QURAN miracles

Since: Jul 11

Toronto, Canada

#145 Sep 27, 2012
sick of it wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't need words to make you a liar and evader. the proof is right here, written out on this thread of the forum, you dumby. Everyone can see that you had no response to the things I pointed out against islam. Your inefficacy in defending your 'beloved prophet' is all laid out for everyone to read!
Actually, if there is an evader from among the two of us, it is YOU- you completely ignored my whole arguments in my post while replying, and just repeated the same shit again.

And while I don't owe you a damn thing, just to show you that I am not an evader, here is the earlier thread I had started about Ka'ab bin Ashraf's incident- and more than a dozen of clueless infidels like you were shouting their asses on it. Just to give your dumb highness an idea, each of these allegations takes a long discussion- it wouldn't work if you put 10 allegations and I just put "Not agreed" in front of them, or just one sentence each and return it to you:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TTD...
naman

Norway

#147 Sep 27, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
No
But for argument's sake lets say it was- If it was fulfilled that way, does it mean anything to you?
It does not mean much to me - but it should mean something to all Muslims who know the Quran.

In the Quran Muhammad several places states - directly or indirectly, but clearly, that he was "unable to see the unknown" or "unable to know the unknown" (f.x. 6/50 or 7/188)= he was unable to make prophesies. Aishah said the same about him in Hadiths.

This means that each and every time you or any other Muslim tell he made prophesies, you/they at the same time tell that the Quran is wrong at all these points (at least 8 places in the Quran), and that Muhammad lied in the Quran these 8 or more places, when he told he was unable to make prophesies.(There is a similar fact when you tell Muhammad made miracles - the Quran tells he was unable to make miracles, too).

Thank you for confirming the Quran is wrong here and there, and that Muhammad sometimes lied in the Quran.

http://www.1000mistakes.com
Mahmood

Toronto, Canada

#148 Sep 27, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are you inferring that from my posts???
I am telling you that according to Jews, the rabbi's scripture in Talmud was based on divine revelations- So if a divine law can appear in one scripture, what's wrong in its appearance in the other?? Where do you see a contradiction in my stance?
Even Jewish scholars are now admitting that the Torah was written by Rabbis. The same can be said of the Koran. There is no evidence for the existence of the Koran in any form until the last decade of the 7th CE, and if there is one, I'd like to know about it. "Allah" knows best how much of the Koran has been tampered with. What you believe and whats reality are not one and the same. All Mohammadans believe that the Koran is the immutable word of god without examining any evidence for it.
sick of it

Adams, NY

#149 Sep 27, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, if there is an evader from among the two of us, it is YOU- you completely ignored my whole arguments in my post while replying, and just repeated the same shit again.
And while I don't owe you a damn thing, just to show you that I am not an evader, here is the earlier thread I had started about Ka'ab bin Ashraf's incident- and more than a dozen of clueless infidels like you were shouting their asses on it. Just to give your dumb highness an idea, each of these allegations takes a long discussion- it wouldn't work if you put 10 allegations and I just put "Not agreed" in front of them, or just one sentence each and return it to you:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TTD...
You are mistaken. I did respond to your argument. You inquired why so many have stuck with islam over the years. I replied that it was probably because of the 'death to apostates' law. That's not evasion.

I also went and read the thread on the jewish guy who Mohamed had killed. Assuming your version is true, I probably would have killed the guy also, if I was in mohamed's shoes. But I don't think you can dream up ANY justification for the other issues I brought up. There is NO justification or explanation for raping female prisoners. There is NO justification for killing apostates. There is NO justification for marrying a six year old and screwing her when she's nine. There is NO justification for a blasphemy law. And i don't need to hear the same old tired crap about how "everybody married six year olds back then" or how Aisha wasn't really six, she was 14, or any of that ridiculous nonsense. You could waste your breath until you were 100 and you still wouldn't have enough breath to justify all of mohamed's crimes against humanity. Look at the muslim aversion to the 1947 declaration of Human rights that the UN put out. Islam does not respect a damn one of these rights. Not a single one. And the "Cairo Declaration" is nothing but a cruel joke...in one sentence, here's a summary..."You can have pretty much all the rights you want, unless and until they conflict in any way with Islam." How lame. Why would you even bother to be in a cult that you have to constantly keep defending its indefensible beliefs and tenets? Don't you see how illogical the whole thing is?

Since: Jul 11

Toronto, Canada

#150 Sep 27, 2012
naman wrote:
<quoted text>
It does not mean much to me - but it should mean something to all Muslims who know the Quran.
In the Quran Muhammad several places states - directly or indirectly, but clearly, that he was "unable to see the unknown" or "unable to know the unknown" (f.x. 6/50 or 7/188)= he was unable to make prophesies. Aishah said the same about him in Hadiths.
This means that each and every time you or any other Muslim tell he made prophesies, you/they at the same time tell that the Quran is wrong at all these points (at least 8 places in the Quran), and that Muhammad lied in the Quran these 8 or more places, when he told he was unable to make prophesies.(There is a similar fact when you tell Muhammad made miracles - the Quran tells he was unable to make miracles, too).
Thank you for confirming the Quran is wrong here and there, and that Muhammad sometimes lied in the Quran.
http://www.1000mistakes.com
You appear to have changed your stance- you asked for one single prophecy, and when I produced it, you have found your way out by "arguing" that the existance of prophecy has to be against Quran. Nice try, but failed!!

BTW those verses are merely describing the fact that the Prophet didn't have any knowledge except for what God wanted- The real knowledge of the unseen is indeedd with God, he can bestow it to whomever He wants.

And thanks but no thanks, I don't need those hate sites. I know them a bit too well

Since: Jul 11

Toronto, Canada

#151 Sep 27, 2012
sick of it wrote:
<quoted text>
You are mistaken. I did respond to your argument. You inquired why so many have stuck with islam over the years. I replied that it was probably because of the 'death to apostates' law. That's not evasion.
I also went and read the thread on the jewish guy who Mohamed had killed. Assuming your version is true, I probably would have killed the guy also, if I was in mohamed's shoes. But I don't think you can dream up ANY justification for the other issues I brought up. There is NO justification or explanation for raping female prisoners. There is NO justification for killing apostates. There is NO justification for marrying a six year old and screwing her when she's nine. There is NO justification for a blasphemy law. And i don't need to hear the same old tired crap about how "everybody married six year olds back then" or how Aisha wasn't really six, she was 14, or any of that ridiculous nonsense. You could waste your breath until you were 100 and you still wouldn't have enough breath to justify all of mohamed's crimes against humanity. Look at the muslim aversion to the 1947 declaration of Human rights that the UN put out. Islam does not respect a damn one of these rights. Not a single one. And the "Cairo Declaration" is nothing but a cruel joke...in one sentence, here's a summary..."You can have pretty much all the rights you want, unless and until they conflict in any way with Islam." How lame. Why would you even bother to be in a cult that you have to constantly keep defending its indefensible beliefs and tenets? Don't you see how illogical the whole thing is?
I will comment on one more of your points for now, that is apostacy- If you know, I am an Ahmadi Muslim, and I don't believe that apostacy, or blasphemy for that matter, has any worldly punishment at all- I know most Muslims don't share that, but I don't care- I don't find anything in the life of the Prophet to support it. I know there have been incidents which might lead to suggest that, but further analysis would easily reveal that all such punishments were conflicted for problems OTHER than apostacy. See below when you get a chance:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/mna/chap...
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Apostasy...

And please don't quote any "modern-day" Islamic resolutions or punishment laws etc to me- they are BS for me. No other community has suffered from these so-called Islamic governments and their laws than mine. I am virtually on your side for condemning things like "Cairo Resoultion"- although for a different reason: which is, they have NOTHIG to do with Islam.
jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#152 Sep 27, 2012
I JUST READ THIS AN THE EARLY BIOGRAPHY OF MUHAMMED:

IN THE CHAPTER TITLED 'THE TRINITY':

'Then Allah revealed the Sura known as
The Family of Imran which begins by refuting the Christian Trinity, and proclaiming omnipotence and one-ness of Allah. There is no god but He, the Living, the Eternal who cannot die; BUT JESUS DIED AND WAS CRUCIFIED. Allah has sent down the Koran, the criterion of truth and falsehood in matters of difference over Jesus and others. Those who disbelievethe directions of Allah will suffer grievous punishment; for Allah is mighty andavenging. Nothing is hidden from Allah on earth or in heaven and He knows whatthe Christians intend with their claims that Jesus is Lord and God. But Allahformed Jesus in the womb – this the Christians do not deny - as He formed otherhuman beings; how, then, can Jesus be god?'

JESUS DIED AND WAS CRUCIFIED?
jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#153 Sep 27, 2012
sick of it

United States

#154 Sep 27, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
I will comment on one more of your points for now, that is apostacy- If you know, I am an Ahmadi Muslim, and I don't believe that apostacy, or blasphemy for that matter, has any worldly punishment at all- I know most Muslims don't share that, but I don't care- I don't find anything in the life of the Prophet to support it. I know there have been incidents which might lead to suggest that, but further analysis would easily reveal that all such punishments were conflicted for problems OTHER than apostacy. See below when you get a chance:
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/mna/chap...
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Apostasy...
And please don't quote any "modern-day" Islamic resolutions or punishment laws etc to me- they are BS for me. No other community has suffered from these so-called Islamic governments and their laws than mine. I am virtually on your side for condemning things like "Cairo Resoultion"- although for a different reason: which is, they have NOTHIG to do with Islam.
Here it is from bukhari:

(8) Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Book #83, Hadith #17)

I understand now when you say you are an ahmadi. to them, YOU are the apostate. Might indeed be easier to leave islam altogether. WHY, o why on earth do you stick with it? What the hell is the attraction? Why would anyone want to be a muslim, whether shia or sunni or ahmadi? What is good in it? I see no good but a lot of stifling creativity, curiosity, and inquiry that prevents a people from moving ahead and toward the true higher spirit. And no I'm not a christian, and i don't want you to be one either. I DO however believe in a higher spirit, one that guides us and influences us in a million ways that we'll NEVER put together until we get to the other side where all will be revealed. I don't think a true god would give a rat's butt about whether someone ate meat on fridays, or wore a little beanie, or ate no pork, or whatever. These things would be of no concern to a true higher spirit. How we treat our fellow man...now that's another thing entirely. Men and women ARE EQUAL. Any religion that does not believe this is wrong. The higher spirit is not bothered in the least if someone blasphemes or draws a picture or stops believing. it doesn't matter whether you believe or not. the same thing will be waiting for you on the other side either way. We are here to lift each other up. Among other things i do, I feel like I am here to lift people out and away from the soul-corroding slime that is islam. I have closed many hearts to it already. People need to feel free, not imprisoned. Walk away from the prison, L4ALL. I can talk all i want but you're the one who has to come to the realization and say the anti-shahada.

Since: Jul 11

Toronto, Canada

#156 Sep 28, 2012
sick of it wrote:
<quoted text>
Here it is from bukhari:
(8) Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Book #83, Hadith #17)
I understand now when you say you are an ahmadi. to them, YOU are the apostate. Might indeed be easier to leave islam altogether. WHY, o why on earth do you stick with it? What the hell is the attraction? Why would anyone want to be a muslim, whether shia or sunni or ahmadi? What is good in it? I see no good but a lot of stifling creativity, curiosity, and inquiry that prevents a people from moving ahead and toward the true higher spirit. And no I'm not a christian, and i don't want you to be one either. I DO however believe in a higher spirit, one that guides us and influences us in a million ways that we'll NEVER put together until we get to the other side where all will be revealed. I don't think a true god would give a rat's butt about whether someone ate meat on fridays, or wore a little beanie, or ate no pork, or whatever. These things would be of no concern to a true higher spirit. How we treat our fellow man...now that's another thing entirely. Men and women ARE EQUAL. Any religion that does not believe this is wrong. The higher spirit is not bothered in the least if someone blasphemes or draws a picture or stops believing. it doesn't matter whether you believe or not. the same thing will be waiting for you on the other side either way. We are here to lift each other up. Among other things i do, I feel like I am here to lift people out and away from the soul-corroding slime that is islam. I have closed many hearts to it already. People need to feel free, not imprisoned. Walk away from the prison, L4ALL. I can talk all i want but you're the one who has to come to the realization and say the anti-shahada.
I think you didnt bother to read the document I referred- it contains at least half a dozen Quranic verses which clearly deny the death penalty for apostacy. Quran has to take preference over Hadith in any case- but even then, the document discusses at length around pages 114-135 this particular hadith that you have quoted, plus a couple other narrated by supporters of death penalty- and a few that clearly negate this notion. Remember,the most important source of Islamic law after Quran is Sunnah- the actions of the Prophet- and NOT hadith. And the Sunnah has clearly proven against the death penalty (or for that matter any worldly penalty) for apostacy. I have seen that Islamic haters like you just pick up some hadith at random and start scolding Islam, without having a clue about Islamic fiqah laws, authentication of hadith, the sources and status of the laws etc.

Regarding my opposition to the law bcz of being Ahmadi, well that doesn't apply to me anyways even in the eyes of mullahs- bcz I am not an "apostate" to them but a born "kafir"- so that logic of yours is incorrect too. And though this might not be the right forum to discuss this, but being Ahmadi, I am proud to be following the real Islam- The power of knowledge & logics was given to the Promised Messiah of this age, the true follower of Muhammad (pbuh)- and he prophesized that his followers would continue in his mode- which is what I am trying to do.

And it is good that you do believe in a superior being- that means there is light inside you. I hope & pray somehow that works to at least reduce some hatred that you have against Islam.
naman

Norway

#157 Sep 28, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
You appear to have changed your stance- you asked for one single prophecy, and when I produced it, you have found your way out by "arguing" that the existance of prophecy has to be against Quran. Nice try, but failed!!
BTW those verses are merely describing the fact that the Prophet didn't have any knowledge except for what God wanted- The real knowledge of the unseen is indeedd with God, he can bestow it to whomever He wants.
And thanks but no thanks, I don't need those hate sites. I know them a bit too well
Hello
First a little about your earlier reference:

This is based on the first part of surah 53, and manages to claim that Allah came down to Muhammad and merged with him into one unit.

There is no basis for such a claim in the entire Quran - no reference to such a merging. Besides Islam - its scholars - tell that these verses refer to a descending of the angel Gabriel (and there nowhere is any reference to any merging between him and Muhammad, too).

One may wonder why Muslims have to make up or twist stories - even their own "holy" book. And one may wonder how musch is true and how much is not in a religion using dishonesty (I remind you that the use of dishonesty and worse is permitted in 8-10 wide topics in Islam, included defence and promotion of Islam --- and f.x. to cheat women - cfr. al-Taqiyya, Kitman, Hilah, etc.)

http://www.1000mistakes.com
Naman

Ørsta, Norway

#158 Sep 29, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
You appear to have changed your stance- you asked for one single prophecy, and when I produced it, you have found your way out by "arguing" that the existance of prophecy has to be against Quran. Nice try, but failed!!
BTW those verses are merely describing the fact that the Prophet didn't have any knowledge except for what God wanted- The real knowledge of the unseen is indeedd with God, he can bestow it to whomever He wants.
And thanks but no thanks, I don't need those hate sites. I know them a bit too well
Hello.
I did not limit my request to just one prophesy. To be honest I may know as much about Muhammad's claimed prophesies as you do. And till now I have found not one satisfying the reasonable demands for calling something a real prophesy. F.x.:
1. It must be indicated that it is a prophesy - if not it just is a coincidence if it all the same comes true. Coincidences are not prophesies.
2. To be a real and not a false prophesy, it must come true. Even the most quoted claimed "prophesy" from Muhammad (in reality part of a pep-talk): "The Romans will be victorious in some years" is used dishonestly by Islam, as they never mention that the Arab word Muhammad used for "some" means "between 3 and 9 years". Depending on which battle Muhammad referred to, it took 12 years or more before the Romans were victorious".
3. To be a real propesy it cannot need a lot of "explaining" for why it may be true.
4. Even if one includes things said without being indicated to be foretellings, such "foretellings" have no connection to anything supernatural, unless messurably more is correct than the law of chance and the law of statistical probability dictates. What Muhammad told about future incidents, etc. he could not influence, clearly is below that minimum limit - Muhammad was inteligent, sly, etc., but with limitted fantasy.
5. There also is another fact which makes it impossible that Muhammad made proved prophesies or miracles: If it had been true, neither friends, followers or opponents had asked for such proofs - they had known they existed. And if they all the same had asked, they had quickly been told about what Muhammad had done - but what do you find in the Quran as replies to such requests?- fast talk telling why Allah "would" not do it (fast talk which on top of all is not true).
6. My stance was nothing but the trap I warned you against from the beginning - and you "plumped" into it with both feet. Muhammad himself told (f.x. in 6/50 and 7/188) that he was unable to "know the unknown" or "see the unknown" = he was unable to make prophesies. Aishah told the same about him in f.x. al-Bukhari. But all the same Muslims - included you - boast about his "miracles" and his "prophesies".
Thank you - and all other Muslims boasting about Muhammad's Miracles, etc.- for confirming that there are mistakes in the Quran, and that Muhammad lied in the Quran each time he denied to have power to make miracles or prophesies.
http://www.1000mistakes.com
Naman

Ørsta, Norway

#159 Sep 29, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
You appear to have changed your stance- you asked for one single prophecy, and when I produced it, you have found your way out by "arguing" that the existance of prophecy has to be against Quran. Nice try, but failed!!
BTW those verses are merely describing the fact that the Prophet didn't have any knowledge except for what God wanted- The real knowledge of the unseen is indeedd with God, he can bestow it to whomever He wants.
And thanks but no thanks, I don't need those hate sites. I know them a bit too well
Hello again.
As for http://www.1000mistakes.com being a hate page:
In 2008 (if I remember correctly) Islamic leaders sent an intern letter to many Muslim organisations, etc. The letter was leaked and published on Internet. In that letter one warned against a number of named internet pages, because they could make Muslims and even more so procelytes loose the belief in Islam. http://www.1000mistakes.com was one of only 3 where there neither was said one word about hate page, not about errors in the texts (except some spelling mistakes).

In 2009 Muslim organisations in Malaysia tried - through a state office for religion - to have http://www.1000mistakes.com evicted from internet, because Muslims disliked the texts, and then there had to be bad people behind that page. BUT THE WERE UNABLE TO POINT TO ONE SINGLE CASE OF ERROR OR HATE WORDS IN THE TEXTS TO "HANG" THE DEMAND FOR EVICTING IT ON.

Astually the page stresses that most Muslims are humans just like anybody else, and should not be judged bad just because they are Muslims (even though parts of the moral code, parts of the sharia laws, parts of Islamic history of war and behaviour, parts of Muslim slave history, etc. may indicate this and that.)

Some hate page!
naman

Norway

#160 Sep 30, 2012
I see no comments from L4ALL

Since: Jul 11

Maple, Canada

#161 Sep 30, 2012
naman wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello
First a little about your earlier reference:
This is based on the first part of surah 53, and manages to claim that Allah came down to Muhammad and merged with him into one unit.
There is no basis for such a claim in the entire Quran - no reference to such a merging. Besides Islam - its scholars - tell that these verses refer to a descending of the angel Gabriel (and there nowhere is any reference to any merging between him and Muhammad, too).
One may wonder why Muslims have to make up or twist stories - even their own "holy" book. And one may wonder how musch is true and how much is not in a religion using dishonesty (I remind you that the use of dishonesty and worse is permitted in 8-10 wide topics in Islam, included defence and promotion of Islam --- and f.x. to cheat women - cfr. al-Taqiyya, Kitman, Hilah, etc.)
http://www.1000mistakes.com
I have no doubt in my mind about those verses describing the night journey. I know many tafasir describe it about the revelation from Gabriel, but not my version. And I already showed you one reference. Besides, I can discuss each and every of those verses with you to prove my point, but I believe it will be off-topic- still I have no problem whatsoever discussing them.

Since: Jul 11

Maple, Canada

#162 Sep 30, 2012
Naman wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello.
I did not limit my request to just one prophesy. To be honest I may know as much about Muhammad's claimed prophesies as you do. And till now I have found not one satisfying the reasonable demands for calling something a real prophesy. F.x.:
1. It must be indicated that it is a prophesy - if not it just is a coincidence if it all the same comes true. Coincidences are not prophesies.
2. To be a real and not a false prophesy, it must come true. Even the most quoted claimed "prophesy" from Muhammad (in reality part of a pep-talk): "The Romans will be victorious in some years" is used dishonestly by Islam, as they never mention that the Arab word Muhammad used for "some" means "between 3 and 9 years". Depending on which battle Muhammad referred to, it took 12 years or more before the Romans were victorious".
3. To be a real propesy it cannot need a lot of "explaining" for why it may be true.
4. Even if one includes things said without being indicated to be foretellings, such "foretellings" have no connection to anything supernatural, unless messurably more is correct than the law of chance and the law of statistical probability dictates. What Muhammad told about future incidents, etc. he could not influence, clearly is below that minimum limit - Muhammad was inteligent, sly, etc., but with limitted fantasy.
5. There also is another fact which makes it impossible that Muhammad made proved prophesies or miracles: If it had been true, neither friends, followers or opponents had asked for such proofs - they had known they existed. And if they all the same had asked, they had quickly been told about what Muhammad had done - but what do you find in the Quran as replies to such requests?- fast talk telling why Allah "would" not do it (fast talk which on top of all is not true).
6. My stance was nothing but the trap I warned you against from the beginning - and you "plumped" into it with both feet. Muhammad himself told (f.x. in 6/50 and 7/188) that he was unable to "know the unknown" or "see the unknown" = he was unable to make prophesies. Aishah told the same about him in f.x. al-Bukhari. But all the same Muslims - included you - boast about his "miracles" and his "prophesies".
Thank you - and all other Muslims boasting about Muhammad's Miracles, etc.- for confirming that there are mistakes in the Quran, and that Muhammad lied in the Quran each time he denied to have power to make miracles or prophesies.
http://www.1000mistakes.com
Bla bla bla....

Just tell me one simple thing... Did you know about the prophesy of Suraqa?(you didn't seem to, from your initial reaction)- and now that you know about it, does it, or does it not, fulfill your definition of prophesy?

And don't worry- I didn't fall into your "trap"- I know what those verses mean - they don't mean what u r inferring. Allah says that anyone can get share from His knowledge as much as He desires (2:255)- why can't the Prophet get it then? Actually I have reason to believe that you are now trying to digress the discussion away.

Since: Jul 11

Maple, Canada

#163 Sep 30, 2012
Naman wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello again.
As for http://www.1000mistakes.com being a hate page:
In 2008 (if I remember correctly) Islamic leaders sent an intern letter to many Muslim organisations, etc. The letter was leaked and published on Internet. In that letter one warned against a number of named internet pages, because they could make Muslims and even more so procelytes loose the belief in Islam. http://www.1000mistakes.com was one of only 3 where there neither was said one word about hate page, not about errors in the texts (except some spelling mistakes).
In 2009 Muslim organisations in Malaysia tried - through a state office for religion - to have http://www.1000mistakes.com evicted from internet, because Muslims disliked the texts, and then there had to be bad people behind that page. BUT THE WERE UNABLE TO POINT TO ONE SINGLE CASE OF ERROR OR HATE WORDS IN THE TEXTS TO "HANG" THE DEMAND FOR EVICTING IT ON.
Astually the page stresses that most Muslims are humans just like anybody else, and should not be judged bad just because they are Muslims (even though parts of the moral code, parts of the sharia laws, parts of Islamic history of war and behaviour, parts of Muslim slave history, etc. may indicate this and that.)
Some hate page!
As far as I have seen it, it's still a hate site. Hatred is not as much evident in words as is in the intentions behind it- which are obvious for sites like these
Rabbeen Al Jihad

Salt Lake City, UT

#164 Oct 1, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you didnt bother to read the document I referred- it contains at least half a dozen Quranic verses which clearly deny the death penalty for apostacy. Quran has to take preference over Hadith in any case- but even then, the document discusses at length around pages 114-135 this particular hadith that you have quoted, plus a couple other narrated by supporters of death penalty- and a few that clearly negate this notion. Remember,the most important source of Islamic law after Quran is Sunnah- the actions of the Prophet- and NOT hadith. And the Sunnah has clearly proven against the death penalty (or for that matter any worldly penalty) for apostacy. I have seen that Islamic haters like you just pick up some hadith at random and start scolding Islam, without having a clue about Islamic fiqah laws, authentication of hadith, the sources and status of the laws etc.
Regarding my opposition to the law bcz of being Ahmadi, well that doesn't apply to me anyways even in the eyes of mullahs- bcz I am not an "apostate" to them but a born "kafir"- so that logic of yours is incorrect too. And though this might not be the right forum to discuss this, but being Ahmadi, I am proud to be following the real Islam- The power of knowledge & logics was given to the Promised Messiah of this age, the true follower of Muhammad (pbuh)- and he prophesized that his followers would continue in his mode- which is what I am trying to do.
And it is good that you do believe in a superior being- that means there is light inside you. I hope & pray somehow that works to at least reduce some hatred that you have against Islam.
Salaamz L4all. Great post & worthy of more than a cursory read,which is what SiKoFiT probably gave with only one eye open!LOL! Good to see another with scruples take a stand against the Hatemongerz here. Cheerz

Since: Jul 11

Brampton, Canada

#165 Oct 1, 2012
Rabbeen Al Jihad wrote:
<quoted text> Salaamz L4all. Great post & worthy of more than a cursory read,which is what SiKoFiT probably gave with only one eye open!LOL! Good to see another with scruples take a stand against the Hatemongerz here. Cheerz
Thanks buddy
naman

Oslo, Norway

#166 Oct 5, 2012
L4ALL wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no doubt in my mind about those verses describing the night journey. I know many tafasir describe it about the revelation from Gabriel, but not my version. And I already showed you one reference. Besides, I can discuss each and every of those verses with you to prove my point, but I believe it will be off-topic- still I have no problem whatsoever discussing them.
According to you - was the Night Journy a real trip or a dream? And what are the proofs behind your claim(s? Remember that in the Quran there just is a fleeting mentioning of the trip. Everything else is from folklore collected some 100 - 250 years later.

To be quite honest I neither very interested in what your old scholars said, nor very impressed from it. The reason is that they did not look for "what is the truth", but: "The Quran is the truth. How can we explain things in such a way that it looks the truth"?

Muslims all the time refer to what this and this have said. Are you not able to use your own brain?

http://www.1000mistakes.com

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