Jesus is holy according to v. 19/19 in the Quran

Posted in the Islam Forum

naman

Norway

#1 Jun 16, 2013
The Quran confirms in verse 19/19 that Jesus is holy - the "holy son" of Mary.

Muhammad stated several places in the Quran that he himself just was an ordinary man = not holy.

What does this tell about Muhammad's and Islam's claim that Muhammad was the greatest of prophets?

http://www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims",
Onelawforall

London, UK

#2 Jun 17, 2013
Jesus foprgave the adulteress.
Muhammad flogged her.
jesus gave the thief his coat.
Muhammad chopped his hand off.
jesus said love thy enemies.
Muhammad said kill pagans wherever you find them.

Two different gods one is god the other satan. Muslims will discover their mistake when they die.
Naman

Ørsta, Norway

#3 Jun 17, 2013
Onelawforall wrote:
Jesus foprgave the adulteress.
Muhammad flogged her.
jesus gave the thief his coat.
Muhammad chopped his hand off.
jesus said love thy enemies.
Muhammad said kill pagans wherever you find them.
Two different gods one is god the other satan. Muslims will discover their mistake when they die.
There is no doubt for anyone able to read the Bible and the Quran that the two are different gods - they are too different to be the same one.
The fact that also the Quran admits that Jesus is holy, further proves that Jesus is in a higher class of prophets than Muhammad, in spite of Muhammad's never proved claims.
http://www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims".
Onelawforall

London, UK

#4 Jun 17, 2013
Naman wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no doubt for anyone able to read the Bible and the Quran that the two are different gods - they are too different to be the same one.
The fact that also the Quran admits that Jesus is holy, further proves that Jesus is in a higher class of prophets than Muhammad, in spite of Muhammad's never proved claims.
http://www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims".
The reason that Muhammad recognised jesus was because he wanted fame & fortune and the best way to achieve that is to recruit people of different beliefs. He also claimed Alexander the Great was a muslim because of his historical importance. Muhammad would have claim the devil as a muslim if he thought he could grab his followers.
Naman

Ørsta, Norway

#6 Jun 19, 2013
Onelawforall wrote:
<quoted text>
The reason that Muhammad recognised jesus was because he wanted fame & fortune and the best way to achieve that is to recruit people of different beliefs. He also claimed Alexander the Great was a muslim because of his historical importance. Muhammad would have claim the devil as a muslim if he thought he could grab his followers.
He also claimed that Abraham, Moses, and all the other Jewish prophets were good Muslims, even though neither science nor Islam has ever found one single trace of a religion like Islam or a book like the Quran anywhere in the world older than 610 AD.

And serious: If Jesus was holy and Muhammad not like the Quran says, Muhammad clearly was not the greatest of prophets - and Muhammad lying in the Quran each time he claimed he was.

http://www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims"
naman

Norway

#7 Jun 22, 2013
Naman wrote:
<quoted text>
He also claimed that Abraham, Moses, and all the other Jewish prophets were good Muslims, even though neither science nor Islam has ever found one single trace of a religion like Islam or a book like the Quran anywhere in the world older than 610 AD.
And serious: If Jesus was holy and Muhammad not like the Quran says, Muhammad clearly was not the greatest of prophets - and Muhammad lying in the Quran each time he claimed he was.
http://www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims"
Strange - I do not see any Muslim comment to the fact that the Quran confirms that Jesus is holy whereas Muhammad is not, or to what this means.

www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims"
look

Riverside, CA

#8 Jun 22, 2013
Why are you trying to twist it out of it's meaning?

"Pure" means "holy" to you?

so any kind of purified water to you means holy-ified water?

Get real.
naman

Oslo, Norway

#9 Jun 22, 2013
look wrote:
Why are you trying to twist it out of it's meaning?
"Pure" means "holy" to you?
so any kind of purified water to you means holy-ified water?
Get real.
Hello.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali is reckoned by Islam to be one of the 3 best ever translators of the Quran to English - perhaps the very best. His translation is: "--- the gift of a holy son".

If you claim the meaning is "pure", not "holy", we are up against 2 facts:
1. Perhaps the most common way for Islam and Muslims to explain away errors, etc. in the Quran, is to claim that the text means something different from what it really says - the omniscient god Allah is unable to express himself correctly, and the clever Muslims have to tell what he "really" means. There are at least 300 points in the Quran where Muslims/Islam use this way to flee from errors, immoral moral, etc. in the book.
2. If there are different - 2 or 3 or more - meanings to an Arab word (which there frequently are - up to at least 7 in extreme cases), then both "pure" and "holy" may be correct translation, and people have to guess what Muhammad/Allah really meant. I have never seen a number for how many places in the Quran there are unclear points of this kind, but the number is at least in the hundreds (partly because the Quran originally was written in an unfinished alphabet where readers had to guess the vowels - guess wrong vowel, and the word often changes meaning. Islam names these different versions "different ways of reading"). But if words have different meanings - and MANY in the original Quran have - how then is it possible to claim that the Quran is so plain and clear and not to be misunderstood, that the very language in the book is a proof for that the book is from a god?

I may add that f.x. N. J. Dawood has the same translation as Yusuf Ali, whereas f.x. M. H. Shakir has your translation. Which of the two points above is the explanation for the divergence?

http://www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims"
An Atheist

Ashburn, VA

#10 Jun 22, 2013
look

Riverside, CA

#11 Jun 23, 2013
look

Riverside, CA

#12 Jun 23, 2013
naman, even a muslim such as myself who does not speak arabic fluently on a regular basis can realize the instruction of finding the
importance of the arabic.

Yet, it seems that those that wanna try to
baffle others with the idea that the quran is invented and full of mistakes, rely on english "translations" to prove their point.
Onelawforall

London, UK

#13 Jun 24, 2013
look wrote:
naman, even a muslim such as myself who does not speak arabic fluently on a regular basis can realize the instruction of finding the
importance of the arabic.
Yet, it seems that those that wanna try to
baffle others with the idea that the quran is invented and full of mistakes, rely on english "translations" to prove their point.
Muslims love to say that you have to read the quran in Arabic to understand it but in truth the only readable versions of the quran are the translated ones. In Arabic it is gobbledegook.

"The Quran claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen’, or clear. But [contrary to popular belief] if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply does not make sense…the fact is that a fifth of the Qur’anic text is just incomprehensible. If the Qur’an is not comprehensible, if it can’t even be understood in Arabic, then it’s not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur’an claims repeatedly to be clear but is not - there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Koran_R...

As it says in the Quran Allah is the best of deceivers and he has deceived millions of muslims. Muslims worship a conman.
look

Riverside, CA

#14 Jun 24, 2013
So are you an expert on arabic then?

Even though I don't conversate in arabic like some of the muslims at the mosque do, I have faith to understand the Qur'an is God's word.

Go ahead and love not the world, why don't you?
Onelawforall

London, UK

#15 Jun 25, 2013
look wrote:
So are you an expert on arabic then?
Even though I don't conversate in arabic like some of the muslims at the mosque do, I have faith to understand the Qur'an is God's word.
Go ahead and love not the world, why don't you?
I'm not an expert on Arabic but Gerd Rüdiger Puin is a German scholar and an authority on Qur'anic historical orthography, the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts. He is also a specialist in Arabic paleography.

You may have faith in the Quran but Gerd Puin has shown that it is not the word of Allah. Muslims claim there is only one Quran and all are identical but the different ones were burnt by Caliph Uthman but a second Quran has been found in the Sanaa Mosque and when muslims realised the consequences of this find they called a halt to the analysis. Muslims do not want the world to know that the Quran was created by man. This shows that muslims have closed minds and are not open to criticism of their religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_R._Puin
naman

Norway

#16 Jun 25, 2013
look wrote:
naman, even a muslim such as myself who does not speak arabic fluently on a regular basis can realize the instruction of finding the
importance of the arabic.
Yet, it seems that those that wanna try to
baffle others with the idea that the quran is invented and full of mistakes, rely on english "translations" to prove their point.
You do not explain what is the importance of Arabic.
But you are aware of that claiming that the Quran must be read in Arabic is one of the 3-4 most used ways for Muslims to flee from errors,etc. in the Quran? Sorry, but according to linguists that claim is not true.

That the Quran is full of errors is a documented fact. F.x. http://www.1000mistakes.com documents 1700+ only of wrong facts, 300+ internal contradictions, etc., etc. A few of them may be because of translation, but the overwhelming majority - has nothing to do with translation. There f.x. are no 7 material heavens, there are no 7 (flat) Earths (one above the other according to Hadiths), the stars are are not fastened to the lowest of the 7 claimed heavens, and placed below the moon, etc., etc., just to mention a very few.

And no book full of mistakes and worse is from an omniscient god.

https://www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims
naman

Norway

#17 Jun 25, 2013
Onelawforall wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not an expert on Arabic but Gerd Rüdiger Puin is a German scholar and an authority on Qur'anic historical orthography, the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts. He is also a specialist in Arabic paleography.
You may have faith in the Quran but Gerd Puin has shown that it is not the word of Allah. Muslims claim there is only one Quran and all are identical but the different ones were burnt by Caliph Uthman but a second Quran has been found in the Sanaa Mosque and when muslims realised the consequences of this find they called a halt to the analysis. Muslims do not want the world to know that the Quran was created by man. This shows that muslims have closed minds and are not open to criticism of their religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_R._Puin
Hello

You do not have to go to Sanaa find differences in the Quran. According to Islam - Islam - there once existed 14 cannonized versions of the Quran. Even today 2 of them - the version after Warsh and the one after Hafs - are in daily use, one in parts of Africa, and the other in the rest of the world.
And the 4 competing Qurans from before Uthman made his official version, survived at least vell into the 800s.

http://www.1000mistakes.com
"Muhammadans, not Muslims".

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