Can Muslims explain this error?

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Arnold

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#1
Sep 28, 2011
 

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One error, just one, and the entire Quran becomes a lie because it claims to be the letter for letter dictation of God. And if that claim is a lie then so is the rest of it. I think we can all agree pon that much.

72. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.

So here, it's clearly talking about Christian beliefs

73. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God,.....

Here it says one of three, not one of four or ten or many, exactly one of three. That's the Christian Trinity. Trinity means three, not four, not ten not many.

75. The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food.

Here, it mentions the other two and tells us why they are not Gods besides Allah

116. And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it;....

And here, it clearly confirms that the other two were indeed Jesus and Mary as 75 claims.

So here, we clearly have the Trinity being misunderstood as speaking about God, Jesus and Mary, rather than God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. In fact, not once does the Quran ever correctly mention Christians believing the Holy Spirit was the third aspect of the Trinity. So how could the creator of the universe make such a blatant error?? The answer is, he didn't, Muhammad did. How could Muhammad make this error? Very easily. Some Christians honored Mary so much that it is easy to see how an outside observer could think they take her as God and part of the Trinity. but in truth, the Trinity has always consisted of the Holy Spirit, not Mary. At most, Mary was worshiped as an intercessor, not a God of the Trinity. Christians would pray to Mary to ask her to pray to God on their behalf. They do not ask Jesus to do this because they believe he IS God and part of the Trinity. So although, there was what I would call excessive devotion to Mary, she still was not considered a God, Muhammad just mistakenly thought she was, which is why he scolded them for it through his Allah hand puppet.

So my question to Muslims is, how could you have possibly glossed over and missed such a clear and blatant error?? How could you still believe the Quran is the letter for letter dictation of God?? God doesn't make misunderstandings of people's beliefs, humans like Muhammad do. It's so obvious and staring you right in the face. How can you not see it? Is your need for Islam to be true so strong that you can live in denial and lie to yourself if need be?
Arnold

Beverly, MA

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Sep 29, 2011
 

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WOW!!! Not one single answer. So how can Muslims continue to remain Muslim?
Arnold

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Sep 29, 2011
 

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But it makes me wonder how Muslims can ignore this clear, blatant error and still believe that the quran was the letter for letter dictation of the all knowing creator of everything.

“Athiest”

Since: Jan 11

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Sep 29, 2011
 

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Arnold wrote:
that the quran was the letter for letter dictation of the all knowing creator of everything.
It was dictated byb an angle - not by god.

God was busy that day. Too busy to talk to Muhammad. Doing something more important.

-
mawar

Nibong Tebal, Malaysia

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Unguided man takes just about anything for god - crosses, revered persons, rock carved into figures, ghosts, graves, tombstones, money, power, and worldly possessions.

For wise man, there is no other god but the God - Al Lah means The God.

Thus There is no other lah, but Al Lah.

And Allah has sent Muhammad (peace be upon him) to bring the message and as example of how man should be. Thus Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.

There are men who refuse or reject guidance - these are the losers.

But there are those who always seek guidance and content with believing in Allah and following the messengers - these are Muslims.
bmz

La Jolla, CA

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Joe98 wrote:
<quoted text>
It was dictated byb an angle - not by god.
God was busy that day. Too busy to talk to Muhammad. Doing something more important.
-
you know their allah as singular. he cannot be at two places at one time. it is impossible for the creator of the universe to be omnipotent, to be everywhere at the same time. it is just not possible and it is unfathomable for goon mohammad to think he could be. otherwise, he may have to accept 3 and 1 concept !!
Alen

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Arnold wrote:
One error, just one, and the entire Quran becomes a lie because it claims to be the letter for letter dictation of God. And if that claim is a lie then so is the rest of it. I think we can all agree pon that much.
72. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.
So here, it's clearly talking about Christian beliefs
73. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God,.....
Here it says one of three, not one of four or ten or many, exactly one of three. That's the Christian Trinity. Trinity means three, not four, not ten not many.
75. The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food.
Here, it mentions the other two and tells us why they are not Gods besides Allah
116. And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it;....
And here, it clearly confirms that the other two were indeed Jesus and Mary as 75 claims.
So here, we clearly have the Trinity being misunderstood as speaking about God, Jesus and Mary, rather than God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. In fact, not once does the Quran ever correctly mention Christians believing the Holy Spirit was the third aspect of the Trinity. So how could the creator of the universe make such a blatant error?? The answer is, he didn't, Muhammad did. How could Muhammad make this error? Very easily. Some Christians honored Mary so much that it is easy to see how an outside observer could think they take her as God and part of the Trinity. but in truth, the Trinity has always consisted of the Holy Spirit, not Mary. At most, Mary was worshiped as an intercessor, not a God of the Trinity. Christians would pray to Mary to ask her to pray to God on their behalf. They do not ask Jesus to do this because they believe he IS God and part of the Trinity. So although, there was what I would call excessive devotion to Mary, she still was not considered a God, Muhammad just mistakenly thought she was, which is why he scolded them for it through his Allah hand puppet.
So my question to Muslims is, how could you have possibly glossed over and missed such a clear and blatant error?? How could you still believe the Quran is the letter for letter dictation of God?? God doesn't make misunderstandings of people's beliefs, humans like Muhammad do. It's so obvious and staring you right in the face. How can you not see it? Is your need for Islam to be true so strong that you can live in denial and lie to yourself if need be?
It's you who misunderstood The Bible and The Qur'an. Think about the trinity again and we'll talk, God willing.
Arnold

Beverly, MA

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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mawar wrote:
Unguided man takes just about anything for god - crosses, revered persons, rock carved into figures, ghosts, graves, tombstones, money, power, and worldly possessions.
For wise man, there is no other god but the God - Al Lah means The God.
Thus There is no other lah, but Al Lah.
And Allah has sent Muhammad (peace be upon him) to bring the message and as example of how man should be. Thus Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.
There are men who refuse or reject guidance - these are the losers.
But there are those who always seek guidance and content with believing in Allah and following the messengers - these are Muslims.
How did this answer the question or explain the error I pointed out?
Arnold

Beverly, MA

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Alen wrote:
<quoted text>
It's you who misunderstood The Bible and The Qur'an. Think about the trinity again and we'll talk, God willing.
How did that explain away the clear error? I explained what the verses were saying, verse by verse, and I explained exactly why this was an error and I even explained how and why an error like this could easily be made and I even pointed out that not once, not even one time, did the Quran ever accuse Christians of taking Jesus and the Holy Spirit as two Gods besides Allah. I don't need to think about the Trinity. I understand what it consists of, whereas Muhammad obviously did not.
Mawar

Ipoh, Malaysia

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Arnold wrote:
<quoted text>
How did this answer the question or explain the error I pointed out?
There is no error in the Quran. The one in error is you. I can point it out, sure, but better if you find it out yourself.
Arnold

Beverly, MA

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Mawar wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no error in the Quran. The one in error is you. I can point it out, sure, but better if you find it out yourself.
To me, this is an excuse for not having an explanation. I don't buy it. Perhaps someone a little more naive would.
Arnold

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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As I expected. No answer.
Arnold

Beverly, MA

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Joe98 wrote:
<quoted text>
It was dictated byb an angle - not by god.
It's supposed to be God's exact words, letter for letter written in heaven at the beginning of time. That claim is the fatal error of the Quran. One mistake and the whole thing becomes a lie. So while this was supposed to be the Quran's strength, it actually turns out to be it's fatal weakness. How can anybody possibly believe this book came from the creator of the universe rather than a shifty 7th century man hijack9ing past religions?
bmz

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Mawar wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no error in the Quran. The one in error is you. I can point it out, sure, but better if you find it out yourself.
you are a runner like bmz singapore, muslimmomma, and the next goon bastard muslim who shows up. now you know why islam is venomous. the only cure is to reject bastard mofreak and purge yourself of every trace of islam in you.

f. islam.
Mawar

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Sep 30, 2011
 

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Arnold wrote:
<quoted text>
To me, this is an excuse for not having an explanation. I don't buy it. Perhaps someone a little more naive would.
Reference to the Quran must begin with (1) Surah or Chapter and (2) Verse Number and Verse itself.

Reference to the translation of the Quran must begin with the translator e.g. Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, or any other.

Find out if there is commentary for that particular verse available. Be sure to avoid one by avowed enemies as they are bent on distorting every verse in the Book.

The commentary may have the history behind the revelation of every verse that you are interested in. The circumstances of revelation let you understand why, how, and who of that particular verse.

Reading a certain verse at different circumstance of your life also brings about a different learning - one of the magic of Quran.

You have started. No go on. Journey of a Book begins with a page, no, a verse.
Jesus Is

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#17
Oct 1, 2011
 

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Mawar wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no error in the Quran. The one in error is you. I can point it out, sure, but better if you find it out yourself.
Please explain this verse:

SURA 51:49
'And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.'
Wamin kulli shay-in khalaqna zawjaynilaAAallakum tathakkaroona
Arnold

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Oct 1, 2011
 

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Mawar wrote:
<quoted text>
Reference to the Quran must begin with (1) Surah or Chapter and (2) Verse Number and Verse itself.
Reference to the translation of the Quran must begin with the translator e.g. Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, or any other.
Find out if there is commentary for that particular verse available. Be sure to avoid one by avowed enemies as they are bent on distorting every verse in the Book.
The commentary may have the history behind the revelation of every verse that you are interested in. The circumstances of revelation let you understand why, how, and who of that particular verse.
Reading a certain verse at different circumstance of your life also brings about a different learning - one of the magic of Quran.
You have started. No go on. Journey of a Book begins with a page, no, a verse.
The Sura number is 5, the verse numbers were given and the translator is Shakir. Please state how the circumstances of one's life changes the clear meaning of these verses? Please stop creating excuses and simply explain the problem head on. You've already said you can do that, yet you continually refuse to do so. You fool nobody but yourself. Why would you think people are stupid? You're insulting my intelligence.
mawar

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Oct 1, 2011
 

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Arnold wrote:
<quoted text>
The Sura number is 5, the verse numbers were given and the translator is Shakir. Please state how the circumstances of one's life changes the clear meaning of these verses? Please stop creating excuses and simply explain the problem head on. You've already said you can do that, yet you continually refuse to do so. You fool nobody but yourself. Why would you think people are stupid? You're insulting my intelligence.
I did say earlier that 'Unguided man takes just about anything for god - crosses, revered persons, rock carved into figures, ghosts, graves, tombstones, money, power, and worldly possessions'.

A form of the blasphemous trinity is father, son, holy ghost stuff. Another is father, mother, and child - for every babe born there must be father - thus likely says mind of an unguided man.

Try google 'commentary surah maidah'. Commentary also means 'tafsir'. There is one site that even goes with rendition in arabic. Read and listen the entire surah.
Arnold

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Oct 1, 2011
 

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But the point is that the Quran mistakenly scolds Christians for believing in a Trinity that consists of God, Jesus and Mary rather than God the father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It never once scolds the proper version of the Trinity. All that you are doing is to explain how Muhammad could make this mistaken observation, and I have already mentioned that. Is this the explanation you promised?

bmz

Since: Mar 08

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Oct 1, 2011
 

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Arnold wrote:
One error, just one, and the entire Quran becomes a lie because it claims to be the letter for letter dictation of God. And if that claim is a lie then so is the rest of it. I think we can all agree pon that much.
72. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.
So here, it's clearly talking about Christian beliefs
73. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God,.....
Here it says one of three, not one of four or ten or many, exactly one of three. That's the Christian Trinity. Trinity means three, not four, not ten not many.
75. The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food.
Here, it mentions the other two and tells us why they are not Gods besides Allah
116. And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it;....
And here, it clearly confirms that the other two were indeed Jesus and Mary as 75 claims.
So here, we clearly have the Trinity being misunderstood as speaking about God, Jesus and Mary, rather than God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. In fact, not once does the Quran ever correctly mention Christians believing the Holy Spirit was the third aspect of the Trinity. So how could the creator of the universe make such a blatant error?? The answer is, he didn't, Muhammad did. How could Muhammad make this error? Very easily. Some Christians honored Mary so much that it is easy to see how an outside observer could think they take her as God and part of the Trinity. but in truth, the Trinity has always consisted of the Holy Spirit, not Mary. At most, Mary was worshiped as an intercessor, not a God of the Trinity. Christians would pray to Mary to ask her to pray to God on their behalf. They do not ask Jesus to do this because they believe he IS God and part of the Trinity. So although, there was what I would call excessive devotion to Mary, she still was not considered a God, Muhammad just mistakenly thought she was, which is why he scolded them for it through his Allah hand puppet.
So my question to Muslims is, how could you have possibly glossed over and missed such a clear and blatant error?? How could you still believe the Quran is the letter for letter dictation of God?? God doesn't make misunderstandings of people's beliefs, humans like Muhammad do. It's so obvious and staring you right in the face. How can you not see it? Is your need for Islam to be true so strong that you can live in denial and lie to yourself if need be?
So, what is the error?

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