Was Abraham a Jew or Christian?
Saladeen

Bristol, UK

#21 Jan 2, 2013
Lipush wrote:
<quoted text>
the name Israel refers to the ancestors.
I- also pronounced like Y, Stands for Yitzchak (Isaac) and Ya'acov
S- Stands for Sarah
R- stands for Rebecca
(A) is not being pronounced in Hebrew
E- like (A) stands for Abraham
L- stands for Lea
Only later it refers to Jacob himself.
Lipush wrote:
<quoted text>
the name Israel refers to the ancestors.
I- also pronounced like Y, Stands for Yitzchak (Isaac) and Ya'acov
S- Stands for Sarah
R- stands for Rebecca
(A) is not being pronounced in Hebrew
E- like (A) stands for Abraham
L- stands for Lea
Only later it refers to Jacob himself.
As I see you trying very hard to connect the name Israel or Judaism to the previous Prophet before Jacob and Judah but you only decieving yourself.

Let me show you your scripture becouse either your have no knowledge of the Torah or you like to innovate things in to your religion.

22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said,“Let me go, for it is daybreak.”

But Jacob replied,“I will not let you go unless you bless me.”

27 The man asked him,“What is your name?”

“Jacob,” he answered.

28 Then the man said,“Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[f] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”(Genesis 32:22)

The name Israel has nothing to do with Issaac, Sarah, Rebeca, Abraham or Lea but it refers to Jacobs ability to
Struggle with God as it is stated in your scripture. And it comes from the Jewish teachings that "Israel" literally means "one who struggled (with God)".

The name was giving to him after this incident.....Jacob had 12 sons and each of them became tribe together formed the Nation of Isreal....being the sons of Jacob (Isreal).

However you didn't get my point.

I already admitted that the concept of your religion is correct which is to "submit" to God's Law which was revealed throgh His Prophet (be it Moses in your case) however the name of your religion was innovated after Judah.

Submition to God's Law was the same way of life of all the Prophets and that's what "Islam" means in English.....it means "Submition (to God's Law)"

And as I said before that even the Jews of Madinah liked the concept and teaching of Islam...they just didn't like the man (Muhammad) due to his nationality.

“Proud Southerner”

Since: May 07

Israel, betach b'HaShem!

#22 Jan 2, 2013
No need to quote my post twice.

“Proud Southerner”

Since: May 07

Israel, betach b'HaShem!

#23 Jan 2, 2013
Saladeen wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
As I see you trying very hard to connect the name Israel or Judaism to the previous Prophet before Jacob and Judah but you only decieving yourself.
Let me show you your scripture becouse either your have no knowledge of the Torah or you like to innovate things in to your religion.
22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said,“Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied,“I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him,“What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said,“Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[f] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”(Genesis 32:22)
The name Israel has nothing to do with Issaac, Sarah, Rebeca, Abraham or Lea but it refers to Jacobs ability to
Struggle with God as it is stated in your scripture. And it comes from the Jewish teachings that "Israel" literally means "one who struggled (with God)".
The name was giving to him after this incident.....Jacob had 12 sons and each of them became tribe together formed the Nation of Isreal....being the sons of Jacob (Isreal).
However you didn't get my point.
I already admitted that the concept of your religion is correct which is to "submit" to God's Law which was revealed throgh His Prophet (be it Moses in your case) however the name of your religion was innovated after Judah.
Submition to God's Law was the same way of life of all the Prophets and that's what "Islam" means in English.....it means "Submition (to God's Law)"
And as I said before that even the Jews of Madinah liked the concept and teaching of Islam...they just didn't like the man (Muhammad) due to his nationality.
I didn't say that Israel doesn't refer to Jabob, not not only as a referesion to Jacob.

Of couse Muhammad's wasnt "liked" due to his nationality. He was not Jewish, and those who are not Jews cannot be prophets. It is written in the Torah. Anyone following a non Jewish 'prophet' is following a false prophet and false message. In the Tanakh it is said that only an Israelite can be a true prophet. Muhammad tried to convey message of Islam, but the Jews, the righteous, refused to forsake the religion of the God of Israel. Muhammad for some reason, saw it as a war declaration. Muslims still believe it is.

Since: Jun 11

Misr, Egypt

#24 Jan 3, 2013
Lipush wrote:
<quoted text>
Abraham was the first to believe in the God of Israel, so is considered the first Jew. Niether Islam nor Christianity existed then, so obviously he was not Christian nor Muslim
nor a jew

their was nothing its name god of israel or israel in that time

spread more lies

of course according to my faith i believe he is a muslim

“Proud Southerner”

Since: May 07

Israel, betach b'HaShem!

#25 Jan 3, 2013
marine_engineer_h0ssam wrote:
<quoted text>
nor a jew
their was nothing its name god of israel or israel in that time
spread more lies
of course according to my faith i believe he is a muslim
And according to my faith saying he was Muslim is rubbish and you're the one telling lies.

So we're left wondering. No one says yur view is better than mine.

“Proud Southerner”

Since: May 07

Israel, betach b'HaShem!

#26 Jan 3, 2013
marine_engineer_h0ssam wrote:
<quoted text>
their was nothing its name god of israel or israel in that time
theere was nothing its name God of Islam or Islam in that time.

There, now the sentence is correct.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#27 Jan 4, 2013
Egyptian_lad wrote:
<quoted text> Thats your jewish propaganda
Adrees was not israeli
Noah was not israeli
Hud was not israeli
salah was not israeli
yunus was not israeli
Ayoub was not israeli
you want more?
Of course your jewish rabbies removed these prophets from original torah, because they came before abraham
there were numerous prophets before prophet abraham
you believe the world is all jewish.
you believe humans were on earth since only 7000 years old ( thats why your western archaeologists fabricated ancient egyptian history and gave fake history for egypt).
lol no surprise, believe what you want
I hope you dont mind me asking, just how long have you been an idiot?

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#28 Jan 4, 2013
marine_engineer_h0ssam wrote:
<quoted text>
nor a jew
their was nothing its name god of israel or israel in that time
spread more lies
of course according to my faith i believe he is a muslim
How could Abraham have been a muslim? he worshiped the true God Jehovah, not the one mo made up allah.
Saladeen

Bristol, UK

#29 Jan 5, 2013
Lipush wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say that Israel doesn't refer to Jabob, not not only as a referesion to Jacob.
Of couse Muhammad's wasnt "liked" due to his nationality. He was not Jewish, and those who are not Jews cannot be prophets. It is written in the Torah. Anyone following a non Jewish 'prophet' is following a false prophet and false message. In the Tanakh it is said that only an Israelite can be a true prophet. Muhammad tried to convey message of Islam, but the Jews, the righteous, refused to forsake the religion of the God of Israel. Muhammad for some reason, saw it as a war declaration. Muslims still believe it is.
Please give me the references from Torah.....!

.....don't forget that actually none of the prophets before Jacob were Israelites.....Abraham was Babilonian.

Israel is only a nation.....it is not a nation that was chosen by God by the people of Moses who followed his message.

You modern Jews twisted many things.....so now every Jew by nationality is from among the chosen people who
Earn paradise?...even if he totally neglects the Law?.......rather the chosen people were those who abide by the Law and only at the time of Moses.....just like now the only chosen people are those who follow the last reveletion of God and that is Islam (Submition to God) the religion of Adam, Seth, Noah, Lut, Abraham, Ismael, Issacc, Moses, Jacob.....John the Baptist, Jesus and finally Muhammad who came as last Prophet to direct the people back to the true religion of God of all mankind including Israel.

Please watch this link below where a real Jew Schollar admits it himself:

http://m.youtube.com/watch...
Saladeen

Bristol, UK

#30 Jan 5, 2013
taffman wrote:
<quoted text>
How could Abraham have been a muslim? he worshiped the true God Jehovah, not the one mo made up allah.
There is no name Jehowah for God....why don't you ask a Jewish person.

The initials revealed to Moses in Old Testament are JHWH but none knows how to pronouns it
And indeed for the Jews these Initails are so secret that they even don't say it....
.....so all you Christians did was that you innovated a name for God.

We Muslims believe that all the unic attrebutes of God are His names...such as "the All Knowing"...."All Seeing" ...He doesn't have only one name...and Allah is one of them witch means (the Highest)

Since: Jun 11

Misr, Egypt

#31 Jan 6, 2013
Lipush wrote:
<quoted text>
And according to my faith saying he was Muslim is rubbish and you're the one telling lies.
So we're left wondering. No one says yur view is better than mine.
i know this you didn't say something new

Since: Jun 11

Misr, Egypt

#32 Jan 6, 2013
taffman wrote:
<quoted text>
How could Abraham have been a muslim? he worshiped the true God Jehovah, not the one mo made up allah.
Genesis 22:14

So Abraham called that place Jehovah

while this name called only after building the temple about 450 years after the death of Moses

that mean that this genesis verse even prophet Moses didn't write it lmao someone added it

more about your corrupted bible

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T9F...

btw Allah is something close to Jehovah in Hebrew but in arabic

even Arab Christians and Jews use that name

Paul WV

Beckley, WV

#33 Jan 6, 2013
marine_engineer_h0ssam wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis 22:14
So Abraham called that place Jehovah
while this name called only after building the temple about 450 years after the death of Moses
that mean that this genesis verse even prophet Moses didn't write it lmao someone added it
more about your corrupted bible
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T9F...
btw Allah is something close to Jehovah in Hebrew but in arabic
even Arab Christians and Jews use that name
allah is the moon god and not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There is nothing is the Holy Bible to support mohammad's claims.

Since: Jun 11

Misr, Egypt

#34 Jan 6, 2013
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
allah is the moon god and not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There is nothing is the Holy Bible to support mohammad's claims.
allah = god in arabic that name uses by arab christians and jews check it and solve your ignorance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#35 Jan 6, 2013
marine_engineer_h0ssam wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis 22:14
So Abraham called that place Jehovah
while this name called only after building the temple about 450 years after the death of Moses
that mean that this genesis verse even prophet Moses didn't write it lmao someone added it
more about your corrupted bible
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T9F...
btw Allah is something close to Jehovah in Hebrew but in arabic
even Arab Christians and Jews use that name
It is customary when you quote something, you quote it in full. Gen 22:14 says...and Abraham began to call the name of the place Jehovah jirah, this is why it is customary to say to day, In the mountain of Jehovah it will be provided.
the name of Jehovah had been used by Abraham, Issac and Jacob many years before the time of Moses. You really need to reserch more. Jehovahs name is used through out the Bible, and notice we use Gods name not his title which is what mohamed gave him,,,,allah> most high. Interestingly most false religions tend to use titles eg Baal>lord, rather than name their gods.
It is easy to point a finger at the Bible and call it corrupt, it gives you an easy way out so you can keep doing all the disgusting things that mohamed allows.

Since: Jun 11

Cairo, Egypt

#36 Jan 6, 2013
taffman wrote:
<quoted text>
It is customary when you quote something, you quote it in full. Gen 22:14 says...and Abraham began to call the name of the place Jehovah jirah, this is why it is customary to say to day, In the mountain of Jehovah it will be provided.
the name of Jehovah had been used by Abraham, Issac and Jacob many years before the time of Moses. You really need to reserch more. Jehovahs name is used through out the Bible, and notice we use Gods name not his title which is what mohamed gave him,,,,allah> most high. Interestingly most false religions tend to use titles eg Baal>lord, rather than name their gods.
It is easy to point a finger at the Bible and call it corrupt, it gives you an easy way out so you can keep doing all the disgusting things that mohamed allows.
that obvious ignorance or you lie and change the facts

i think you are the one who need to read

Exodus 6:3

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

its clear god never got called Jehovah in the time of Abraham and Isaac. the word Jehovah called for a name of a mountain in Abraham time.

Jehovah name used for god only after building the temple about 450 year about the death of prophet Moses. which that the verse in genesis is corrupted some one added it.

all translation of bible in arabic used the word allah

even the first sentence in your bible in arabic is

Genesis 1

In the beginning Allah created the heaven and the earth.

later.
Paul WV

Beckley, WV

#37 Jan 6, 2013
marine_engineer_h0ssam wrote:
<quoted text>
allah = god in arabic that name uses by arab christians and jews check it and solve your ignorance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
allah is the moon god; the chief god of the 360 arab gods.
Rogery

Netherlands

#38 Jan 6, 2013
marine_engineer_h0ssam wrote:
that obvious ignorance or you lie and change the facts
i think you are the one who need to read
Let me freshen up your memory, liar:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TSM...

""""" this is my last post on topix islam forum i will be no longer response about any post here . in the past i got enough time to post here and waste some time but i will no longer have enough time to post to crap people anymore as i'm busy with life as hell as i soon maybe will do my military service as a marine engineer officer in the army and i still finishing some studies.""" ""

YOU are a loser, besides being a liar..
You have always been and you'll always be.
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#39 Jan 6, 2013
Of course the filthy muslims have to lay claim to the icons of the other major religions. Their incoherent screed lacks any substance of its own. Islam cannot stand on its own merits. Its brain-dead followers have to be coerced. Islam is rubbish from top to bottom. Muhammad was not a "prophet", he was a sociopath. If he were alive today, he would be serving a life sentence in an institution for the criminally insane.

“M.A....Rise”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#41 Jan 6, 2013
Lipush wrote:
<quoted text>
the name Israel refers to the ancestors.
I- also pronounced like Y, Stands for Yitzchak (Isaac) and Ya'acov
S- Stands for Sarah
R- stands for Rebecca
(A) is not being pronounced in Hebrew
E- like (A) stands for Abraham
L- stands for Lea
Only later it refers to Jacob himself.
what a great interpretation......Made in Zionism tales lol

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