Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 256424 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

Frijoles

South Glastonbury, CT

#137703 Jun 20, 2012
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
And, vaults that are not waterproof in order to not impede decomposition.
What you have is about a gallon of Israeli soil next to the grave. The Rabbi takes a garden trowel and adds a scoop. Those who assist in the burial have a choice of a shovel of local soil or a scoop of Israeli soil. The cemetary crew then fills the remainder of the grave with local soil.
Some burial societies actually put the Israeli soil in the coffin.
I have been to funerals where the mourners shovel a little soil in, and the hired helped finish up, and I have been to funerals where the mourners did most of the work. I prefer the latter - it makes the situation more meaningful in my opinion.

I have also been to funerals where the mourners were prevented from filling in the grave by cemetary management because this is a UNION job (as well as prevented us from escorting the coffin into the grave as per custom). That pissed us of, but what you gonna do? The workers looked like people you dont want to be messing with..
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#137704 Jun 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
01. For the third time, I already explained the significance of sayings vs commandments in the original post- that they were followed as commandments.

02. The whole point of the discussion was not verbal jugglery (b/c I never evaded the issue of commandments) but to demonstrate to Skeptic how his unconscious acceptance of his church's language has colored his perceptions and organization of the very scripture he hopes to understand.

03. Plus Planet Septic has the hubris to make claims based on the commandments that are not even part of the commandments (they are part of the other commandments) and on top of that, his church isn’t even consistent on the articulation of the commandments are in the first place. So where to start with this mess? Logically in the beginning. Which was what I did.

04. As far as translation error, we Jews tend to avoid that, as Eric pointed out, by reading the scriptures in the original language. I understand many Muslims do the same for the Koran.
Ans.

01. If your claim that “sayings” of God are same as sayings of any one else, then let me tell you that it is you who is in the error.

Commandments simply mean that some emphasis is added on their adherence, and that is the purpose of calling them as such.

02. Church’s teachings are based on Paul’s teachings and that is a separate issue and is not the part of our discussion.

03. The problem can be solved if the verses in their original language be written and side by side their translation be mentioned, this is what Muslims do for Quran.

If Jews follow the same practice, then it is good, but Christians do not publish their books in the original manuscript but only its translation, that is why there are so many versions and so much confusion in the interpretation of verses.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#137705 Jun 20, 2012
Buford wrote:
Sin = disobeying God.

…
Ans.

So the definition of Sin is a two letter definition and you have dragged your feet for so long to paste it.!!

And this two letter definition is also defective !!

Let me clarify it:

Sin = Willful Disobedience of God

The word “Willful” is very important!!. Because disobeying any of God’ decrees of laws or Commands due to Forgetting, Ignorance, does not come into sin.

Then as you said the Sins are of two types:

A. Bigger Sins:

Also called KABIRA, these are sins which are very clearly mentioned either in the book of God or thru the lips of Prophets of God:

B. Smaller Sins:

Also called SAGHIRA, which are disobeying God in “implied” matters or reaching perfection.

C. How to nullify Sins:

Only way to nullify the affects of sins is to ask forgiveness from God and repent.

When some one has truly repented and asks God for forgiveness with his heart, God forgives the sins, both major and minor (except when it involves causing harm to some individual, in that case, the individual has to be compensated or he should agree to pardon the doer of sin).

Now you said that our prophet was a sinner (God Forbid)

Just tell me how you reached that conclusion and what are your proofs?

MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#137706 Jun 20, 2012
NQ wrote:
01. I do agree that there are futile and silly wars of words, because imho, if the qu'ran really WAS the word of God, it would be understandable and a person could attach himself to it in any understandable translation, but then the same would go for the Bible, which is why more translations in remote indigenous populations are being made.

02. Also it is why when I see someone want to argue over their cleverness or accuracy (and then keep arguing over it) re: Ten Words or Ten Commandments, I realize certain things -- such as intelligence or knowledge does not always give a person a pass into God's favor. Just as Jesus said, the harlots and babes would go before some of the more "educated" or "intelligent ones."

03. Some kindly Muslim gave me an English translation of the Koran, and it would take me years, if ever, to learn Arabic to the point of understanding it.

04. Moreover, it has been brought to my attention by ANOTHER Muslim that I would need a "teacher," someone who knows Arabic really well in the classical version to explain things to me. All that would make very difficult odds to get to really know the Koran.

05. Speaking to the well-educated and self-righteous ones, here is what Jesus said:(Matthew 21) "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you." No wonder they didn't like him anyway, and no wonder the mix-up of ideas continually.
Ans.

01. There are billions of Muslims who adhere to Quran after accepting that it is Word of God. So it is not a strange phenomenon in the word as you have mentioned.

And none of these billions claim tot have mastered the Quran and its teachings completely. The level of satisfaction depends on the curiosity and capability of individuals.

02. I agree that it is mere wastage of words to call something as Sayings of God or Commandments. I have clarified the situation in my reply to Mr. Frijoles.

03. This is a strange story you have told me regarding understanding Quran.

Why did you not ask this question about Bible? Have you totally understood NT and OT books from translations, without knowing Greek or Hebrew?

When it could be done for Bible, why cant it be done for Quran.

04. As I said that level of understanding depends upon the capability and curiosity of an individual. For day to day understanding of Quran and its message, Translation and commentaries of Islamic Scholars are more than enough.

05. However if you want to become an “Authority on Quran” and want to translate it yourself you have to learn Arabic and become proficient in it.

And what applies for Quran applies for any other book in the world.

Would you take up translating those Hebrew manuscripts of OT and Greek Manuscripts of NT books without knowing and learning Hebrew and Greek?

PS:

You did yourself a great injustice by running away from that debate on Qualities of a True Prophet.

That discussion would have solved many of your misconceptions and false believes that you have about islam, Quran and Last and Final Prophet of God.

I have requested you many times to go back to that discussion.

I see these posts of yours as some one who is lost and does not know what is the true way….you take one step forward and them ten steps backward or right or left so to say.
Buford

Saint Albans, WV

#137707 Jun 20, 2012
JOEL PASTAKIA wrote:
Logic, intuition, causation, degree of evolution of the individual's consciousness, personality, different circumstances of birth and yogic experience point towards reincarnation as the only valid explanation to explain why we are the way we are in keeping with the causal laws.
Even in your theory of everything, many thousands of human being Adam/Eve pairs had a distinct beginning in time and space, a first incarnation, as it were, before which they were "other." Your objection is to a one and done scheme, but it is just as valid as your reincarnate-until-you-get-it-r ight supposition, with its so-called "proofs" of remembrances of lives past that in truth may be nothing more than tricks being played on a susceptible mind.

People who are deceived generally don't know it, and resist the idea that they very well could be victims of forces that are quite beyond their comprehension and control.
Frijoles

South Glastonbury, CT

#137708 Jun 20, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. If your claim that “sayings” of God are same as sayings of any one else, then let me tell you that it is you who is in the error.
Commandments simply mean that some emphasis is added on their adherence, and that is the purpose of calling them as such.
02. Church’s teachings are based on Paul’s teachings and that is a separate issue and is not the part of our discussion.
03. The problem can be solved if the verses in their original language be written and side by side their translation be mentioned, this is what Muslims do for Quran.
If Jews follow the same practice, then it is good, but Christians do not publish their books in the original manuscript but only its translation, that is why there are so many versions and so much confusion in the interpretation of verses.
01 - Never said that

02 The other issue is that Planet Skeptic also appears to formulate his own ideas which are independent of his church. Other posters have noted this.

03 We go a step further. We have volumes and volumes of commentary that disects every word and phrase - and cites the earlier discussions as well, all NEXT to the verses. That is basically what Talmud is. So everything is ON the table for all to see -no secret canons.(And there is a new Arabic version of the Talmud available - so now Muslims will have no excuse to perpetuate false views of what the Talmud says)

I wholeheartedly agree that Christians should go back to the roots, instead of this multiple version stuff. I encourage serious Christians who want to understand their theology on this forum to learn Biblical Hebrew for that very reason.
SeasideSoon

Hoschton, GA

#137709 Jun 20, 2012
JOEL PASTAKIA wrote:
<quoted text>
Please don't post in my name.
MODERATORS, kindly take note.
Thank you.
Please don't post in your name.
Thank you.
Buford

Saint Albans, WV

#137710 Jun 20, 2012
MUQ wrote:
Now you said that our prophet was a sinner (God Forbid)
Just tell me how you reached that conclusion and what are your proofs?
I concluded that Mohammad was a highway robber, murderer, enslaver of women and children, rape enabler, sexual predator, idolater (he worshiped himself), and probable madman, by reading portions of the Qur'an and quotes from various and sundry Hadith accounts: Bukhari, Muslim, Ishaq and Tabari. See: http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes.Islam

My guess is that your argument is basically that Mohammad could not have been engaging in sinful conduct because he had God/Allah's permission and/or command to behave as he did when dealing with his own "enemies," which to my way of thinking is an insult bordering on blasphemy because it makes God/Allah complicit in criminal behavior.

Put another way, if Mohammad tried to do today what he did back then as a "divine mandate," he'd probably be found criminally insane and thrown in jail for life.
Buford

Saint Albans, WV

#137711 Jun 20, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
So the definition of Sin is a two letter definition and you have dragged your feet for so long to paste it.!!
You asked for a "few" words, which by definition is two, so I gave you "disobeying God."
skeptic

Bethlehem, PA

#137712 Jun 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
01 - Never said that
02 The other issue is that Planet Skeptic also appears to formulate his own ideas which are independent of his church. Other posters have noted this.
03 We go a step further. We have volumes and volumes of commentary that disects every word and phrase - and cites the earlier discussions as well, all NEXT to the verses. That is basically what Talmud is. So everything is ON the table for all to see -no secret canons.(And there is a new Arabic version of the Talmud available - so now Muslims will have no excuse to perpetuate false views of what the Talmud says)
I wholeheartedly agree that Christians should go back to the roots, instead of this multiple version stuff. I encourage serious Christians who want to understand their theology on this forum to learn Biblical Hebrew for that very reason.
You are wrong Frjoles!
The Ten Sayings are in the Covenant made with the Israelite's.
You are the one that is differing from The Torah.
They carry a grave consequence for breaking them.
You don't know your own Jewish Scripture.
Frijoles

South Glastonbury, CT

#137713 Jun 20, 2012
skeptic wrote:
<quoted text>You are wrong Frjoles!
The Ten Sayings are in the Covenant made with the Israelite's.
You are the one that is differing from The Torah.
They carry a grave consequence for breaking them.
You don't know your own Jewish Scripture.
What am I wrong about?

Please direct me to a post that contradicts that.

Or go back to your corner.
skeptic

Bethlehem, PA

#137714 Jun 20, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
So the definition of Sin is a two letter definition and you have dragged your feet for so long to paste it.!!
And this two letter definition is also defective !!
Let me clarify it:
Sin = Willful Disobedience of God
The word “Willful” is very important!!. Because disobeying any of God’ decrees of laws or Commands due to Forgetting, Ignorance, does not come into sin.
Then as you said the Sins are of two types:
A. Bigger Sins:
Also called KABIRA, these are sins which are very clearly mentioned either in the book of God or thru the lips of Prophets of God:
B. Smaller Sins:
Also called SAGHIRA, which are disobeying God in “implied” matters or reaching perfection.
C. How to nullify Sins:
Only way to nullify the affects of sins is to ask forgiveness from God and repent.
When some one has truly repented and asks God for forgiveness with his heart, God forgives the sins, both major and minor (except when it involves causing harm to some individual, in that case, the individual has to be compensated or he should agree to pardon the doer of sin).
Now you said that our prophet was a sinner (God Forbid)
Just tell me how you reached that conclusion and what are your proofs?
But Muslims do not obey Gods laws MUQ.
Muslims willfully break Gods laws under the command of Mohammed.
And Muslims live their whole life in sin against God.
Muslims present them self to world as followers of Satan.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

#137715 Jun 20, 2012
Buford wrote:
<quoted text>

Even in your theory of everything, many thousands of human being Adam/Eve pairs had a distinct beginning in time and space, a first incarnation, as it were, before which they were "other."
Prior to being projected on to the plane of matter, the psychics were gathering psychological, vital and subtle physical karma on the cosmic mind, cosmic vital and cosmic subtle physical planes and so when these psychics materialized on earth they already had distinct personalities....
skeptic

Bethlehem, PA

#137716 Jun 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
What am I wrong about?
Please direct me to a post that contradicts that.
Or go back to your corner.
You don't equate the Ten Sayings to Gods Covenant as pertaining to the Sayings as carry grave consequence for breaking them.
Exodus chapter 24:3 When Moses came to the people and related all the words and ordinances of the LORD they answered with one voice, "We will do everything that the LORD has told us."
The Israelite's all ratified the Covenant with God.
The Ten Sayings as you put it, are under the covenant with God and carry a grave consequence for breaking them, just as all the rest of Gods ordinances carry grave consequence for violating them.

You Frijoles don't express that violating Gods laws and ordinances carry grave consequences.
You falsely say the consequences are made up by Christians, and you Frijoles say Jews don't consider The Ten Sayings as having grave consequences for violating.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#137717 Jun 20, 2012
skeptic wrote:
<quoted text>You don't equate the Ten Sayings to Gods Covenant as pertaining to the Sayings as carry grave consequence for breaking them.
Exodus chapter 24:3 When Moses came to the people and related all the words and ordinances of the LORD they answered with one voice, "We will do everything that the LORD has told us."
The Israelite's all ratified the Covenant with God.
The Ten Sayings as you put it, are under the covenant with God and carry a grave consequence for breaking them, just as all the rest of Gods ordinances carry grave consequence for violating them.
You Frijoles don't express that violating Gods laws and ordinances carry grave consequences.
You falsely say the consequences are made up by Christians, and you Frijoles say Jews don't consider The Ten Sayings as having grave consequences for violating.
did Yhwh tell them they would burn in hell for breaking the commandments?
Tia

Kansas City, MO

#137718 Jun 20, 2012
MUQ wrote:
Investigators accepted, for eleven centuries, the argument that Moses wrote the first five books. After all God told Moses “Write this for a memorial in a book”(Exo 17:14).

Then Isaac ibn Yashush, a Jewish physician of a Muslim ruler in Spain in the 11th century, discovered that the list of the Edomite kings that appeared in Gen 36 mentioned kings who lived long after Moses. Ibn Yashush proposed that another one wrote this part after Moses. The response to his theory was that he was called “Isaac the blunderer” by Abraham ibn Ezra, who was a 12th century Spanish rabbi. He recommended that the book of Ibn Yashush to be burned.

Ironically, it was Ibn Ezra that discovered that it was impossible for Moses to write them. These books referred to Moses in the third person, described places that he had never seen, and used language that reflected another time and place than those of Moses. He concluded that “And if you understand, then you will recognize the truth.” Then he wrote “And he who understands will keep silent.”
interesting, Ibn Ezra was the first to doubt the tradition that Moses wrote the Torah,

"The twelve verses (Deut 34),'on the other side of Jordan'(Deut 1:5),'and Moses wrote'(Deut 31:22),'and the Canaanites were then in the land'(Gen 12:6),'on the mount of the Lord'(Gen 22:14),'his iron bed'(Deut 3:11)- and if you understand the SECRET, you will recognize the truth." (commentary on Deut 1:3)

"This verse has a SECRET, and he who understands will keep silent." (commentary on Gen 12:6)

the "secret" he intended to keep silent about, is that these are anachronisms pointing to scribes much later than Moses

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#137719 Jun 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep mising my point.
The whole enterprise of religion is strange. So if you are going to go all cognitive, then you will have to make some uncomfortable self evaluations as well, to be fair, before you start to evaluate the beliefs of others. Why is your purple elephant fantasy any more credible than your neighbors? Sorry, just because "it says so" is not a valid answer.
I appreciate your answer. Not that I agree with all you say, but I appreciate your response. Either we have faith in God or we do not. Then the questions arise, what will we have faith in? What did God say? What did he not say? Which prophet will we believe? Which rabbi(s) will we believe? What scrolls (scriptures) will we believe?
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#137720 Jun 20, 2012
JOEL PASTAKIA wrote:
Just returned from a fabulous yacht party hosted by the Singhanias. It's their yearly monsoon bash. Wow! What a fantastic setting and what a party! The party is just beginning to rock, really rock. They provided a sleek catamaran shuttle service to ferry guests from the quay at the Gateway of India opposite the luxurious Taj Mahal and Palace Hotel and back.
Looks like it was your first party of the sort.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

#137721 Jun 20, 2012
SUBJECT VERSUS OBJECT:

Fools think that the subject of one's thoughts is external.

How can the subject be external to the individualized consciousness?

The subject is the being/consciousness, the object is anything apart from it that it wishes to investigate.

How do we know anything at all about things internal or external?

Obviously, it's only through the internal acting on the internal or on an external object.

So, ultimately, the internal or the external is cognized internally in the mind.

If the mind grade of consciousness can investigate external phenomena by internal reflection or subjective analyzes, then, obviously, since nothing is known about the consciousness, mind and emotions in an objective way, thus, it stands to reason that the consciousness, instead of focusing its attention on outward objects, can also turn its concentration on itself to investigate its own depths so as to know what the gradations and phenomena of consciousness are like.

What is meant by real?
Tia

Kansas City, MO

#137722 Jun 20, 2012
anyway, the Torah of Moses (written or oral) was never preserved once he was gone,

"When the Israelites were mourning the death of Moses, three thousand halachot were already forgotten. They asked Joshua, but he too couldn't seem to remember. Those laws which were forgotten, were forgotten." (Temurah 16a)

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