Islam Losing Ground to Christianity

Islam Losing Ground to Christianity

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Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#1 Aug 2, 2011
Christianity may be declining in the West and Islam is surging, but in the world as a whole, it’s a different story.

It’s true that Islam (also atheism and universalism) is growing in the West, mostly because of high birth rates among Muslims and immigration, but the exploding growth of evangelical Christianity around the world through conversion is unreported. The analysis is distorted because of the lack of reporting from places like Africa, where nearly half of the population is estimated to be Christian. In other places like China, news of such trends is suppressed, leaving few to know that some estimates put the Christian population there at up to 111 million. There may be more members in the underground evangelical movement there than in the 75-million strong Chinese Communist Party. It’s been reported that 10,000 Chinese convert to Christianity per day. That number may be a stretch, but if current trends hold, predictions that China will become the country with the largest number of Christians by the middle of the century could come true.

The image in one’s mind of a Christian is usually of an American or European. The decline of Christianity in the West gives the impression that the religion is collapsing when it is really transforming. In Dinesh D’Souza’s What’s So Great About Christianity, he writes that in 1900, over 80 percent of Christians lived in Europe and the U.S. Now, two out of three evangelicals live in Asia, Africa, and South America. South Korea now holds the title as the second-place country in sending out missionaries, despite the fact that the number one country, the U.S., has over six times as many people.

..

It is much harder to detect “Friday Muslims” in the Islamic world than it is “Sunday Christians” in the West because of the societal repercussions and the suppression of other religions. Those questioning their faith are likely to keep it private and still go to mosque even if they party on the weekends. The dismal state of the Islamic world economically and politically and the savagery of extremism is turning many Muslims away. For example, I’ve been surprised at how many Iranians I’ve communicated with are atheists or aren’t devout Muslims. There is a clandestine movement to acquire Bibles and practice Christianity in private homes, as up to 1 million are said to have turned to Christianity in the past five years.

This is a problem that raises significant concern in the Muslim world, but the West misses it. In April 2008, Andrew Walden wrote a top-notch piece here at Pajamas Media about this phenomenon. One top Islamic scholar in Libya says that 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity every day and Walden writes that evangelist Wolfgang Simpson says that “more Muslims have come to Christ in the last two decades than in all of history.” He writes that the mufti of the Malaysian state of Perak says that about 250,000 Muslims in his country have filed to officially leave Islam, including 100,000 that have converted to Christianity. The mufti warned that this number doesn’t include those who are non-practicing Muslims.

It is undeniable that Islam is growing in the West, but there are signs that the number of Muslims that don’t diligently practice the faith is increasing just as is the case with Christianity. In February 2005, the Sunday Times wrote that “one estimate suggests that as many as 15 per cent of Muslims in Western societies have lost their faith.” A Pew poll in July 2007 found that Muslim-Americans are in third place in how many describe religion as playing a “very important” role in their lives, with 72 percent affirming the statement as compared to 79 percent of white evangelicals and 85 percent of black Protestants. Most interestingly, only 50 percent of Muslim-Americans take their holy book, the Koran, literally, whereas 66 percent of white evangelicals and 68 percent of black Protestants take the Bible literally.

www.geneveith.com/2010/08/12/islam-losing-gro...

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#2 Aug 2, 2011
It is undeniable that the poor and the illiterate of the third world convert to christianity for food and water, not for the wonderfulness of the bible or its unknown writers.
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#3 Aug 2, 2011
Sarah ___ wrote:
It is undeniable that the poor and the illiterate of the third world convert to christianity for food and water, not for the wonderfulness of the bible or its unknown writers.
Wrong, Sarah, this is what muslims claim.

Historically, christianity thrives despite people being persecuted.

Just look at china: christians have to face persecution in China (nothing enjoyable physically) and they are the fastest growing church in the world.

Look at South Korea, they are very well off financially, christianity is growing fast.

Surely in Africa, christians bring food and care to the poor, not out of trying to convert people (many christian organizations never). Are you under estimating African people's capability to detect kindness? Why should they believe been drawn to Islam when muslims don't help but destroy?
naman

Norway

#4 Aug 2, 2011
Sarah ___ wrote:
It is undeniable that the poor and the illiterate of the third world convert to christianity for food and water, not for the wonderfulness of the bible or its unknown writers.
Where is your documentation for that this is the reality?

http://www.1000mistakes.com
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#5 Aug 2, 2011
Sarah ___ wrote:
It is undeniable that the poor and the illiterate of the third world convert to christianity for food and water, not for the wonderfulness of the bible or its unknown writers.
you should really step away from muslims news network and see for yourself why most people favor christianity over islam (those who are receptive to religions). Rarely do you see people "choose" Islam without been born into one, been married to one, and been forced to remain one.

What make you think people would think more favorably about Muhammad of Islam than Jesus of christianity? Muhammad shows everything human for his sexual desires, murders and order of murders, wars, revenges - characteristics we have seen in many human leaders, and muslims rightly defended him by saying "But he was just a human like us!", as if that is enough to defend his godliness?

Maybe Jesus's teachings and life is more attractive to most human, not necessarily those who believe in God.
Ramadan Gift

Jersey City, NJ

#6 Aug 2, 2011
Sarah ___ wrote:
It is undeniable that the poor and the illiterate of the third world convert to christianity for food and water, not for the wonderfulness of the bible or its unknown writers.
OR maybe it is because many Muslim nations are barbaric like Somaila. Or Because in Ramadan slims are killing Muslims in Syria and Yemen and Libya... Why be Muslim when only Christian nations will lift a finger to help starving Muslims.....

Internally displaced Somalis carry their belongings - Source: Reuters
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Somalian crisis worsens (2:02)
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Up to six more Somalia regions may face famine - UN
Militants block aid in Somalia famine (1:45)
The United States is working to get more relief into famine-ravaged southern Somalia and is reassuring aid agencies they will not be penalised for programs in regions controlled by al Shabaab rebels.

"We have issued new guidance to allow more flexibility and to allow a wider range of aid to a larger number of areas in need," one US official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"Humanitarian assistance organisations that have good faith efforts to deliver food to people in need will not risk prosecution."

The United States has placed al Shabaab on its official list of foreign terrorist organisations, a designation which forbids US groups from providing "material support" to the group that controls large parts of the Horn of Africa nation.

The designation has complicated international aid efforts for Somalia, where a famine is spreading and some 3.7 million people are in urgent need of assistance in southern regions, many of them in areas controlled by al Shabaab.

The US officials declined to say what specific steps are being taken to lift the threat of prosecution for aid flowing into al Shabaab regions. But they said aid organisations should feel confident they can step up efforts to provide assistance in the worst-hit areas.

Concerns over possible diversion of relief supplies to al Shabaab prompted a number of international aid organisations to suspend programs in southern Somalia in January 2010 and continue to constrain aid work, the US officials said.

Al Shabaab has given conflicting signals about whether aid programs will be allowed to resume but the US officials said they believed that, at least in some hard-hit parts of Somalia, it would be possible to get assistance in.

"We don't expect there to be any grand bargain where we'll be able to have access to all of southern Somalia," a second US official said.

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"(But) we believe there will be ways and opportunities to move selectively into southern Somalia."

The United Nations' humanitarian aid chief said the famine in the Horn of Africa is spreading and may soon engulf as many as six more regions of Somalia.

The United States has already started to move emergency food supplies into the region, with some 19,000 metric tonnes of assistance delivered last week.

The officials stressed the new aid guidelines would include risk mitigation procedures designed to prevent al Shabaab from profiting from any aid diversions but they conceded that some spill over was possible.

"There is some risk of diversion," the first official said. "We're gong to do everything we can to prevent that diversion ... but I think the dimensions of this famine, this humanitarian crisis, are such that we've got to put taking care of people first."
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#7 Aug 2, 2011
Pawn-King-Nine wrote:
One top Islamic scholar in Libya says that 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity every day and Walden writes that evangelist Wolfgang Simpson says that “more Muslims have come to Christ in the last two decades than in all of history.”

He writes that the mufti of the Malaysian state of Perak says that about 250,000 Muslims in his country have filed to officially leave Islam, including 100,000 that have converted to Christianity. The mufti warned that this number doesn’t include those who are non-practicing Muslims.
I won't check the Libyan apostasy number stated above, but out of curiosity, I went to a muslims web site in Malaysia for confirmation about the mufti's statement - they acknowledged "the problem" and clearly the muslim community went into a panic mode when they posted this:(translation see next post)

"Kita tidak ada pilihan dan mesti mengambil tindakan proaktif kerana ini soal kewajipan dan tanggungjawab memelihara aqidah umat Islam dan mempertahankan ajaran Islam," kata Ketua Dewan Pemuda PAS, Salahuddin Ayub yang akan membentangkannya bagi pihak PAS.

Kes-kes murtad pada hari ini, katanya, sudah sampai ke tahap merbahaya dan PAS mesti bertindak segera bagi mempertahankan kesucian ajaran Islam yang semakin tercabar akibat perlaksanaan yang tidak menyeluruh.

Beliau yang juga Ahli Parlimen Kubang Kerian menjelaskan, jika kes-kes murtad tidak ditangani dengan undang-undang yang tegas, ia bukan sahaja mengakibatkan sikap ambil mudah untuk keluar dari Islam malah menggalakkan penyebaran agama lain ke atas umat Islam.

"Sama ada kita sedar atau tidak, membiarkan tidak terlaksananya undang-undang murtad bermakna membuka jalan, mendorong, menyokong dan mendukung penyebaran agama lain di kalangan umat Islam dan kita tidak mampu lagi untuk terus bergelumang dosa," tegas beliau.

Baru-baru ini, Mufti Besar Negeri Perak, Dato' Seri Haji Harussani Haji Zakaria mendedahkan, terdapat hampir 250,000 umat Islam yang murtad di negara ini.

Bilangan tersebut termasuk kira-kira 100,000 orang-orang Islam Melayu yang telah mengistiharkan diri mereka masuk Kristian.

100,000 orang lagi, kata Harussani, sedang membuat permohonan menunggu untuk murtad. Selebihnya, tegas beliau, termasuk mereka yang memohon untuk menukar nama Islam di dalam kad pengenalan kepada nama fahaman lain.

Beliau juga memberitahu, pihaknya menerima sepucuk surat dari Persatuan Mubaligh Kristian Amerika yang menuduh Pejabat Agama Islam di sini bersifat zalim kerana tidak benarkan 30,000 orang Islam Melayu untuk masuk Kristian.

Salahuddin seterusnya memberitahu, bagi menyiapkan draf rang undang-undang itu, PAS telah membentuk satu jawatankuasa khas yang diketuai oleh Pengerusi Lujnah Undang-Undang PAS, Hanifah Mydin.

Sebagai langkah awal, kata Salahuddin, PAS akan menyerahkan rang undang-undang itu kepada semua mufti di negeri-negeri, alim ulama, Menteri di Jabatan Perdana Menteri yang berkenaan dan ahli-ahli Dewan Rakyat serta Dewan Negara bagi mendapatkan sokongan moral kepada rang undang-undang itu.

"Kita mengambil langkah tersebut kerana tanggungjawab ini adalah tangungjawab semua pihak di dalam negara bagi memastikan keselamatan dan ketenteraman awam dapat dikekalkan," katanya.

Beliau mengambil contoh kes murtad Noraishah Bukhari dan Hartina Kamaruddin yang dikendalikan oleh PAS sebelum ini di mana susulan dari peristiwa murtad itu, berlaku pelbagai peristiwa yang menggugat dan mengancam keselamatan dan ketenteraman awam.

"Jangan tunggu berlaku satu lagi peristiwa Natrah," beliau mengingatkan.

Rang undang-undang itu, yang akan menangani kes-kes murtad di Wilayah Persekutuan, akan dibentangkan di bawah peraturan Dewan Rakyat yang memberikan kuasa Ahli Parlimen yang bukan ahli kerajaan mengemukakan rang undang-undang...

http://harakahdaily.net/v2/index.php/utama/in...
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#8 Aug 2, 2011
Don't expect Pawn to do the translation-lah! Machine can do it just fine (a little funny sometimes, but understandable)

Google-Translation of last post:

http://translate.google.com/translate...

"We have no choice and must take proactive because this question of the duty and responsibility of maintaining the faith of Muslims and defending Islam," said PAS Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub who will present them on behalf of PAS.

Cases of apostate today, he said, has reached dangerous levels and PAS must act immediately to defend the sanctity of Islam increasingly challenged by a non-exhaustive exercise.

He is also Member of Parliament for Kubang Kerian explained, if the cases are not dealt with the apostasy law firm, it is not only caused the attitude to take it easy to get out of Islam but also encourage the spread of other religions to Muslims.

"Whether we realize it or not, let not the implementation of the law of apostasy means paving the way, encourage, support and promote the spread of other religions among Muslims, and we could not afford to continue to wallow sin," he said.

Recently, the Grand Mufti of Perak, Dato 'Seri Haji Zakaria Haji Harussani reveals there are almost 250,000 Muslims of apostasy in this country.

The number includes about 100,000 Malay Muslims who have declared themselves Christians.

100,000 more people, said Harussani, is making the application wait for apostasy. Selebihnya, tegas beliau, termasuk mereka yang memohon untuk menukar nama Islam di dalam kad pengenalan kepada nama fahaman lain. The rest, he said, including those seeking to change the name of Islam in the identity card to the name of other faiths.

He also said the department received a letter from the Association of American Christian missionaries who accuse the Islamic Religious Office here is wrong because Islam does not allow 30,000 people to a Christian Malays.

Saladin then told, to complete a draft bill, the PAS has formed a special committee headed by the Chairman of the Legal Lujnah PAS, Hanifah Maidin.

As a first step, said Salahuddin, PAS will submit the bill to all the mufti in the states, scholars, Minister in the Prime Minister and members of the House of Representatives and Senate for their moral support to the bill the law.

"We take these measures because the responsibility is responsibility of all parties in the country to ensure security and public order is maintained," he said.

He took the example of apostasy case Noraishah Hartina Bukhari and operated by PAS Kamaruddin before in any follow-up of fallen events, there were great events that disrupt and threaten security and public order.

"Do not wait another incident occurred Natrah," he warned.

The bill, which would deal with cases of apostasy in the Northern Territory, will be presented under the rules of the House of Representatives gave the MPs who are not members of the government to submit the bill, the Bill for Non-Members of the Government.

The next session of the House of Representatives is expected to begin this March 13.
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#9 Aug 2, 2011
Another related article in Malaysian language, from the same web site:

http://www.harakahdaily.net/v2/index.php...

and Google-translation here:

The creed of the people down after 50 years of independence - Nik Amar

Nik Amar, who is also Executive Councillor for Education and Information State Government of Kelantan, said independence would be meaningless if people were not free the soul, intellect, political, economic and dudaya.

"An example close our country has been independent since even 50 years ago but the people are poor and declining in terms of faith. Includes 250,000 Malays have fallen out by the Mufti of Perak, Dato 'Seri Harussaini Zakaria," he said speaking at the close of the High Mosque here in conjunction with PAS Perak 50 Years of Independence.

Nik Amar, even if the statement is disputed by the leadership of Mufti Raman and his ministers, but he believes the figures are not only true but perhaps more from the latter.

Nik Amar, even if the statement is disputed by the leadership of Mufti Raman and his ministers, but he believes the figures are not only true but perhaps more from the latter.

"Because when we say the question of apostasy is not only meant to be filled out to change the name as desired by Lina Joy, but the fallen can happen in a way that we are not aware or the act is unintentional," he said.

""If we refer to the book of Hadith Mustika issue by the Prime Minister said the instruction written by the former Prime Minister Datuk Hussein Onn, I am sure the number of Malaysia apostasy is to increase the number of total referred to it," he said.

According to him, God so hates apostasy, even though there is only one, is already considered a major disaster to themselves, society and country as well as Muslims.

"Moreover, the country was declared as Islamic countries Hidhari. This should take care of every Muslim faith community leaders. Not build roads beautiful, not build hospitals, not only to build schools and mosques around the beautiful place alone, "he said.

No doubt all the infrastructure is important, but guarded the faith of Muslims is the most important and must be done by individuals and leaders of Islamic countries, he said.

"So the Prophet said, the best period is the period I, kemudaian next period is during the first 300 years seterusnya.Kemudiannya the time of the companions, the cause of the Islamic Caliphate," he said citing the Prophet Muhammad / wann.
Ramadan Gift

Jersey City, NJ

#10 Aug 2, 2011
Ramadan is for muslims to starve their own in Somalia? Tanks in Syria.... Bombs in Pakistan?

“not that tom!”

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

#11 Aug 2, 2011
Pawn-King-Nine wrote:
<quoted text>
you should really step away from muslims news network and see for yourself why most people favor christianity over islam (those who are receptive to religions). Rarely do you see people "choose" Islam without been born into one, been married to one, and been forced to remain one.
What make you think people would think more favorably about Muhammad of Islam than Jesus of christianity? Muhammad shows everything human for his sexual desires, murders and order of murders, wars, revenges - characteristics we have seen in many human leaders, and muslims rightly defended him by saying "But he was just a human like us!", as if that is enough to defend his godliness?
Maybe Jesus's teachings and life is more attractive to most human, not necessarily those who believe in God.
Christianity is on the increase in the UK. Mainly due to the influx of Catholic Eastern Europeans who have put roots down.
People don't realise how much their faith means to them until something major hits.
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#12 Aug 2, 2011
tom_ wrote:
Christianity is on the increase in the UK.
Mainly due to the influx of Catholic Eastern Europeans who have put roots down.
People don't realise how much their faith means to them until something major hits.
I can tell you this: as a chinese with Malaysia origin, as with chinese from mainland/taiwan/hong kong, we appreciate Judeo-christian heritage much more than the Islamic culture. You can count on us to vote against Sharia.

China is currently catching up with western heritage, its arts, classical musics etc... very receptive of the decent ones. For example, they learned to enjoy classical Piano, and have produced some world class pianists like Lang Lang and Yundi li, with many younger ones in production.
I can read

Edinburgh, UK

#13 Aug 2, 2011
Sounds like both religions are decreasing which is possibly the best news the human race ever got.
Quiet_Dave

Tucson, AZ

#14 Aug 2, 2011
Listening to a member of the Arabic translating staff for my faith, (Latter-day Saint) I am led to understand that there are over 5,000 secret members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Saudi Arabia alone. Secret, only because it is a capital offense to leave Islam for a different faith. Wherever there is equal access and the liberality to allow freedom of conscious, Christianity thrives. It is still weak in Europe, only because so many of the churches there are or were state supported and their membership required no sacrifice or participation, beyond paying resented taxes to support their clergy. The evangelical movement, the Latter-day Saints, and other demanding faiths, draw members because they demand a real commitment, a real emotional investment into living the faith.
Amelia

Tucson, AZ

#15 Aug 3, 2011
As long as Muslims breed like cockroaches, eventually the world will be overrun by them. They immigrate to western nations to take advantage of the perks and keep reproducing, some on the public welfare system for years.

They haven't discovered self-control, let alone birth control because that's forbidden---more Muslims for Allah at public expense!
more truth

Tallahassee, FL

#16 Aug 3, 2011
A pastor once told me that a state church was more likely to go dead.
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#17 Aug 3, 2011
more truth wrote:
A pastor once told me that a state church was more likely to go dead.
Probably for a good reason... thats why churches rather go underground in China.
nuff said

Welland, Canada

#18 Aug 3, 2011
Sarah ___ wrote:
It is undeniable that the poor and the illiterate of the third world convert to christianity for food and water, not for the wonderfulness of the bible or its unknown writers.
It is undeniable that the poor and the illiterate of the third world
are mostly of your faith islam
Stanislaus

Mississauga, Canada

#19 Aug 3, 2011
naman wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is your documentation for that this is the reality?
http://www.1000mistakes.com
Christianity: The fastest growing religion in Iran ...
By LibraryOfChrist · 3 min · 1,497 views · Added 07/07/2010
07/07/2010 · A news report about the Christians of Iran: Christianity in Iran has a long and rich history, dating back to the birth of faith itself. It has always been a ...

www.youtube.com/watch...
David

Mississauga, Canada

#20 Aug 3, 2011
Sarah ___ wrote:
It is undeniable that the poor and the illiterate of the third world convert to christianity for food and water, not for the wonderfulness of the bible or its unknown writers.
In Pakistan underground churches are springing up,and Muslim are converting to Christianity:XXYOUTUBE-oXZCXIe g1hYXX&feature=related

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