France court upholds dismissal over Islamic headscarf

Posted in the Islam Forum

“Alea iacta est!”

Since: Oct 06

Oh it's ON!

#1 Nov 30, 2013
http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/france-h...
The lawyer defending Baby-Loup, Richard Malka, welcomed the ruling because it “reaffirms the strength of secularism”.

A survey of French citizens by the BVA polling firm last month showed that more than 80% of respondents supported her dismissal and called for the ban on religious signs or symbols to be extended to private workplaces.
Kss

France

#2 Nov 30, 2013
A Christmas tree is there still a place in secular schools? Editorial : secular morality , which one? Should we prohibit a Catholic to wear a pendant of Jesus or Mary , a secular schools?

“Fly low, fly fast.”

Since: Apr 07

East Midlands, UK

#3 Nov 30, 2013
Christmas trees aren't a Christian symbol, headscarves are Islamic.

That's the difference.
Kss

Paris, France

#4 Nov 30, 2013
What the Bible (Old and New Testament) on the web?

The veil has the image of society in the Western world , Lowering woman submission. It is also associated with Arab or Muslim countries . Is this reality? Certain aspects of reality were they hid us To answer these questions we will try to answer the first question. Rather you ! Ask yourself this question: What does the Bible say about the veil?

In fact, most people generalize and divide the world into two parts , East and the Qor'an , the West and the Bible. This is a misconception. But it is interesting to answer this question on the veil in the Bible , because it has already cleared a lot. Thus , attempting to answer this question, we realize first that the veil is present repeatedly in the Bible. It is sometimes the veil as we imagine today , sometimes the hair :

Genesis
Chapter 29 , Verses 15-26 :

" 29.15
And Laban said unto Jacob, Because thou art my brother , shouldest thou therefore serve me for nothing? Tell me, what shall thy wages . 29.16 Now Laban had two daughters : the elder was Leah , and the younger was Rachel .
29.17
Leah had weak eyes, but Rachel was fair and beautiful figure.
29.18
Jacob loved Rachel , and he said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.
29.19
And Laban said : I love you better give that to give it to another man. Stay with me !
29.20
So Jacob served seven years for Rachel and they seemed unto him but a few days because he loved her. 29.21
Then Jacob said to Laban, Give me my wife , for my days are fulfilled, that I may go to her .
29.22
Laban gathered together all the men of the place , and made a feast .
29.23
In the evening he took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, who approached her .
29.24
And Laban gave maidservant to Leah his daughter, Zilpah her ​​handmaid . 29.25
The next morning, behold, it was Leah. Then Jacob said to Laban, What is this that thou hast done unto me? Is it not for Rachel that I served you? Why have you deceived me?
29.26
Laban said, It is not the custom here to give the younger before the firstborn . "

Odon Vallet for , French scholar of religion , this passage shows that Jacob could not recognize the woman who was given to him because his face was veiled .
Kss

Paris, France

#6 Nov 30, 2013
You can also see in the Bible, in the New Testament , specifically in the first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians :

11.1
Be imitators of me , as I myself am of Christ.
11.2
I praise you that you remember me in all respects, and that you hold my instructions as I have given you .
11.3
But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man , that man is the head of the wife , and God is the head of Christ .
11.4
Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head .
11.5
But every woman who prays or prophesies with her ​​head uncovered dishonors her head : it is as if she were shaven . Thus , it is expressly commanded in the Bible for women to cover themselves with a veil when they pray . On the other hand , from Odon Vallet [1] the obligation to wear the veil for girls free men and the prohibition to wear for prostitutes is present in Assyrian laws attributed to Tiglath - Pileser 1 ( v . 1,000 BC ).

It is also clearly stated in the Bible that man is the "head" of the woman.

It is also important to note that the veil is not limited to the church. Indeed, in the first book of Thessalonians , chapter 5 , verse 17 you can read :5:17 Pray without ceasing . " Which clearly expresses the fact that the woman should wear the veil even if she prays with her.

In the Book of Proverbs , you can read Chapter 31 , verse 30 :

31.30
Charm is deceitful , and beauty is vain: but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised .

Thus, it reiterates the idea that the woman must cover and be discreet .

In the Isaiah , chapter 47, verse 2 Book, you can read :

47.2
Take the millstones , and grind meal ; Ote your veil , identifies your skirts , uncover the leg , pass through the rivers

In the first book you can read Timothy chapter 2 and verse 9: I also want women to dress in a decent manner , with decency and propriety , not broided hair , or gold , or pearls , or costly array ,

Thus, the woman must be discreet .

Here's what you can read in the book of Peter chapter 3 verse 3:

"3.3
Have not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair , gold ornaments or fine clothes , 3.4 but the hidden man of the heart, with the incorruptible of a gentle and quiet spirit purity, which is of great worth in God .
3.5
Thus old time the holy women who trusted in God , obedient to their husbands . "

Thus , once again , being a low profile is recalled again . We also note that several times already through our reading we have noticed that the woman is subject to man in the Bible.
Kss

Paris, France

#7 Nov 30, 2013
Example, we can read :

In the first book of Timothy, chapter 2 , verses 11 and 12:

2.11
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2.12
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
The veil and submission Women are present in the Bible.
Here's one truth that many forget ..... brainwashed by the media, but not limited to, knowledge requires a minimum of will and effort, yet most people who criticize Islam and the Koran are the have not even read . Worse, they have not even read their books. We were talking about the Bible and the veil. But now , the Bible does speak of the burqa or something that resembles it? The veil reveals the face instead of the burqa which completely hides .

In the Book of Genesis, Chapter 24 , verse 65 :

24.65
She said to the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant said, It is my master . So she took her veil and covered herself. You would think after reading this that may be it plain sailing ....

But in the Book of Songs chapter 4 verse 3:
4.3
Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet , and thy speech is comely : thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate behind your veil .

Thus, it seems to be indeed a veil covering the face.
I also want to say that all the nuns who have dedicated their lives to God are all veiled and all representations of Mary, mother of Jesus (peace and mercy of Allah be upon him ).
Kss

Paris, France

#8 Nov 30, 2013
This is a question that thinking. Because some see the tree the symbol of "Christmas " religious holiday.

lol yes but what religion?

not Jewish
not Catholic
not Protestant
not maya
not Muslim
not mormon
not Buddhist
unorthodox
not Taoist
not Hindu ...

“Freedom, NOT islam.”

Since: Feb 11

Birmingham UK

#10 Nov 30, 2013
Trisha wrote:
http://www.albawaba.com/editor choice/france-headscarf-ban-53 6770
The lawyer defending Baby-Loup, Richard Malka, welcomed the ruling because it “reaffirms the strength of secularism”.
A survey of French citizens by the BVA polling firm last month showed that more than 80% of respondents supported her dismissal and called for the ban on religious signs or symbols to be extended to private workplaces.
s for this post Trisha. The UK is nearer to France than the USA, but I hadn't heard about this one. Its an excellent decision. I cant wait for UK courts to do the same.
warner

Ireland

#11 Nov 30, 2013
supersonic boom wrote:
Christmas trees aren't a Christian symbol, headscarves are Islamic.
That's the difference.
I suppose that Christians have used a Christmas tree as a celebration of Christmas, however, it is after all a so called Christian country so they have that right. Burkas are not for modern lands that are Western, so they should be banned! It is not a question of dress as such, but it is about separation and not anything to do with Islam as according to the Koran. If women had been burkanised when Mohammad was around he would not have seen them and grabbed them for his lusts. I say that to demonstrate that Burkas were not the order of the day in Mohammad' s time, not to say that it is a good case for burkanising women!
warner

Dublin, Ireland

#12 Nov 30, 2013
Kss wrote:
This is a question that thinking. Because some see the tree the symbol of "Christmas " religious holiday.
lol yes but what religion?
not Jewish
not Catholic
not Protestant
not maya
not Muslim
not mormon
not Buddhist
unorthodox
not Taoist
not Hindu ...
I agree Christmas trees are not religious but they are a decoration for the celebration of Christmas in a Land that is still considered Christian, so what is your point, as burka garb is not about Islam unless you are writing up the hadiths as you go through the ages? Burkas demean women and they promote in the minds of men that women who don't wear one deserve to be raped as they are bad women, and that is why Muslim men look down on Western women because they are being conditioned to do so, and now they are a threat to Western women because they think that they deserves to be raped! That is how far this garbage has gone! A woman who is not wearing a burka can be identified as non-muslim and targeted for abuse in their own Lands and the Land of their Ancestors! Ban the Burka and all face veils that is the solution!
warner

Dublin, Ireland

#13 Nov 30, 2013
Kss wrote:
Example, we can read :
In the first book of Timothy, chapter 2 , verses 11 and 12:
2.11
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2.12
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
The veil and submission Women are present in the Bible.
Here's one truth that many forget ..... brainwashed by the media, but not limited to, knowledge requires a minimum of will and effort, yet most people who criticize Islam and the Koran are the have not even read . Worse, they have not even read their books. We were talking about the Bible and the veil. But now , the Bible does speak of the burqa or something that resembles it? The veil reveals the face instead of the burqa which completely hides .
In the Book of Genesis, Chapter 24 , verse 65 :
24.65
She said to the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant said, It is my master . So she took her veil and covered herself. You would think after reading this that may be it plain sailing ....
But in the Book of Songs chapter 4 verse 3:
4.3
Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet , and thy speech is comely : thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate behind your veil .
Thus, it seems to be indeed a veil covering the face.
I also want to say that all the nuns who have dedicated their lives to God are all veiled and all representations of Mary, mother of Jesus (peace and mercy of Allah be upon him ).
We are Christians and Jesus says that all are equal in Him and that statement over rules Paul! In the Times of the early Church, women were not educated but the Church gave them freedom that they were not used to in Jewish Culture, and they were out of control shouting out and asking questions and interrupting the sermons so Paul as he did not rate any of those particular women to be knowledgeable or a Prophet, rebuked them, and that stood for that time alone, not for all time as that statement was not the Living Word of God, no more than asking a woman to make some cakes for the church fayre would be! God Himself says that in the last days (and we are in them) He will call men and women, young and old, to be His Prophets, and that is the Word of the Lord, now hear!
warner

Dublin, Ireland

#14 Nov 30, 2013
Kss wrote:
Example, we can read :
In the first book of Timothy, chapter 2 , verses 11 and 12:
2.11
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2.12
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
The veil and submission Women are present in the Bible.
Here's one truth that many forget ..... brainwashed by the media, but not limited to, knowledge requires a minimum of will and effort, yet most people who criticize Islam and the Koran are the have not even read . Worse, they have not even read their books. We were talking about the Bible and the veil. But now , the Bible does speak of the burqa or something that resembles it? The veil reveals the face instead of the burqa which completely hides .
In the Book of Genesis, Chapter 24 , verse 65 :
24.65
She said to the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant said, It is my master . So she took her veil and covered herself. You would think after reading this that may be it plain sailing ....
But in the Book of Songs chapter 4 verse 3:
4.3
Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet , and thy speech is comely : thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate behind your veil .
Thus, it seems to be indeed a veil covering the face.
I also want to say that all the nuns who have dedicated their lives to God are all veiled and all representations of Mary, mother of Jesus (peace and mercy of Allah be upon him ).
I am not Roman Catholic, but the nuns have taken a vow of chastity and they do not wear face veils! The nuns are few in number and don't look like ghouls unlike burkanised women who do, and they are not virgins either, so it not the same concept. The face should always be seen. The only time, way back, l saw a woman who used a veil, and people asked her why, and she told them that she was terminally ill with face cancer! Poor soul!
warner

Ireland

#15 Nov 30, 2013
Women must be part of the 21st century, and they must have the freedom to drive cars and buses and fly planes, and run and be athletic, and play professional tennis, and model clothes and jewellery, and climb up ladders to decorate, or work for the telephone company, and be surgeons(and not scare the patients) and work in all areas and have nothing barred to them, but wearing a burka impedes women and it's not acceptable. It does, so don't come back saying that women can do these things burkanised and face veiled, they cannot, and that's why Muslim men want it, because they want to keep women down and unequal with men.

“Fly low, fly fast.”

Since: Apr 07

East Midlands, UK

#16 Dec 1, 2013
warner wrote:
Women must be part of the 21st century, and they must have the freedom to drive cars and buses and fly planes,
My flying instructor when I learnt to fly back in the late 1990's was (and still is) a female. Couldn't have asked for anyone better.
Proud American

Indianapolis, IN

#17 Dec 1, 2013
This is great news. Want to cover your faces? Move the hell back to wear your came from.
Meh

Saskatoon, Canada

#18 Dec 2, 2013
Christmas to me is cultural, i know that some people use it for thier religion but to me its not about religion. Christmas is for family and children, its a day of peace for my family, we get to visit relatives from all over the globe. My family every year brings people that have no family in this country into our household to enjoy the holiday season.

@warner. I could see people using burkha's here during the winter. I wouldnt blame them, it can be really cold here, but just like balaclava's, motorcycle helmets and anything covering face should be taken off when in a store, or mainly dealing with the public. The only reason someone should cover thier face in public is for medical reasons, and i have seen a few, even made the mistake to ask a guy to uncover his face, he did it and i found out his skin around his mouth was chewed off by a bear. Before anyone says about the rights to wear what you want, just remember that person (face covered) took away the rights of the other person to be able to see the other persons face, and we all have the right to see the face of the person we are dealing with.
warner

Ireland

#19 Dec 2, 2013
Meh wrote:
Christmas to me is cultural, i know that some people use it for thier religion but to me its not about religion. Christmas is for family and children, its a day of peace for my family, we get to visit relatives from all over the globe. My family every year brings people that have no family in this country into our household to enjoy the holiday season.
@warner. I could see people using burkha's here during the winter. I wouldnt blame them, it can be really cold here, but just like balaclava's, motorcycle helmets and anything covering face should be taken off when in a store, or mainly dealing with the public. The only reason someone should cover thier face in public is for medical reasons, and i have seen a few, even made the mistake to ask a guy to uncover his face, he did it and i found out his skin around his mouth was chewed off by a bear. Before anyone says about the rights to wear what you want, just remember that person (face covered) took away the rights of the other person to be able to see the other persons face, and we all have the right to see the face of the person we are dealing with.
Thanks Mey, but a bit of a mixed up post there. Christmas was and is a Holy celebration with comfort and joy, that is why it is called Christ- mas! It will be banned for all people under Islam. When it's cold in Canada, there is other clothes that can be worn to deal with the cold. Canada survived the Winters of its past without burkas! People using face masks for facial deformities would be in a minority, in the population, and they should not wear Burkas but other types of coverage. As a society, we have not or would not ban a mask in general, but we cannot have masses of people covering their faces. Several criminals, always Muslim men, have escaped dressed in a burka. It should be banned outright, no excuse! Our country belongs to us, at present, and any person who wants to turn it into an Islamic State should be kicked out of the country, and there are plenty of Islamic countries where they can go which will allow them to be happy wallowing in their ideology! People in the West make the mistake of allowing them to stay Islamic as they think that they want to keep it all to themselves, but what Muslims really do is take over other cultures by stealth and when their numbers increase they impose burkas on all women and not just muslim women!
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#21 Feb 5, 2014
Islam should be outlawed in the West. It has no place in civilized society.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Islam Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Islam Will Conquer Italy and the Entire West (Sep '10) 9 min oneear69 371,058
Who Is Allah? (Aug '07) 12 min Shamma 202,180
DY: any gays or lesbians here? 22 min LBer 6
Muslims are a primitive people, just sayin' 23 min Ravenclaw 3
UK Soon To Fall Apart (Oct '12) 39 min Ravenclaw 87
Heated clashes at mosque protest 1 hr NZ sucks wang 7
Stars boycott hotels over Brunei Islamic law 1 hr Ravenclaw 296
No Muslim can think of profaning holy Prophet (... (Jan '11) 1 hr Modi Ji 50,632
The Dutch war on Islam 2 hr Ravenclaw 27
DY: I'm leaving this forum 9 hr Joe 58
•••

Islam People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••