Staged Conversion to Islam - by Yusuf...

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#21 Aug 24, 2012
Scent, ashkar, don't you think those statements from Estes as I reproduced in post #4, 5 and 6 very "questionable"?

Do you really believe what the accusations Estes made of those "other preachers"? In my opinion, those are beyond any doubt lies and the last thing his muslim audiences deserve is someone lying to them.

(no he wasn't even joking, he said it in pretty serious tone)

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#22 Aug 24, 2012
Scent of Memories wrote:
I am.
While I don't blame you or ashkar for putting trust in Estes, I think people like Yusuf Estes makes Islamic Dawah look bad from outside. His approach is simply feeding muslims what they want to hear and make unverifiable claims. Thats why you'd never see him debating able christian debators.

Yusuf Estes used tricks that true muslim apologists would avoid. More decent muslim apologists like Shabir Ally would never create fake stories he couldn't verify to discredit "other preachers", but only argue from the written text, doctrines and history and offer legitimate interpretations. We can respect that kind of attitude while disagree with him based on our own worldview and interpretation of reality. Playing tricks will only cause many critical muslims to doubt their own faith, like "is that all we have"?

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#23 Nov 6, 2012
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
While I don't blame you or ashkar for putting trust in Estes, I think people like Yusuf Estes makes Islamic Dawah look bad from outside. His approach is simply feeding muslims what they want to hear and make unverifiable claims. Thats why you'd never see him debating able christian debators.
Yusuf Estes used tricks that true muslim apologists would avoid. More decent muslim apologists like Shabir Ally would never create fake stories he couldn't verify to discredit "other preachers", but only argue from the written text, doctrines and history and offer legitimate interpretations. We can respect that kind of attitude while disagree with him based on our own worldview and interpretation of reality. Playing tricks will only cause many critical muslims to doubt their own faith, like "is that all we have"?
Ah! long forgotten thread showing how Yusus Estes staged a "christian" converting to Islam....

Thanks to Scent for bring me to attention...

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#24 Nov 6, 2012
"Thanks to Scent for bring me to attention..."?

not sure about that, perhaps it should be

"Thanks to Scent for bringing it to my attention..."

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#25 Nov 6, 2012
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
Scent, ashkar, don't you think those statements from Estes as I reproduced in post #4, 5 and 6 very "questionable"?
Do you really believe what the accusations Estes made of those "other preachers"? In my opinion, those are beyond any doubt lies and the last thing his muslim audiences deserve is someone lying to them.
(no he wasn't even joking, he said it in pretty serious tone)
didn't look like Scent and Ashkar wants to talk about it

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#26 Nov 6, 2012
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
"Thanks to Scent for bringing it to my attention..."
for the record, here it is:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T13...

“Blessed on Earth n under It.”

Since: Oct 10

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#27 Nov 6, 2012
welcome ( before you change your mind and say thanks to me (rusty) for paying an attention)
Rusty! I don't worry what audience might think about Yusuf Estes or any other one who preaches Islam or being a ( Muslim)
you know! I don't buy yours ( look you make islam looks bla bla) I respect people's minds . I respect their freedom of choice. I respect their thinking. I'm not worried . Allah gave us brains to think and decide.
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
"Thanks to Scent for bring me to attention..."?
not sure about that, perhaps it should be
"Thanks to Scent for bringing it to my attention..."

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#28 Nov 6, 2012
Scent of Memories wrote:
welcome ( before you change your mind and say thanks to me (rusty) for paying an attention)
Rusty! I don't worry what audience might think about Yusuf Estes or any other one who preaches Islam or being a ( Muslim)
you know! I don't buy yours ( look you make islam looks bla bla) I respect people's minds . I respect their freedom of choice. I respect their thinking. I'm not worried . Allah gave us brains to think and decide.
Did you actually watched the entire video and still believe the conversion was real?

Btw Islam itself looks bla bla, it needs no help.

Since: Apr 12

Concord, CA

#29 Nov 8, 2012
again, here's the video:

www.youtube.com/watch...

they can't even act

Since: Apr 12

Concord, CA

#31 Jan 6, 2013
See what they're talking about Yusuf Estes. A "former christian ministry" who doesn't seem to know anything about chrstianity, and a "famous" muslim who doesn't seem to be know much about Islam either - unless he's just being deceptive as we now know.


http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Since: Apr 12

Concord, CA

#32 Mar 3, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =DiZo-wMDrrwXX&feature=pla yer_detailpage#t=974s
.
This is where Estes exposed the conversion was staged:
Estes: "You brothers and sisters are going to see something strange. Because Gabriel and I have never met... we're not setting this up. He doesn't even know what I was going to say... but Gabriel you've been praying in your heart asking god to guide you, or you wouldn't be standing there right now - is it true or false?"
Gabriel: "thats true"
.
Estes: "there you go, there's your verification when you said thats true, and I know it because I have been through this again and again and again and thousands of people are wathed come to Islam like Gabriel, they're looking for truth... they're not looking for Islam, they're not looking for Quran, they're just looking for truth - real truth....(see that 'truth'?)
.
Note: Gabriel has never spoken after his initial question in this video, what a miracle Estes have already known that he was ready to take his shahada, and next they did just that!(after listening to a very un-impressive speech!)
.
well, clearly Yusuf Estes has also violated Islam's law prohibiting soothsaying - something only prophet could do:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TVM...

"Leading Islamic seminary Darul Uloom Deoband has issued a fatwa prohibiting the practice of prophecy by Muslims, citing tenets of the Sharia and warning that if a follower of the faith indulges in soothsaying, his prayers for 40 days become unacceptable.

The fatwa was issued this month by the Islamic seminary in response to a person's query whether prophecy can be practised in Islam.

The seminary also cited the Sharia in support of its edict saying the sacred law of Islam prohibits soothsaying.
...
"
Muslim KSA

Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

#33 Mar 22, 2013
Hi folks. I'm a Muslim and I respect the majority of the criticism of the video in question here. I actually felt about 95% confident that the "Gabriel" incident was staged on my own after viewing the video a couple of times.

I have to be honest - I think it really was staged. While I love Islam and I am happy for real people deciding to come to it, I am ashamed that a Muslim would resort to something like this to draw attention to himself. I say himself and not Islam because I believe Estes was likely trying to stand out from the rest of the big names at the event, muslim preachers with actual qualifications. Estes is a former musician and actor, and while his acting skills are quite obviously a bit rusty, he still employs them here and there.

One last thing... I don't mean to insult anyone here... I would think that Christians could understand if I mentioned preachers like Falwell, Baker, other scam artists...These guys don't truly represent Christianity, similar to how Estes is not a fair representative of Islam.

Thanks for the topic.(even though I'm a bit late!)
Muslim KSA

Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

#34 Mar 22, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
I think people like Yusuf Estes makes Islamic Dawah look bad from outside. His approach is simply feeding muslims what they want to hear and make unverifiable claims.
Sadly I must agree.

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#35 Mar 22, 2013
Muslim KSA wrote:
Hi folks. I'm a Muslim and I respect the majority of the criticism of the video in question here. I actually felt about 95% confident that the "Gabriel" incident was staged on my own after viewing the video a couple of times.
I have to be honest - I think it really was staged
...
I'm glad that you have the same observation... I'm 100% confident that it was staged, and Yusuf Estes basically told us with his own mouth...(and he also committed a sin of "foretelling" that the guy would convert - see #32)
Michelle

Redmond, WA

#36 Mar 22, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
YouTube time around 6:00 to 10:30
Estes tried show that all muslims know their "unambiguous Quran", and he wanted the audience to believe christians would be "surprised" to know that the Bible wasn't originally written in English but in Hebrew and Greek....(as opposed to his claimed that all 1.6 billion Muslims know Quran is in Arabic)
But I don't know a christian that doesn't know this fact, not to mention an ex-preacher who so under-estimated his audience.
He claimed that some muslims memorized the entire Qur'an, and tried to contrast that to "how many Christians have memorized the entire bible"? As if Christians must do what Muslims do for Christianity to be true?(btw bible is 4 times bigger than Quran) Christians are not encouraged to memorize entire bible because doing that would actually distract most us from its useful application, just as mathematicians would be useless if they try to memorize all formulas instead of mastering its principles.
Muslims do know the Quran is written in Arabic.It's kind of a big deal:) The reason why the memorization and its value in Islam is significant speaks to the issues that exist in the Bible through many translations, and a chain of authentication that has a lot of missing links and questions. Since the time of Muhammed, the Quran has been recited and the thing is, if anyone misses even a word they are corrected instantly, so that there is no question as to if it is the original-any changes are considered a serious breach and are not tolerated. That it is IN the original language: read, spoken, and understood-is significant when compared to a book that is not read or understood in the original language and in fact, has been edited by a process of elimination based on politics and power.

It is good to know the actual book and actual language of the book before you start trying to apply the principles.

The book and the Quran are not a formula. Formulas are developed based on what is IN them. Actually knowing what is in them helps to develop the formula!
Muslim KSA

Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

#37 Mar 30, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm glad that you have the same observation... I'm 100% confident that it was staged, and Yusuf Estes basically told us with his own mouth...(and he also committed a sin of "foretelling" that the guy would convert - see #32)
"Foretelling" in this case seems to be based on organized plans, or if he was being honest, a prediction based on experience and clear indications, not the forbidden practice of claiming knowledge of the unseen without revelation.
Muslim KSA

Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

#38 Mar 30, 2013
Real fortune tellers and soothsayers who claim to have decisive knowledge about unseen matters are considered outside of the fold of Islam. Yusuf Estes does not fit this description, yet he does in fact deny certain necessary Islamic beliefs that one is not considered a Muslim without. As mentioned, he is not a fair representation of Islam.
mahfoud

Malaysia

#39 Apr 19, 2013
Unless you have some tangible facts, all your analysis are theoretical my friend.

Did you look into his heart or brother Gabriel's heart?

If it is staged, then Allah will punish them for that. and if it s not then Allah will punish you for claiming otherwise publicly.
george whyte

London, UK

#40 Apr 19, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
This video has been brought to my attention by a nice lady friend of mine:
www.youtube.com/watch...
The story goes like this: a young "christian" man Gabriel stood up and began by questioning Yusuf Estes (who claimed to be a former christian preacher) why he'd later convert to Islam.
The question lasted over 1 minute, then Yusuf Estes raised his head and looked to his right but couldn't find Gabriel, and he said there was light shining to his eyes so he couldn't see where Gabriel was, and then he looked to his left to finally see Gabriel: "There you are!" (makes you think what Estes was doing for the whole time during the questioning while he could easily locate Gabriel while he was being questioned). It was clear in the end that the purpose of that episode was to establish the "fact" that he didn't know what was coming... as he emphasized 16 minutes into the video (see video from 16:14 - 18:30, I mark the YouTube to jump directly there)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =DiZo-wMDrrwXX&feature=pla yer_detailpage#t=974s
This is where Estes exposed the conversion was staged:
Estes: "You brothers and sisters are going to see something strange. Because Gabriel and I have never met... we're not setting this up. He doesn't even know what I was going to say... but Gabriel you've been praying in your heart asking god to guide you, or you wouldn't be standing there right now - is it true or false?"
Gabriel: "thats true"
Estes: "there you go, there's your verification when you said thats true, and I know it because I have been through this again and again and again and thousands of people are wathed come to Islam like Gabriel, they're looking for truth... they're not looking for Islam, they're not looking for Quran, they're just looking for truth - real truth....(see that 'truth'?)
Note: Gabriel has never spoken after his initial question in this video, what a miracle Estes have already known that he was ready to take his shahada, and next they did just that!(after listening to a very un-impressive speech!)
(if you watch the video, notice their facial expressions throughout the video and I don't see how that could be one skeptic going through a supposely life-changing event)
See also at 18:20, Estes tried to downplay his native language by claiming 'superiority' of Arabic language by pointing to the word Islam would require 5 english words: "Surrender, Submission, Obedience, Sincerity, Peace" in order to describe it. And then notice the response of Gabriel when he said "really!?" in such "surprise" (that gave him such confidence to give his life to Islam?) Does anyone has any idea how existing of a word that is a composite of 5 different meanings make it a so supremely superior than a language that actually distinguishes the meanings?(afterall Estes needed to use the 5 words to describe the meaning of Islam?)
It really amazes me that muslims appear to buy this stuff, there are a few more "conversions" by the sisters after Gabriel, one even converted in tears...(I'm not going to analyse the ladies, the video tried to "protect their privacy" by not showing them)
During his speech, Estes clearly lied about christians and christian preachers, even twisted a few verses from the bible (he dared to combine two separate sentences from Jesus to make it sound as if they are from one sentence in order to enhance "biblical violence"... I'll locate the part later when I have time, but I encourage everybody to watch the entire video to see whats going on... I have seen this happening in Zakir Naik's programs as well when unbelieving ladies simply ask questions and so touched by answers they couldn't immediately verify but they immediately converted on the spot.
intresting read

Since: Apr 12

Danville, CA

#41 Apr 19, 2013
george whyte wrote:
intresting read
it surely is... it took me a while to type.

(thanks to Scent though, she made watch the fake conversion multiple times)

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