and forget other day while it is big part of your life.
So you wash all those problems like washing machine over and over.It shows you can't live further.
You just don't understand truth about this world - nodoby really wants people like JW, exJW, exgayJW because it is all the same. JW stay as group - you stay by yourself - that's the difference.
Many of you don't realise how Jwish many of you are still.
Satan will not give you much - you not his people anyway. You just do dirty work for him - you blame God, religions and someone who appeal to Jehovah. You made you choise - you dedicated your life to Creator with luck of trust and love to Him. So Satan hates everyone who belong to Jehovah or used to belong ( like Jewish nation because they keep information about Him and preJesus life).
Maybe Satan will use someone of you when whole human society will fight against God but nothing more.
Just because you start to read Bible, tryied to avoid immorality, try to be honest, friendly and loving. You show that he as god not good enough for you. He don't forgive like Jehovah. You are useless from his point of view. So he will not give you richness, "friends","love ", importancy or other things which make you a valuable person in this world. He is decision maker in this world.
That's why most of you still safering but don't see real reason.
"So your finished with " cult " and you step into a different world"

Yes a world we never knew[especially if you were born as a JW].

"So you find that a small number of people want you or need you"

This is the WT talking verbatim.Actually once i left i found out that everybody needed me.Problem was/is i have been conditioned to function within the WT org.So essentially not only has the WT told us this but has also caused this by isolation.

"then you will found you will don' get much love by showing them all your jw issues"

NO.You do get much love it is the WT leadership that gets no love from people.And i have also noticed i get sympathy.Even though "people' do not clearly understand WT doctrine.They do clearly understand it is bad though.

"So you wash all those things like a washing machine over and over.it shows you cant live further"

More like:I was all dirty washing clothing over and over to get the smell of being sprayed by a skunk[watchtower].

And as far as me living further.

The WTS teaches you cant live without them.

but you can.

"You just dont understand the truth about this world"

Agreed.Unless you are hinting to the WTS being the "Truth".
If thats the case.
Than i understand that the WTS IS NOT the "Truth".

"JW stay as a group you stay by yourself"

And i rather stay by myself as long as i am not following a GROUP of MANS interpretation of the Bible which has many holes in it.

"Many of you dont realise how jwish of you still are"

I admit to still believing in select teachings of the WTS.
I have sifted through the bad and pulled out the good.
As we all know every religion has a "bit" of truth in it.

"you blame God"

No i blame the Watchtower.

"you dedicated your life"

I never dedicated my life to the WT.My parent forced there false doctrine on me.

"You are usless from his point of view"

And you are God? LOL

[keep in mind i could not understand much of what you have said]
Have a nice day.
jace

Clinton, MD

#41 Nov 9, 2009
Nedoba wrote:
Jace wrote:
***I would make the point that while the preaching work is important as we BRING NEW ONES IN THRU THE FRONT DOOR TO SERVE JW, never do we want to fail to see our brother or sister sitting right BESIDE US IS FALLING OUT THE BACK DOOR
we can become so concern about founding new ones, we fail to help the ones who are already here trying to serve God
man do you know i had two jackass elders ask me after the talk ARE YOU ADVOCATING NOT PREACHING-
I was like YOU FOOL!!!!!!! DIDN'T you hear what i said, we have to balance the ministry with helpiing our own bro in the faith
but the wt is so Geared towards SELL MORE SELL MORE, sorta like the car dealer who sells cars with all kinds of Fancey ads , bells and whistles------but has a Piss Poor Service dept when you need to get your car fixed***
Perhaps this explanation will help those who sneer at the older ones who have been IN the WTS 30 or more years and look down their noses saying what took you so long to figure it out?
I have seen a lot of that haughty attitude here, like "you must be really stupid if it took you so many years to decide to walk away" but what they DON'T REALIZE is that we ignored all the obvious red flags and buried all the hurtful things we saw and experienced while we were being pushed aside for the healthier and more USEFUL FOR THE WTS SERVICES.
Between being around long enough to see how many doctrinal changes had been made and extra added "requirements" that Jehovah wanted placed on our shoulders... no matter how much we tried to pretend these things were not happening....they were.
How many decades of mistakes and how many years of doctrinal changes does it take for one to KNOW the WTS is not the "truth" and never was?
you make an excellent point we actually believed the wt knew what they were talking about, problem is the online JW STILL DO
Every knee shall bend

United States

#42 Nov 9, 2009
CIA Free wrote:
<quoted text>
Then how do you explain this scripture which says that the world NOW belongs to God and Christ?(Rev. 11:15)
New International Version (©1984)
The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."
----
Do you still believe that this world belongs to Satan?
I do not believe Satan is in the abyss as of yet. I think he is doing quite well on the earth right now.
People are getting more and more depraved, Wars are increasing, tempers are shorter, murder is increasing everywhere, and we still have millions starving.
Jesus has not taken control yet.
We await his return, we await the abysing of Satan and the demons.
Pat

AOL

#43 Nov 9, 2009
Every knee shall bend wrote:
<quoted text>I do not believe Satan is in the abyss as of yet. I think he is doing quite well on the earth right now.
People are getting more and more depraved, Wars are increasing, tempers are shorter, murder is increasing everywhere, and we still have millions starving.
Jesus has not taken control yet.
We await his return, we await the abysing of Satan and the demons.
AND you are right .

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#44 Nov 9, 2009
Every knee shall bend wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus has not taken control yet.
We await his return, we await the abysing of Satan and the demons.
I agree.

Ephesians 1:20-22: "which God worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. And He put all [things] under His feet, and gave Him [to][be] head over all [things] to the church."

Ephesians speaks of all the dominion of Jesus "not only in this age but also in that which is to come." Consider reading it this way: "far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the age which is to come but also in this age."

Jesus will exercise more power when He comes again. Hebrews 2 explains Psalm 8 as being ultimately fulfilled in the man Jesus. "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor" (Hebrews 2:9). Jesus is now crowned. However, verse 8 clarifies "But now we do not yet see all things put under him."

One day in the future they will all be put under his feet. Today they can choose to oppose Him. Tomorrow they will be forced under His power. Paul certainly had Psalm 110 in mind when He by the Holy Spirit penned 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. These verses make it clear that Jesus does not begin to reign when all his enemies are put under his feet. On the contrary, "He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy [that] will be destroyed [is] death."

Psalm 110:1 says "Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." 1 Corinthians 15:25 says "till He has put all enemies under His feet." Certainly both speak of the same thing.
jackie

Bethlehem, PA

#45 Nov 9, 2009
CIA Free wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus prayed that God's will be done on earth, not his kingdom.
God's will is that all men come to an accurate knowledge of the truth and be saved.
Jesus said that his kingdom would be no part of this world.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done...

on earth as it is in heaven...

Since: Sep 07

Camrose, Canada

#46 Nov 9, 2009
jace wrote:
This is really an interesting thread. I guess we all see things differently. I actually feel that many of the jw poster are actually lonely.

##########
Well Jace, there's no way of knowing how many ex-Jws are getting a kick of JW responses with their better half by their side enjoying the ride :)- and feeling the farthest thing from lonely - but I'd have to say, as a born and raised "in the truth" - and baptized JW - there's far too much on the plate of the "mature" JW to be here, notwithstanding the SLAVE'S POSITION on JW-related CHAT FORUMS, HOW THE HECK would they find the the time to spend on chat forums - let alone apostate sites like this - as they do. Notice some of the "JW" posters here have literally thousands of posts - now when I reflect on my past and let's say for argument's sake that I go back to a time when I was an active, baptized JW - but was still a minor living at home, thus making it the time when I had the LEAST responsibilities as a JW - APART from household chores and homework, which is a drop in the bucket compared to what your average JW family man/wife has in terms of household responsibilities -, when I add in all of the time that "kingdom" interests consumed like meetings, preparing for meetings, personal study, family study, field service, if the 'net had been around back then I would have had very limited time if any to be online, certainly not enough to rack up thousands of posts on an apostate site.

So when I see JW here, I can only assume that they are here at the expense of other things the "slave" says they SHOULD be doing...so WHO'S the lonely ones?

Just my two,

NorthPeace

Since: Feb 09

Zebulon, NC

#47 Nov 10, 2009
Every knee shall bend wrote:
<quoted text>I do not believe Satan is in the abyss as of yet. I think he is doing quite well on the earth right now.
People are getting more and more depraved, Wars are increasing, tempers are shorter, murder is increasing everywhere, and we still have millions starving.
Jesus has not taken control yet.
We await his return, we await the abysing of Satan and the demons.
I understand how you feel.

I was only commenting on what the scriptures have to say. Everyone has a right to form his or her own opinion about what it means.

I personally believe that the apostles Peter and Paul and all the first Christian saints are alive in heaven today. I believe they were included in the first resurrection which I believe occurred nearly 2000 ago shortly after 70 CE.

However, prior to that event, the Bible shows that the devil was captured and sealed in an abyss.(Rev. 20:1-5)

I was just thinking that if that truly is the case, then the obvious lack of truly demonic activity today makes sense. I mean, when was the last time you saw a demon-possessed person walking around like in when Jesus was on the earth? They were everywhere when you read the gospels. So where are they all now?

Just something to ponder over. And we humans are fully capable of doing a lot of bad on our on without the devil's help. But we like to blame it on him anyway.

Since: Feb 09

Zebulon, NC

#48 Nov 10, 2009
jackie wrote:
<quoted text>
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done...
on earth as it is in heaven...
John 18:36 Jesus answered:“My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”

Since: Feb 09

Zebulon, NC

#49 Nov 10, 2009
Every knee shall bend wrote:
Jesus has not taken control yet.
We await his return, we await the abysing of Satan and the demons.
Do you believe this event is still future?

Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi&#8242;cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled

8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven.

9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
----

I believe that event occurred shortly after Jesus returned to heaven. JW's believe it occurred in 1914. Regardless, the fact that the event took place is proof that Jesus HAS indeed taken full control according to this next passage:

10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death.

12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”
----

Even before leaving for heaven, note carefully Jesus words:

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying:

“All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
----

We have to ask ourselves: Did Jesus really mean what he said? Or did mean that one day in the future he would have all authority?

Your thoughts please. Thanks.
jackie

Bethlehem, PA

#50 Nov 10, 2009
CIA Free wrote:
<quoted text>
John 18:36 Jesus answered:“My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”
Yeah, his Kingdom is no part of the world as it is today, but when his day comes our world will be Jesus Kingdom and his Fathers will,
will be taking place on earth as it is in heaven.

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