Zionism is Racism

Apr 25, 2009 | Posted by: Abu Najda | Full story: usa.mediamonitors.net

"Zionism is racism because it rejects unity of mankind by depicting Palestinians as inherently inferior, like "worms", having "genetic defects.""

The subject of racism is a very touchy one for both its current and former practitioners. It was thus expected that some western countries with nasty past records of racism would boycott the UN racism conference in Geneva, scheduled for April 20, 2009.

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“Peace, Justice, Honesty, Adab”

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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"A couple of days before the event, the USA announced that it would sit out the Geneva forum. Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Germany, Poland and the Netherlands soon followed suit. Through their boycotting the session they have sent a blatant message endorsing racism. "

This is one view of why the conference was boycotted. It is easy to see how the conclusion was arrived at.

This idea of Zionism being inherently racist makes a lot of sense to many Muslims.

In order to oppress the indigenous population as they have been - because they are Muslim and Arab - you need an ideology to do that. Zionism provides that.

The accusation levelled at Muslims is that their religion has this ideology - to justify acts of terror. While I know this not to be the case, it has not stopped people perverting the religion to serve their own ends. One wonders if this is what happened to Zionism - which was originally a response to racism against jews around the turn of the century.

How else did those rabbis encourage the IDF soldiers to kill as many as possible? Why else would they wear the t-shirts commemorating the killing of palestian pregnant women and children.

Does this make them extremists? I think so.

Since: Feb 09

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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Abu Najda wrote:
This idea of Zionism being inherently racist makes a lot of sense to many Muslims.
In order to oppress the indigenous population as they have been - because they are Muslim and Arab - you need an ideology to do that. Zionism provides that.
I am going to assume that this thread was not started because of malicious intent. I am instead going to assume that this thread and your viewpoints of Zionism are based from ignorance.

Zionism is not racism. Zionism is the self-determination and nationalist movement of the Jewish people.
http://www.zionism-israel.com/zionism_definit... :

"Zionism is the national revival movement of the Jewish people. It holds that the Jews have the right to self-determination in their own national home, and the right to develop their national culture. Historically, Zionism strove to create a legally recognized national home for the Jews in their historical homeland. This goal was implemented by the creation of the State of Israel. Today, Zionism supports the existence of the state of Israel and helps to inspire a revival of Jewish national life, culture and language."

If any tries to tell you that Zionism is something else (e.g. that this Jewish state must be 100% Jewish, that this Jewish state needs to have certain borders or has to have control over certain lands and areas) they are lying to you.

Jews wanting their own state is not any more racist than the Irish wanting their own state, the Kurds wanting their own state, the Japanese wanting their own state...and the Palestinians wanting their own state.

If you are going to call Zionism racism, then I guess the Palestinian nationalist movement is racist too! In that case, we'd better send them to Jordan and Egypt since we can't let them continue pursuing this racist ideology. Right?
Previous post is BULL

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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The Previous post about food is BULLSHIT!

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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Previous post is BULL wrote:
The Previous post about food is BULLSHIT!
It is not bullshit.

It is muslimshit.
Previous post is BULL

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#8
Apr 25, 2009
 

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pastuh wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not bullshit.
It is muslimshit.
Is there a difference?
Buford Hayse

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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From: http://www.zionismontheweb.org/antizionism/Zi...

So where does the idea that “Zionism is Racism” come from? On November 10th, 1975, the United Nations General Assembly adopted Resolution 3379, it labelled Zionism a form of racism. Some authors have contented that the motion and support for it was orchestrated by the USSR as part of their Zionology. The sponsors of the motion was the Arab block and the supporters those in the USSR’s sphere of influence through the cold war. 72 states voted for the motion to equate Zionism with Racism while 67 voted against or abstained (35 against, 32 abstained). The motion was resoundingly revoked (cancelled) in 1991 with 111 votes in favour, 25 against and 13 abstaining.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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It's amusing that Muslims should whinge about product being marked as Kosher for the benefit of observant Jews.

Here in South East Asia -- tens of thousands of products from all over the world are labeled as "Halal" for the benefit of Muslims who keep their rules

“Peace, Justice, Honesty, Adab”

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
I am going to assume that this thread was not started because of malicious intent.
I have no malicious intent, but this idea that the original ideology has been subverted did occur to me.
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
I am instead going to assume that this thread and your viewpoints of Zionism are based from ignorance.
OK
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
Zionism is not racism. Zionism is the self-determination and nationalist movement of the Jewish people.
http://www.zionism-israel.com/zionism_definit... :
"Zionism is the national revival movement of the Jewish people. It holds that the Jews have the right to self-determination in their own national home, and the right to develop their national culture. Historically, Zionism strove to create a legally recognized national home for the Jews in their historical homeland. This goal was implemented by the creation of the State of Israel. Today, Zionism supports the existence of the state of Israel and helps to inspire a revival of Jewish national life, culture and language."
I accept this is the definition, but does this still hold true?
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
If any tries to tell you that Zionism is something else (e.g. that this Jewish state must be 100% Jewish, that this Jewish state needs to have certain borders or has to have control over certain lands and areas) they are lying to you.
OK
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
Jews wanting their own state is not any more racist than the Irish wanting their own state, the Kurds wanting their own state, the Japanese wanting their own state...and the Palestinians wanting their own state.
I agree
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are going to call Zionism racism, then I guess the Palestinian nationalist movement is racist too! In that case, we'd better send them to Jordan and Egypt since we can't let them continue pursuing this racist ideology. Right?
The assumption here is the ideology remains true to it's original intent. And where do the indigenous population fit into this, and the annexing of Jerusalem.

I take a pragmatic view on this issue. I despise the atrocities that have taken place. And to be fair this has not been one sided on the part of Israel in that they are responding - but their latest response has been roundly condemned as immoral - which I agree with. Where does this come from? If it is not inspired by Zionism. There were reports of rabbis encouraging IDF soldiers to show no mercy. This is not my understanding of the Jewish faith.

So back to my original point, has Zionism been subverted for political ends? Is this manifest in the spectrum of the Israeli political parties?

I guess I answered my own question. Thank you for this post.

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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Previous post is BULL wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there a difference?
Of course. Bullshit is less stinky.
Previous post is BULL

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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Ignore the previous posts about Kosher food tax as this is MUSLIMSHIT (more stinky), as opposed to BULLSHIT! This stinkiness factor has been pointed out by Pastuh.Thank you!
Previous post is BULL

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When the real fearless gets back he is going to take a big bite out of this sham fearless's butt!

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Abu Najda wrote:
<quoted text>
The assumption here is the ideology remains true to it's original intent. And where do the indigenous population fit into this, and the annexing of Jerusalem.
I take a pragmatic view on this issue. I despise the atrocities that have taken place. And to be fair this has not been one sided on the part of Israel in that they are responding - but their latest response has been roundly condemned as immoral - which I agree with. Where does this come from? If it is not inspired by Zionism. There were reports of rabbis encouraging IDF soldiers to show no mercy. This is not my understanding of the Jewish faith.
So back to my original point, has Zionism been subverted for political ends? Is this manifest in the spectrum of the Israeli political parties?
I guess I answered my own question. Thank you for this post.
1) Please remember what I said before. Zionism is the political movement to create a Jewish state. If someone tells you what something else is due to Zionism, they are incorrect. Therefore, treatment of the so-called "indigenous population" (a misleading term at best) and the desire to have control over Jerusalem are due to other factors (including the Jewish desire to have control over their holiest site) but Zionism isn't one of them.

2)I don't think you'll find many people being in favor of atrocities. But Israel's military actions have nothing to do with Zionism and everything to do with self-defense. Only tangentially could you blame Zionism for those military actions, as Zionism created the state that those military actions defend. But that seems like kind of a weak argument.

3)Similarly, rabbis encouraging the IDF to show no mercy has nothing to do with Zionism either. However, you should know that there is a quote in the Torah (iirc) that tells Jews that to be merciful to the merciless is an invitation for the merciless to kill you. Which is usually interpreted as not to be merciful to cold-blooded enemy fighters...but not civilians.

4) I don't think Zionism has been subverted; how could it be? Zionism is basically "Israel supporting" at this point, and I don't think you'll find many political parties that don't want the state they are a part of to exist.

Now that we have covered all this, do you *still* think that Zionism is racism? You haven't done a particularly good job of defending this accusation once I pointed out what Zionism really is. Thanks.

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#19
Apr 25, 2009
 
Abu Najda wrote:
"A couple of days before the event, the USA announced that it would sit out the Geneva forum. Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Germany, Poland and the Netherlands soon followed suit. Through their boycotting the session they have sent a blatant message endorsing racism. "
This is one view of why the conference was boycotted. It is easy to see how the conclusion was arrived at.
This idea of Zionism being inherently racist makes a lot of sense to many Muslims.
In order to oppress the indigenous population as they have been - because they are Muslim and Arab - you need an ideology to do that. Zionism provides that.
The accusation levelled at Muslims is that their religion has this ideology - to justify acts of terror. While I know this not to be the case, it has not stopped people perverting the religion to serve their own ends. One wonders if this is what happened to Zionism - which was originally a response to racism against jews around the turn of the century.
How else did those rabbis encourage the IDF soldiers to kill as many as possible? Why else would they wear the t-shirts commemorating the killing of palestian pregnant women and children.
Does this make them extremists? I think so.
Most people who know about the politics Isreal will know this really isnt news.

“Peace, Justice, Honesty, Adab”

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First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
1) Please remember what I said before. Zionism is the political movement to create a Jewish state. If someone tells you what something else is due to Zionism, they are incorrect. Therefore, treatment of the so-called "indigenous population" (a misleading term at best) and the desire to have control over Jerusalem are due to other factors (including the Jewish desire to have control over their holiest site) but Zionism isn't one of them.
You assert the behaviour of the Israeli state toward Palestinians is informed Judaism?
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
2)I don't think you'll find many people being in favor of atrocities. But Israel's military actions have nothing to do with Zionism and everything to do with self-defense.
How do you justify the use of disproportionate force as 'self-defence'. Disproportionate force implies the punishment of the entire population and not just those individuals who are 'resisting occupation'. Is this zionist in it's origin or is from judaism?
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
Only tangentially could you blame Zionism for those military actions, as Zionism created the state that those military actions defend. But that seems like kind of a weak argument.
I agree. This argument does not work. I refer you back to my previous question.
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
3)Similarly, rabbis encouraging the IDF to show no mercy has nothing to do with Zionism either. However, you should know that there is a quote in the Torah (iirc) that tells Jews that to be merciful to the merciless is an invitation for the merciless to kill you. Which is usually interpreted as not to be merciful to cold-blooded enemy fighters...but not civilians.
And yet 300 children in cold blood. IDF T-shirts celebrating their atrocities. Is this what is to be a good Jew?
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
4) I don't think Zionism has been subverted; how could it be?
Very easily I am afraid. Self defence implies sufficient force to keep one safe. Self defence is not offensive. How does anyone justify over 1400 people killed? In response with what? 10 home made rockets? 20 home made rockets then.
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
Zionism is basically "Israel supporting" at this point, and I don't think you'll find many political parties that don't want the state they are a part of to exist.
Meaning Zionism was something else before.
First Lensman wrote:
<quoted text>
Now that we have covered all this, do you *still* think that Zionism is racism? You haven't done a particularly good job of defending this accusation once I pointed out what Zionism really is.
I am unconvinced at this point. Israeli policy toward the Palestinian makes what you say hard to justify. Are you really saying it;s the Jewish faith that drives their actions? Many jews I have met condemn violence.

Is this true:
[Zionism] claims that the Jews are superior to all other races;
[Zionism] grants exclusive right of Jews around the world to Israeli citizenship while denying the non-Jews the same privilege;
[Zionism] attributes an inferior social, economic and political status to the non-Jewish population of Israel;
[Zionism] encourages immigration of Jews into Israeli and emigration and deportation of non-Jews from Israel;

I could go on.

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http://www.topix.com/religion/islam/2009/04/i...

Interesting post from YWN
Buford Hayse

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Abu Najda wrote:
http://www.topix.net/religion/ islam/2009/04/israel-plays-hol ocaust-card-against-ahmadineja d/p4#c74
Interesting post from YWN
You'd almost think that it was the Zionists and not the Nazis who operated the death camps, eh, Abu?
Buford Hayse

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[Zionism] claims that the Jews are superior to all other races;
[Zionism] grants exclusive right of Jews around the world to Israeli citizenship while denying the non-Jews the same privilege;
[Zionism] attributes an inferior social, economic and political status to the non-Jewish population of Israel;
[Zionism] encourages immigration of Jews into Israeli and emigration and deportation of non-Jews from Israel.~Abu Najda

What strikes me is how very like Wahabbi Islam Zionism is!

What is it about Abraham's kids and their insufferable "We are the chosen people!" mentality? Maybe it's something in the water...
YWN

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Buford Hayse wrote:
[Zionism] claims that the Jews are superior to all other races;

[Zionism] grants exclusive right of Jews around the world to Israeli citizenship while denying the non-Jews the same privilege;

[Zionism] attributes an inferior social, economic and political status to the non-Jewish population of Israel;

[Zionism] encourages immigration of Jews into Israeli and emigration and deportation of non-Jews from Israel.~Abu Najda

What strikes me is how very like Wahabbi Islam Zionism is!

What is it about Abraham's kids and their insufferable "We are the chosen people!"

mentality? Maybe it's something in the water...
Can say that again, bro -

I tell ya what, Buford - May be those who claim to be children of Abraham (Jews, Christians, Muslims) better go back to what Jesus said here and study it good -

"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him,

'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?'

'The most important one,' answered Jesus,'is this:

'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.'

The second is this:

'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

Upon these two commandments hang ALL the Law and the Prophets."

Or so I think at least - For there's a lot_a lot packed in what Jesus said there -

Hmmm ...
Tango Bravo

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Apr 25, 2009
 

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Abu Najda wrote:
"A couple of days before the event, the USA announced that it would sit out the Geneva forum. Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Germany, Poland and the Netherlands soon followed suit. Through their boycotting the session they have sent a blatant message endorsing racism. "
This is one view of why the conference was boycotted. It is easy to see how the conclusion was arrived at.
This idea of Zionism being inherently racist makes a lot of sense to many Muslims.
In order to oppress the indigenous population as they have been - because they are Muslim and Arab - you need an ideology to do that. Zionism provides that.
The accusation levelled at Muslims is that their religion has this ideology - to justify acts of terror. While I know this not to be the case, it has not stopped people perverting the religion to serve their own ends. One wonders if this is what happened to Zionism - which was originally a response to racism against jews around the turn of the century.
How else did those rabbis encourage the IDF soldiers to kill as many as possible? Why else would they wear the t-shirts commemorating the killing of palestian pregnant women and children.
Does this make them extremists? I think so.
I think Jay should consider letting Abu do his opening monologue. Show of hands?
Buford Hayse

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YWN wrote:
Can say that again, bro -
I tell ya what, Buford - May be those who claim to be children of Abraham (Jews, Christians, Muslims) better go back to what Jesus said here and study it good -
"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him,
'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?'
'The most important one,' answered Jesus,'is this:
'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.'
The second is this:
'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
Upon these two commandments hang ALL the Law and the Prophets."
Or so I think at least - For there's a lot_a lot packed in what Jesus said there -
Hmmm ...
Hmmm is right.

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