'Sperm' comes from the back?- What Is...

'Sperm' comes from the back?- What Islam taught the world

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Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#1 Nov 2, 2008
Let 'commitment' be the key word of this my presentation. Notice where the word occurs, that shall be the end of it. Where exactly the cells make a commitment.

Here is the debated Quranic verse:

" Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs Quran 86:5-7:"

If a coconut fell from a tree in Saudi Arabia. And was washed into the sea, and floated to Maryland, and germinated into a coconut tree. Where is the best place to say the coconut tree proceeded from? Or we may ask, where an offspring of a sperm donor bank proceeded from, the bank that processed and emitted him or the initial human donor.

So the million dollar question is- Where is it rightful to say as scientists that Sperm proceeds from? The testes where the Spermatogonia germinate into sperm or the place between the backbone and ribs on the posterior abdominal wall where the spermatogonia arise in the fetus.

The simple way to answer this is to ask if sperm is the beginning/the reasonable start point or spermatogonia is the beginning. If you choose sperm as your beginning, then read no further, cuz you are correct.

If you choose that the primordial germ cell Spermatogonia are the beginning of new life, and view 'sperm' as just one of many stages(like- spermatids, primary spermatocytes and the rest) from when cells make a commitment to proceed to being originators of a new life and never anything else, then, we go ahead to ask the question I noticed you intelligently asked above,-'That you assumed, males being different from females, our spermatogonia are manufactured afresh later in life, unlike women where the eggs/oogonia are all pre-made from the fetal stage'. Because you know that the testes is still at that spot on the back in the fetus till birth.

Here we look for help-

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j06mh4717...

Electron microscopic studies of the testis were performed on 12 human embryos and fetuses between 9 and 30 weeks post conception. According to their ultrastructural features, the fetal germ cells could be divided into the following three stages of differentiation: 1) gonocytes, 2) intermediate cells, and 3) fetal spermatogonia.......
With the maturation of the fetus, the number of gonocytes was found to decrease, whereas the number of fetal spermatogonia increased.

From the above we see that spermatogonia are formed/present in the embryo.

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#2 Nov 2, 2008
Now these spermatogonia, called Ap spermatogonia later produce more spermatogonia in the adult when they are outside the abdomen, in the scrotum, as we see here-

----
http://www.andrologysociety.com/resources/han...

The spermatogonia are immature germinal cells located at the base of the seminiferous epithelium. In man, there are three types of spermatogonia: the pale type A spermatogonia or Ap, the dark type A spermatogonia or Ad, and the type B spermatogonia. The Ap spermatogonia divide by mitosis and give rise either to new type Ap cells or to the more differentiated type B spermatogonia. Thus, the Ap cells may be thought of as self-renewing stem cells
-----

So from this I believe it is left for us to choose whether we feel we came from Ap spermatogonia which proceeded from that spot on the fetus' back, between his spine bone and rib, or whether we came from new Ap spermatogonia which were daughter cells of promordial germinal spermatogonia which proceeded from that spot between the Back bone and rib.

It's up to you. I hope I didn't here bend Quran, but only expanded Science. God bless you as you read.

Image of testes in fetus demonstrating its descent from the posterior abdominal wall between the spine bone and rib to the scrotum-

http://biology.ucf.edu/~logiudice/zoo3713/Fil...

To prove my own choice of our origin, we must prove that fetal primordial germ cells are capable of differentiating into sperm. I thought this will be a field of later research, but surprisingly I found it has actually been studied and affirmed.-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez...
---
Transplantation of fetal germ cells into the seminiferous tubules of adult testis showed that donor germ cells, at 14.5 days postcoitum (dpc), were able to initiate spermatogenesis in the adult recipient seminiferous tubules, whereas no germ cell differentiation was observed in the transplantation of 12.5-dpc germ cells.
These results indicate that the "commitment" of fetal germ cells to differentiate into spermatogonial stem cells initiates between embryonic days 12.5 and 14.5
When they still are at that spot between the rib and back bone. And that was actually the entire importance of this ncbi pubmed research.

To Allah/Ellah/Elohim/YaHuwah be the glory.
http:AgainstScience.com

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3 Nov 2, 2008
Semen originates from glands around the bladder.
Also for Sperm to grow it has to be about 4oC colder than body temperature. It definitely comes from the testis.

The idea that sperm comes from near the kidneys originated in Ancient Greece.

During pregnancy, the sexual organs begin to form high up in the chest near the kidneys, but then drop down to their final position. But they are still attached to their original position by a blood vessel and nerve.
Because of this it was believed semen formed high up and flowed down this chord. Only later was it discovered that sperm formed in the testis.

So the Qur'an is just repeating a common mistake of that time.

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#4 Nov 2, 2008
Did you read the scientific facts I posted above, or you are rather repeating a common ignoramus error.:)

Semen with mature sperm is only ejected from the testis, but differentiates and commits to the 'new individual potential'(spermatoginia) at that point mentioned in the Quran in the back (btw the ribs and spine) before the testis descends from there into the scrotum in the fetus.

Please ask a scientist to explain this to you.

Peace and love.

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#5 Nov 2, 2008
@ Igor,

Please google and contrast these terms:

Semen
Sperm
Spermatogonia
Germ cell/totipotent/pluripotent
Differentiated cell/committed cell

As relates to 'differentiation','life','orig in', and 'fertilization'.

Thank you

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#6 Nov 2, 2008
Where are sperm made?

The male reproductive tract is made up of the testes, a system of ducts (tubes) and other glands opening into the ducts. The testes (testis, singular) are a pair of egg-shaped (ovoid) glands (each 15 to 35 ml in volume) that are suspended in the scrotum. The testes are needed for the normal functioning of the male reproductive system. The testes have two related but separate roles:

* Production of sperm.
* Production of the male sex hormone, testosterone.

Before birth, the developing testes move down from the abdomen into the scrotum. Successful descent of the testes is important for fertility as a cooler temperature in the scrotum is needed for sperm production and normal testicular function. In humans, this location seems important by keeping the testes between 3 to 5oC below normal body temperature.

Sperm are made in the testes, in a number of small, tightly packed, fine tubes called seminiferous tubules. These tubules have a total length of 150 metres. Between the seminiferous tubules lie another cell type, Leydig cells, which produce the male sex hormone, testosterone.

http://www.andrologyaustralia.org/pageContent...

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#7 Nov 2, 2008
You guys are making a fundamental unfortunate error.

Quran did not say-'sperm'.
Quran said- Our new existence 'proceeds from'.

Please carefully read all I took the pain to post above.

Sperm made in the testes starts as a new individual in the back BEFORE descent as: Spermatogonia. The spermatogonia is already committed and no longer has the construct of the man. It is the new individual, a differentiated germ cell.

This descends in the testis, and them becomes spermatid and then sperm, the final transport form.

Please take your time to digest and verify this information.

Peace and love.

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#8 Nov 2, 2008
AgainstScienceCom wrote:
You guys are making a fundamental unfortunate error.
Quran did not say-'sperm'.
Quran said- Our new existence 'proceeds from'.
Please carefully read all I took the pain to post above.
Sperm made in the testes starts as a new individual in the back BEFORE descent as: Spermatogonia. The spermatogonia is already committed and no longer has the construct of the man. It is the new individual, a differentiated germ cell.
This descends in the testis, and them becomes spermatid and then sperm, the final transport form.
Please take your time to digest and verify this information.
Peace and love.
You ask us to read what you have posted. I did .. hence what I posted.

Dont bother to try and justify the quran cause it is wrong.

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#9 Nov 2, 2008
AussieChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
You ask us to read what you have posted. I did .. hence what I posted.
Dont bother to try and justify the quran cause it is wrong.
You definitely do not yet have adequate scientific understanding on this particular topic.

Spermatogonia(early/pre-sperm) originates from the back of the fetus. And that is a simple, clear fact.
Source wrote:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j06mh4717...
Electron microscopic studies of the testis were performed on 12 human embryos and fetuses between 9 and 30 weeks post conception...and 3) fetal spermatogonia.......
With the maturation of the fetus, the number of gonocytes was found to decrease, whereas the number of fetal spermatogonia increased.
And at the stage of this study, the testes was IN THE BACK.

Thanks
peace, love and understanding. ;)

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#10 Nov 2, 2008
And for the people interested in learning this truth. Here again I post an image to show exactly WHERE THE TESTES IS IN THE FETUS AT 9-30 WEEKS, the age which was studied at by above scientists-

Follow link: http://biology.ucf.edu/~logiudice/zoo3713/Fil...

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#11 Nov 2, 2008
AgainstScienceCom wrote:
<quoted text>
You definitely do not yet have adequate scientific understanding on this particular topic.
Spermatogonia(early/pre-sperm) originates from the back of the fetus. And that is a simple, clear fact.
<quoted text>
And at the stage of this study, the testes was IN THE BACK.
Thanks
peace, love and understanding. ;)
You say I do not have enuf adequate scientific understanding .. oh please ...

It is you that started the topic with links to try and back up what you have said.
I found a w/site .. that explains it so well yet as usual you dont like to read the FACTS .. rather try and justify a book that was from Satan.

Just like the moon split in 2 .. or that the moon sets in a pool of muddy water etc etc etc.

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#12 Nov 2, 2008
Posting a separate issue from a science site does not mean you understand what you are posting, or that what you posted refutes the simple facts being discussed.

Any way since I see you are not reading this, I will waste no more effort. This is sort of intellectually degrading.

Peace, love and understanding.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#14 Nov 3, 2008
AgainstScienceCom wrote:
Did you read the scientific facts I posted above, or you are rather repeating a common ignoramus error.:)
Semen with mature sperm is only ejected from the testis, but differentiates and commits to the 'new individual potential'(spermatoginia) at that point mentioned in the Quran in the back (btw the ribs and spine) before the testis descends from there into the scrotum in the fetus.
Please ask a scientist to explain this to you.
Peace and love.
" Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs Quran 86:5-7:"

Note the words "from a drop emitted".

The verse is not referring to where the cells which make sperm origionally formed, but where the drop of semen emitted was made.

You are trying to twist the words of the Quran to fit in with science.

But we are not created from a drop of anything but rather one sperm and one egg.
Where's the egg?
AgainstScienceCo m

New York, NY

#15 Nov 3, 2008
Drop emitted(stop)Then- Procceding from.

Procceding= where it starts from/origin.

I was attacked in NY by an Arab intruder to my job. proceeding from the camps of Afghan.

The nerves(control) comes from the back/Afghan, the blood/finance comes from same, the sperm/attacker proceeds from same, before it is emitted/flown in from the testes/airport.

Make sense?
AgainstScienceCo m

New York, NY

#16 Nov 3, 2008
U see, if u were to take it frankly the way u appear to, then u will say it comes from the tip of the Penis and not even the testis or back as Quran said.

But u subscribe to scrotal-testis as a scewed selection. It's either tip of dick or fetal testis at back.

We both agree sperm(spermatogonia) originate at the back(fetal-testis location) and are emitted from the tip of the dick(not scrotum-testis). Yes?

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#17 Nov 3, 2008
AgainstScienceCom wrote:
Drop emitted(stop)Then- Procceding from.
Procceding= where it starts from/origin.
I was attacked in NY by an Arab intruder to my job. proceeding from the camps of Afghan.
The nerves(control) comes from the back/Afghan, the blood/finance comes from same, the sperm/attacker proceeds from same, before it is emitted/flown in from the testes/airport.
Make sense?
The 'drop that is emitted' proceeds from the various glands which create it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_reproductiv... (human)
"During ejaculation, sperm leaves the penis in a fluid called seminal fluid. This fluid is produced by 3 types of glands, the seminal vesicles, the prostate gland, and Cowper's glands (bulbourethral glands). Each component of a seminal fluid has a particular function. Sperm are more viable in a basic solution, so seminal fluid has a slightly basic pH. Seminal fluid also acts as an energy source for the sperm, and contains chemicals that cause the uterus to contract."

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#18 Nov 3, 2008
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
The 'drop that is emitted' proceeds from the various glands which create it.
..
That's wikipedia, lay mans point of view/kindergarten info. The fluids are not absolutely essential in copulation, and are not expected to be the relevant parts of the drop whose origin will be described by such a scientific postgrad level Book=Quran.

The drop contains fluids from areas in ur quote.
And sperm, originating as spermatogonia from the fetus' back, between the spine and ribs.

And that is what u will hear in a thorough professorial medical lecture. Now I do understand ur limiting ur expectations of the thoroughness of Islamic guidance. It is understandable but as u see more deep scientific quranic descriptions u will soon increase ur standard and appreciate these wonders.
Just Me

Diablo, CA

#19 Nov 3, 2008
AgainstScienceCom wrote:
<quoted text>
That's wikipedia, lay mans point of view/kindergarten info....
wikiislam is probably more accurate:

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Qur 'an_and_Semen_Production

Since: Nov 08

New York, NY

#20 Nov 3, 2008
Just Me wrote:
<quoted text>
wikiislam is probably more accurate:
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Qur 'an_and_Semen_Production
?

I don't do wikis. Let's discuss. And u may go ask a scientist.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#21 Nov 3, 2008
AgainstScienceCom wrote:
<quoted text>
?
I don't do wikis. Let's discuss. And u may go ask a scientist.
Hello AgainstScienceCom,

Your website is being discussed here:
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php...

Would you please care to join us there also.

Thanks n regards,
AJ

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