Good Bye Mohammed
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Since: Apr 12

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#1 Jan 25, 2013
What the Modern Martyr Should Know:

Seventy-two Grapes and Not a Single Virgin

The New Picture of Islam

This is the English version of the book "Good Bye Mohammed"

WHAT THE MODERN MARTYR SHOULD KNOW is not a religious book. It is a book about the historical foundations of Islam, especially focussing on its first 300 years. The book deals with the incredible fact that the well-known and well-documented historical data of the 7th and 8th centuries---- the time period of the creation and spreading of Islam---- are in total contradiction to Islamic tradition. In contemporary sources of that time, both Muslim and non-Muslim, there is no mentioning of a prophet from the desert who founded a new religion called Islam.

And that is a most astonishing fact, considering that the time period of the alleged creation of Islam is well-known for the intense religious discussions that took place. Thus, the total lack of information regarding a newly founded religion would simply be implausible. In addition, historic sources contain absolutely no references to a new religion called Islam conquering both half of the Byzantium Empire and the entire territory of Persia. How can this discrepancy of historic fact vs. Islamic tradition be expained ?

Even Islamic sources were 200 years late in first mentioning their prophet.
In fact, most of the literature about the prophet was produced even 300 years after his alleged occurrence. Lastly, how can the fact that the Qur'an has its roots in pre-Mohammedan times be brought into line with Islamic tradition?

What sense does it make to discuss a book or a person when one does not even know the underlying facts? This book presents the facts that are essential for anyone who wants to join in the discussion on Islam.

http://www.islamfacts.info/Islamfacts/English...

German version has more info, just google-translate it:

http://www.islamfacts.info/Islamfacts/Start.h...
ARAB WARRIOR

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#3 Jan 25, 2013
We are destined to rule over the whole world. The Prophet(pbuh) is our inspiration, Allah(swat) our protector and guide. You are the enemies of truth.
You will be vanquished.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#4 Jan 25, 2013
ARAB WARRIOR wrote:
We are destined to rule over the whole world. The Prophet(pbuh) is our inspiration, Allah(swat) our protector and guide. You are the enemies of truth.
You will be vanquished.
That is the 7th century thinking, today more muslims are saying Good Bye to Muhammad than ever before in the entire history of Islam thanks to modern information networks. Islam only spreads by birth, but even that is slowing down according to statistics. Now step aside and lets translate the "Start" page of the german edition of the web page:

http://www.islamfacts.info/Islamfacts/Start.h...

On this website is about the history of Islam, and especially since the first three centuries. It is the time where in the traditional representation of Muhammad founded Islam and religion in a short time spread over half of the world at that time.

Modern historical research sees this time very different. There are no sources of Islamic or non-Islamic in the 6th or 7 Century that would report a prophet Mohammed and a religion called Islam. All sources come exclusively from later centuries. Contemporary sources do not know the Prophet and his religion.

Recent research from various disciplines demonstrate the known Islamic representations as edification and justification literature of later centuries. They demonstrate further that the original language of the Koran, the Arabic Quran was claimed, and that significant portions of the Koran before Muhammad were in circulation. The later transferred into Arabic texts have some grotesque mistranslation - such as the alleged bid headscarf.

This page is dedicated to the historical-critical research. It can not be that scientific methods should not be applied to Islam, but religious legends, must be felt as a kind of decency towards Muslims, as historical truth. This is namely practice.

Whom the subject was interested in the book Good Bye Mohammed verwiesen.Das book represents the state of the research and draws a picture of the emergence of Islam, as it presents itself according to current knowledge.

“Blessed on Earth n under It.”

Since: Oct 10

Saudi Arabia

#5 Jan 25, 2013
What you 'RUSTY' and people like you Should know is that Islam is the solution for this miserable world's problems. Islam is the answer. Islam will bring peace , love and happiness to this world. And despite every thing, I'm very optimistic that this will happen very very soon insha' Allah.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#6 Jan 25, 2013
Translated:

http://www.islamfacts.info/Islamfacts/Der_Kor...

The Quran in fact

According to the Islamic view of the Koran comes from God himself, by the Archangel Gabriel to Muhammad in portions passed, who announced the individual surahs over a period of 23 years.

Muhammad never saw the Koran, he was created only under his successor.

Under the third Othman successor (supposedly 644 to 656) were written statements and summarized the existing notes for the first time in a book: the so-called "Othmanische Koran". All other versions were burned.

According to scientific knowledge of the Koran rooted, long before Muhammad, in Aramaic liturgical books of Arab Christians. The first key to the origin of the Qur'an is in the word itself: quran is Aramaic, as sura (Sura) and aya (verse). The first known Qur'an fragments date from the early 8th Century, the first complete Quran from the late 9th century. It formed in the course of time many variants Koran.

The day for the majority of Muslims (Sunni) is the official version. Cairo from 1924 This version is to go back to the Othmanischen Koran, there proof of a Koran Othmanischen no. The Shiites and others recognize the Cairo Koran as the only binding.

Here you will find information about the oldest MANUSCRIPTS of the Koran ( www.islamfacts.info/Islamfacts/Handschriften.... ).

According to divine testimony and conviction of every Muslim, the Koran is written in "pure Arabic". But teem within only as of foreign words such as logos (Greek), dschehenna (Persian) or restorations (Hebrew). Almost every Muslim can recite the Quran, but almost none can read it, understand of the question.(They do, on occasion, a sample!). The people in the Arab countries speak their specific slang, about Moroccan, Egyptian, Yemeni, Arab gulf. These dialects can be very different. "Modern Standard Arabic" is the official Arabic, but which is understood by the man on the street and talked only very imperfectly. Different again is the Arabic of the Koran, which without adequate training can not be understood. The vast majority of Arabs can not read their own holy book, not to mention Moroccans Algerieren, Indonesians, Turks, etc.. The content is explained by prayer leaders.

Typical of the Koran are the many different interpretations, there are different ways of "interpretation", some passages are interpreted differently dozen times. There are two reasons:

First, the early manuscripts consisted only of a consonant frame ("rasm"), vowels were made up of experience, with some consonants were clearly 3-4. Today's standard reading glasses (via points and among the characters, vowels) were only subsequently developed, with numerous mistakes, as you know now. What does about Lst? Load, lust, deceit? Or rest, rust, Rist, rest? Even hard or only almost?

Take the following sentence (By Andreas Goetze borrowed): "You can use the projector here only briefly." In the system of early manuscripts it looks like this: mntrfnppmhrnrkrzpnzpntzn. Then comes the exact language skills lost, might get a different meaning, for example :: "We must harness the networks here only briefly" As difficult as does a subsequent clarification of the vowels and some consonants.

Second, the original language of the Qur'an was not Arabic Koran (which was in the 10th Jh.definiert) but a mixed Arab-Aramaic language written in Aramaic ("Garschuni"). This was in the later text edits (including al-Tabari to 900) not fully understood and revealed some strange interpretations.

... continue next page:

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7 Jan 25, 2013
... continued from last post:

Example: The official Qur'an speaks of the "Ashab al-Aykah" the "thicket residents" what can not make sense of the Koran scholar. However, says the Koran Sanaaer of "Laykah" where the official Koran "al-Aykah" says. How Dr.Puin proves the unofficial version of Sanaa is right, she says " Laykah " , namely the Ptolemaic Rotmeerhafen Leuke Kome , and which in turn makes sense. So instead of a city jungle. There are hundreds of examples, including the non-existent in the Koran headscarf (the Aramaic word CHIMAR ("belt") was read out by Tabari as a headscarf) falls into this category. It is estimated that about 25% of the Quran is completely wrong about. The scientific research Quran is still very young, you can expect many surprises.

The Quran was originally a "lectionary" of Arab Christians, so a liturgical writing with excerpts from the writings (ie Bible and Gospels) and not "the Scripture" itself, which it is today.

That the Qur'an says several times myself (eg 41:3: "A script that we have transferred to an Arabic reading. ") It takes several times to events in the Bible reference, without describing them, because they are assumed to be known. About Quran 26:176-177, which is from the fate of Lut (Lot of biblical) warned, without going into details.

In numerous places the Koran contradicts itself, as if the wine as a gift from God praises (Sura 16:67), elsewhere (Sura 2: 219) prohibits the wine, but then again (Sura 47: 15) the faithful wine Paradise promises ("rivers of water, milk and wine, delicious to the drinkers").

Similarly, the treatment infidel, ranging from murder to tax collection.

As such contradictions and errors in a divine, perfect font can be envisaged?

For modern research is reflected in the contradictions of the history of the Qur'an. Namely, the use of different sources and the differences in the developing communities that found in the records of precipitation So the sight of an evolutionary, gradual development and not a tradition that book the will have received as a finished piece from somewhere (for a revealed religion necessarily out of the sky).

Serve with the completely unsystematic compilation. The order of the suras is distorting, many verses are not obvious to the place where they are, and others are completely absent after earlier testimony. Everything seemed confused and unfinished, you might convince yourself please (in Arabic it is not any better). One can see why the Koran rather than a collection of material, as unfinished concept, rather than the self-contained ideology and guide book as it is used today.
ARAB WARRIOR

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#8 Jan 25, 2013
We are present in every country. In no country is the Muslim population declining. In every country with but few exceptions all local population is declining.
Islam is not on the way out.
Islam is on the way in.
Democracy is the key.
Abu hamed

San Jose, CA

#9 Jan 25, 2013
wow man, really good investigation work, NOT.

this doesnt surprise me much, there are even those athiests who say that Jesus peace be upon him did not exist, we do not believe that, never.
ARAB WARRIOR

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#10 Jan 25, 2013
Scent of Memories wrote:
What you 'RUSTY' and people like you Should know is that Islam is the solution for this miserable world's problems. Islam is the answer. Islam will bring peace , love and happiness to this world. And despite every thing, I'm very optimistic that this will happen very very soon insha' Allah.
Salaams Sister. Your words are a beacon to truth. Thank you and may God bless every step of your path.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#11 Jan 25, 2013
Interesting, Rusty.

:)

Can I put this here?

Seems related.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/denis_...

'[The Qur'an] is strikingly lacking in overall structure, frequently obscure and inconsequential in both language and content, perfunctory in its linking of disparate materials, and given to the repetition of whole passages in variant versions. On this basis it can plausibly be argued that the book is the product of belated and imperfect editing of materials from a plurality of traditions'

'From the literary point of view, the Koran has little merit. Declamation, repetition, puerility, a lack of logic and coherence strike the unprepared reader at every turn. It is humiliating to the human intellect to think that this mediocre literature has been the subject of innumerable commentaries, and that millions of men are still wasting time absorbing it.'

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#12 Jan 25, 2013
Trisha wrote:
Interesting, Rusty.
:)
Can I put this here?
Seems related.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/denis_...
'[The Qur'an] is strikingly lacking in overall structure, frequently obscure and inconsequential in both language and content, perfunctory in its linking of disparate materials, and given to the repetition of whole passages in variant versions. On this basis it can plausibly be argued that the book is the product of belated and imperfect editing of materials from a plurality of traditions'
'From the literary point of view, the Koran has little merit. Declamation, repetition, puerility, a lack of logic and coherence strike the unprepared reader at every turn. It is humiliating to the human intellect to think that this mediocre literature has been the subject of innumerable commentaries, and that millions of men are still wasting time absorbing it.'
sure, and that is consistent with last paragraph of post #7:

"Serve with the completely unsystematic compilation. The order of the suras is distorting, many verses are not obvious to the place where they are, and others are completely absent after earlier testimony. Everything seemed confused and unfinished, you might convince yourself please (in Arabic it is not any better). One can see why the Koran rather than a collection of material, as unfinished concept, rather than the self-contained ideology and guide book as it is used today."

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#13 Jan 25, 2013
Scent of Memories wrote:
What you 'RUSTY' and people like you Should know is that Islam is the solution for this miserable world's problems. Islam is the answer. Islam will bring peace , love and happiness to this world. And despite every thing, I'm very optimistic that this will happen very very soon insha' Allah.
Scent, "Truth" is not what you wish for.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#14 Jan 25, 2013
ARAB WARRIOR wrote:
Salaams Sister. Your words are a beacon to truth...
does it include this statement she revealed?

www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TTQTVCOMF0...

:)

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#15 Jan 25, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
does it include this statement she revealed?

www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TTQTVCOMF0...

:)
btw, since we're in that thread, here's a truly lovely post from your sister:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TTQ...

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#16 Jan 25, 2013
err.... how many posts does it take for a thread to go off topic? never mind, I'm off to lunch...
jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#17 Jan 25, 2013
ARAB WARRIOR wrote:
<quoted text>We are destined to rule over the whole world. The Prophet(pbuh) is our inspiration, Allah(swat) our protector and guide. You are the enemies of truth.
You will be vanquished.
WHY DO YOU WANT TO RULE OVER THE WORLD THAT GOD HAS ALWAYS OWNED? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT SATAN WANTS TO DO! and it won't happen.
jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#18 Jan 25, 2013
ISLAM'S LATEST EXAMPLES OF PEACE
AND ATTEMPTS TO SEND SOULS TO SATAN TO MAKE SATAN HAPPY:

2013.01.23 (Maiduguri, Nigeria)- Boko Haram Islamists burn down a school and shoot four people to death.
2013.01.23 (Maiduguri, Nigeria)- Religion of Peace proponents behead five people in their homes.
2013.01.23 (Tuz Khurmatu, Iraq)- A Shahid self-detonates inside a packed mosque, sending at least forty-two souls to Allah.
2013.01.23 (Narathiwat, Thailand)- A teacher is shot to death by Muslim 'insurgents' in front of dozens of children.
2013.01.22 (Karachi, Pakistan)- A prominent doctor is among two Shias gunned down by Sunni radicals.
2013.01.22 (Kano, Nigeria)- Five people playing an outdoor board game are shot to death by Islamic fundamentalists.'
jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#19 Jan 25, 2013
READ THIS. IT'S A PROPHECY ABOUT ISLAM IN THE BIBLE:

1 TIMOTHY 4:

'1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

6 If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters, you will be a good minister of CHRIST JESUS, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.'

A RELIGION THAT PROPHESIZES A DECLINE IN IT'S OWN MEMBERS! THAT'S AMAZING!
The size of a religion has nothing to do it's truthfulness!...NOTHING AT ALL!
PATRIOT

Carmel, ME

#20 Jan 25, 2013
Mo has left the planet. But he is still worshiped as a dead god by the Muslims. Right E-Lad? Right abbababba?
more truth

Tallahassee, FL

#22 Jan 25, 2013
Scent of Memories wrote:
What you 'RUSTY' and people like you Should know is that Islam is the solution for this miserable world's problems. Islam is the answer. Islam will bring peace , love and happiness to this world. And despite every thing, I'm very optimistic that this will happen very very soon insha' Allah.
First bring peace, etc. to yourselves. Muslims boast of things they do not exhibit. People have been running away from them for years. They are now entering a time of internal warfare as the Sunnis try to murder the other schools of thought. Can't be done, just years of bloodshed and destruction.

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