Ever noticed this?
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Black

Holly Springs, NC

#1 Jan 24, 2013
Ever noticed how the story of Gideon and Saul have been combined in the Quran?

This is one of this things that kicked-off my exit from Islam.

While I agree that the former books (ot and nt) have been corrupted (as muslims say),I'm not so sure that the OT was so corrupted that those whom corrupted it would take one story and make it into two, ya know?

Anyone care to explain this? Btw, I'm not a christian either, just so you know that I'm not here to try to lead you to "christ". Nahh, I left Islaam and embraced agnosticism (and I was a Salafi!)

peace
Sayer

Cheyenne, WY

#2 Jan 25, 2013
MuhamMAD stole a lot from Scripture, then regurgitated it to others who swallowed it, then regurgitated it to others, etc.... This is how the Quran (and Ahadith) are such books of hear-say.

The Scripture ("Bible") even says of itself (the last few verses in Rev.) that it will be altered. Then, look at how the Catholic church even removed the Scripture forbiding Idolatry (they had to make their own Bible, really).

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#3 Jan 26, 2013
Black wrote:
Ever noticed how the story of Gideon and Saul have been combined in the Quran?
This is one of this things that kicked-off my exit from Islam.
While I agree that the former books (ot and nt) have been corrupted (as muslims say),I'm not so sure that the OT was so corrupted that those whom corrupted it would take one story and make it into two, ya know?
Anyone care to explain this? Btw, I'm not a christian either, just so you know that I'm not here to try to lead you to "christ". Nahh, I left Islaam and embraced agnosticism (and I was a Salafi!)
peace
Frankly, I didnt know who Gideon was and I had to see his name in the Arabic bible to get his correct middle eastern name. His name was Jed'oon. It starts with a " J".

I don't think the Qur'an and the bible tell the same story. You can compare them and tell me what you think.

Qur'an 002.249
When Talut set forth with the armies, he said: "Allah will test you at the stream: if any drinks of its water, He goes not with my army: Only those who taste not of it go with me: A mere sip out of the hand is excused." but they all drank of it, except a few. When they crossed the river,- He and the faithful ones with him,- they said: "This day We cannot cope with Goliath and his forces." but those who were convinced that they must meet Allah, said: "How oft, by Allah's will, Hath a small force vanquished a big one? Allah is with those who steadfastly persevere."

Judges 7

5 So Gideon took the men down to the water. There the Lord told him,“Separate those who lap the water with their tongues as a dog laps from those who kneel down to drink.” 6 Three hundred of them drank from cupped hands, lapping like dogs. All the rest got down on their knees to drink.

The biblical verse is crude.
PATRIOT

Carmel, ME

#4 Jan 26, 2013
Black wrote:
Ever noticed how the story of Gideon and Saul have been combined in the Quran?
This is one of this things that kicked-off my exit from Islam.
While I agree that the former books (ot and nt) have been corrupted (as muslims say),I'm not so sure that the OT was so corrupted that those whom corrupted it would take one story and make it into two, ya know?
Anyone care to explain this? Btw, I'm not a christian either, just so you know that I'm not here to try to lead you to "christ". Nahh, I left Islaam and embraced agnosticism (and I was a Salafi!)
peace
There are all kinds of thought provoking writings in the OT and NT. One of the first that caught my attention was in the Book of Samuel. It dealt with the David and Goliath event. Samuel dated when David became ruler over all Israel-he placed David entering the city of Jerusalem by the age of 30. But in the Goliath narrative, David was a youth, in his teens, under the age of 20. Yet the author of Samuel tells of David slaying Goliath with a sling, then cutting off Goliath's head and taking the head to Jerusalem.

Of course this did not happen as written, unless you accept the possibility that David carried the head around for about 10-15 years. But if you go outside of the OT and read about all of the possible meanings, the most acceptable is that the author caused the narrative to 'establish a claim on the Holy City of Jerusalem' prior to David entering that city as a king. I would also go further and propose that this event was an 'embellishment' of the man David who was anointed by God to become king of all Israel, and a great king of OT historical presentation. It is a narrative akin to the story about George Washington cutting down a cherry tree and admitting to the deed when questioned by his father. In fact it never happened, but the story was told to almost every school aged child for decades. The story was invented to 'embellish' the stature of the Founding Father image-it was to promote Washington as an "honest man".

I never put much emphasis on question mark narratives as a reason to disengage myself from the broader written meanings being portrayed in the Bible, or any other religious work. I take the whole package into consideration, accept it on "faith" value, and enjoy the journey.
noticed

Pittsfield, MA

#6 Jan 26, 2013
More on David....
You remember King David, don't you?

Israels Hero.....

( THE FIRST - MASS MURDERER - TERRORIST- OF ISRAEL )

.

1 Samuel 17:51

Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it..

==========

2 Samuel 4:12

And David commanded his young men, and they killed them and cut off their hands and feet and hanged them beside the pool at Hebron. But they took the head of Ish-bosheth and buried it in the tomb of Abner at Hebron.





1 Samuel 29

4 But the Philistine commanders were angry with Achish. They said, "Send David back. Let him return to the town you gave him. He must not go with us into battle. If he does, he'll turn against us during the fighting. In fact, he might even cut off the heads of our own men. What better way could he choose to win back his master's favor? 5 Isn't David the one the Israelites sang about when they danced? They sang,

" 'Saul has killed thousands of men.

David has killed tens of thousands.' "

.

1 Samuel 27

6 So on that day Achish gave David the town of Ziklag. It has belonged to the kings of Judah ever since that time. 7 David lived in Philistine territory for a year and four months.



9 When David would attack an area, he wouldn't leave a man or woman alive. But he would take their sheep, cattle, donkeys, camels and clothes. Then he would return to Achish.



10 Achish would ask, "Who did you attack today?" David would answer, "The people who live in the Negev Desert of Judah." Or he would answer, "The people in the Negev Desert of Jerahmeel." Or he would answer, "The people in the Negev Desert of the Kenites."



11 David wouldn't leave a man or woman alive to be brought back to Gath. He thought, "They might tell on us. They might tell Achish who we really attacked." That's what David did as long as he lived in Philistine territory.



12 Achish trusted David. He thought, "David has made himself smell very bad to his people, the Israelites. So he'll serve me forever."



1 Sam 30

23 David replied, "No, my friends. You must not hold back their share of what the Lord has given us. He has kept us safe. He has handed over to us the men who attacked Ziklag. 24 So no one will pay any attention to what you are saying. Each man who stayed with the supplies will receive the same share as each man who went down to the battle. Everyone's share will be the same."

25 David made that a law and a rule for Israel. It has been followed from that day until now.

1 Sam 31

6 Saul and his three sons died together that same day.

The man who carried his armor also died with them that day. So did all of Saul's men.

2 Sam

8 "He asked me,'Who are you?'



" 'An Amalekite,' I answered.



9 "Then he said to me,'Stand over me and kill me! I'm close to death, but I'm still alive.'



10 "So I stood over him and killed him. I did it because I knew that after he had lost the battle he would be killed anyway. So I took the crown that was on his head. I also took his armband. I've brought them here to you. You are my master."



15 Then David called for one of his men. He said, "Go! Strike him down!" So he struck the man down, and the man died. 16 That's because David had said to him, "Anything that happens to you will be your own fault. What your own mouth has spoken is a witness against you. You said,'I killed the Lord's anointed king.' "



2Sam 3: 14

14 Then David sent messengers to Saul's son Ish-Bosheth. He ordered them to say, "Give me my wife Michal. She was promised to me. I paid for her with the skins I cut off when I circumcised 100 Philistines."

And so David Takes the throne and later gives it to his son Solomon, and he loses it a short time later due to transgressions against God

Then Judah acquired it. and he too loses it after a short time.
PATRIOT

Phoenix, AZ

#7 Jan 26, 2013
PATRIOT wrote:
Ever noticed anyone what an azzzhole I am?
Hey I did notice that!

And I'm not the only one I guess.
noticed

Pittsfield, MA

#8 Jan 26, 2013
Would you like more of Gods laws?.

There are plenty more....

Instead of just 10 Commandments, there are now 613 commandments

Look into the Talmud, the Book of Laws composed by the Learned Elders

Truth About the Talmud: Judaism's Holiest Book



Now you can see how the Sanhedrin Rabbinical Priests that wrote the Talmud

arrived at their series of various translations.

And what of these?

Are they true or false?

Only faith in the book being true can assure you

.

Exodus 3...

Talking burning bush....

.And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. 3And Moses said, "I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned." 4When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see,(D) God called to him out of the bush, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am."

.

Matthew 3:9

Stones turned into humans....

.And do not presume to say to yourselves,'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

.

Numbers 22:30

Talking Donkeys

And the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?" And he said, "No."

.

Genesis 3...

Talking serpent...

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

He said to the woman, "Did God actually say,'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?
.
And many times voices just appear to people, with no being visible.
.
That only goes to show if you choose to believe it, that ALL things are possible
.
https://sites.google.com/site/911whatyoumight...
noticed

Pittsfield, MA

#9 Jan 26, 2013
And then there was the King David Hotel bombing of 1945, where Jews, the Haganah and Irgun dressed up like Arabs and blew the building up.
http://www.youtube.com/results...
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel...
That was the first 911
.
Then we have this
https://sites.google.com/site/911whatyoumight...
PATRIOT

Carmel, ME

#10 Jan 26, 2013
noticed wrote:
More on David....
You remember King David, don't you?
Israels Hero.....
( THE FIRST - MASS MURDERER - TERRORIST- OF ISRAEL )
.
1 Samuel 17:51
Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it..
==========
2 Samuel 4:12
And David commanded his young men, and they killed them and cut off their hands and feet and hanged them beside the pool at Hebron. But they took the head of Ish-bosheth and buried it in the tomb of Abner at Hebron.
1 Samuel 29
4 But the Philistine commanders were angry with Achish. They said, "Send David back. Let him return to the town you gave him. He must not go with us into battle. If he does, he'll turn against us during the fighting. In fact, he might even cut off the heads of our own men. What better way could he choose to win back his master's favor? 5 Isn't David the one the Israelites sang about when they danced? They sang,
" 'Saul has killed thousands of men.
David has killed tens of thousands.' "
.
1 Samuel 27
6 So on that day Achish gave David the town of Ziklag. It has belonged to the kings of Judah ever since that time. 7 David lived in Philistine territory for a year and four months.
9 When David would attack an area, he wouldn't leave a man or woman alive. But he would take their sheep, cattle, donkeys, camels and clothes. Then he would return to Achish.
10 Achish would ask, "Who did you attack today?" David would answer, "The people who live in the Negev Desert of Judah." Or he would answer, "The people in the Negev Desert of Jerahmeel." Or he would answer, "The people in the Negev Desert of the Kenites."
11 David wouldn't leave a man or woman alive to be brought back to Gath. He thought, "They might tell on us. They might tell Achish who we really attacked." That's what David did as long as he lived in Philistine territory.
12 Achish trusted David. He thought, "David has made himself smell very bad to his people, the Israelites. So he'll serve me forever."
1 Sam 30
23 David replied, "No, my friends. You must not hold back their share of what the Lord has given us. He has kept us safe. He has handed over to us the men who attacked Ziklag. 24 So no one will pay any attention to what you are saying. Each man who stayed with the supplies will receive the same share as each man who went down to the battle. Everyone's share will be the same."
25 David made that a law and a rule for Israel. It has been followed from that day until now.
1 Sam 31
6 Saul and his three sons died together that same day.
The man who carried his armor also died with them that day. So did all of Saul's men.
2 Sam
8 "He asked me,'Who are you?'
" 'An Amalekite,' I answered.
9 "Then he said to me,'Stand over me and kill me! I'm close to death, but I'm still alive.'
10 "So I stood over him and killed him. I did it because I knew that after he had lost the battle he would be killed anyway. So I took the crown that was on his head. I also took his armband. I've brought them here to you. You are my master."
15 Then David called for one of his men. He said, "Go! Strike him down!" So he struck the man down, and the man died. 16 That's because David had said to him, "Anything that happens to you will be your own fault. What your own mouth has spoken is a witness against you. You said,'I killed the Lord's anointed king.' "
2Sam 3: 14
Spoken like a true Jew hater and Muslim. But you are not s Biblical scholar by any stretch of your imagination.
Historical fact: warfare during the early development of mankind was brutal, savage, and bloody. Now why don't you tell us all about how the Muslim Salahadin conducted himself at the battle of Hittan in 1187, and against the Crusaders he captured?
noticed

Pittsfield, MA

#11 Jan 26, 2013
Prove it wrong with something more than just a denial and ranting.
PATRIOT

Phoenix, AZ

#12 Jan 26, 2013
noticed wrote:
Would you like more CRAP?
No thanks.

By the way the clone patriot from Austin is an azzzzhole.
PATRIOT

Carmel, ME

#13 Jan 26, 2013
PATRIOT wrote:
<quoted text>
No thanks.
By the way the clone patriot from Austin is an azzzzhole.
BTW-You being a Jew hater and Pali lover, what did the Philistines do with Saul's head after they killed him in battle? You kinda leave things out of your biased posts.
PATRIOT

Carmel, ME

#14 Jan 26, 2013
noticed wrote:
Prove it wrong with something more than just a denial and ranting.
I am not the mental defect on this forum. You are. You rant and rave-I serve up corrective responses. Your anal-retention should have alerted you to that fact by now, Tommy the teen age pimp. You done passed most of the sucking fixations stage and partly graduated to things of an anal nature. Been bitch slapped lately?
PATRIOT

Carmel, ME

#15 Jan 26, 2013
PATRIOT wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey I did notice that!
And I'm not the only one I guess.
Patriot from Vegas-isn't that the location of abbadabba? Id #? of Tommy sock puppets. Gee, I don't know what you are going to do if someone decides to get all your puppet posts "dropped". May I suggest you consider 'hari kari' as a solution?
noticed

Pittsfield, MA

#16 Jan 26, 2013
Spoken like a true moron. As if you are a Biblical scholar...only in your imagination.
And fyi I love these Jews here, like my own family, mr racist bigot.
https://sites.google.com/site/911whatyoumight...
.
And you are still a coward and a liar.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TVV...
PATRIOT

Carmel, ME

#17 Jan 26, 2013
noticed wrote:
Spoken like a true moron. As if you are a Biblical scholar...only in your imagination.
And fyi I love these Jews here, like my own family, mr racist bigot.
https://sites.google.com/site/911whatyoumight...
.
And you are still a coward and a liar.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TVV...
Hitler said he loved all the Jews he knew in the beginning. His favorite token Jew was a mayor of a major German city-until Schicklgruber changed his mind about "love thy neighbor". Tommy Schicklgruder, aka The Evil Timesten.

Prove I'm a coward and liar, Analgruber?
Patriot the liar

Pittsfield, MA

#18 Jan 26, 2013
PATRIOT wrote:
<quoted text>

Prove I'm a coward and liar, Analgruber?
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TVV...
PATRIOT

Carmel, ME

#19 Jan 26, 2013
Patriot the liar wrote:
No, not that 'old news' crap. You burned yourself therr when you got caught in a lie-a bunch of lies in fact. Then you denied all that stuff about you in the Berkshire Eagle.

You.....need....to....get....o ver....it....Buster Blue. But mentally ill people never do, do they?

“Google Operation Northwoods”

Since: Aug 10

** 9-11 was an inside job **

#20 Jan 26, 2013
2 Samuel 4:12

And David commanded his young men, and they killed them and cut off their hands and feet and hanged them beside the pool at Hebron. But they took the head of Ish-bosheth and buried it in the tomb of Abner at Hebron.

9 When David would attack an area, he wouldn't leave a man or woman alive. But he would take their sheep, cattle, donkeys, camels and clothes. Then he would return to Achish.
https://sites.google.com/site/911whatyoumight...
black

Holly Springs, NC

#22 Jan 26, 2013
Sarah ___ wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think the Qur'an and the bible tell the same story. You can compare them and tell me what you think.
.
Nahhh, it tries to tell the story but screws up. Read the stories of Gideon and Saul in the bible..and then read that which is in the Quraan...and you'll see that Muhammad--or whoever narrated the Quraan to Muhammad--mixed these stories up.

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