Jesus is not God

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#663 Apr 18, 2013
Rabbeen Al Jihad wrote:
Salaamz! LOL! The holy messenger and Prophet Jesus(pbuh) could never Be a god.He hasnt the sack for it! Not to put too fine a point on it but the only way thats even rationally posible is if GOD-HIMSELF made JC a God! and we all know THAT is never going to Happen.LOL! Cheerz
Jesus also said Muslims must be reborn again, and Muslims reject being born again.
John 3:5
New International Version (©2011)
Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Being reborn again is being baptized in the name of:
Matthew 28:19
New International Version (©2011)
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Muslims religion of Muhammad's Islam can not save anyone from the fires of hell.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#664 Apr 18, 2013
Lily wrote:
1. Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity
One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):
(i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]
2. The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh)– to Fulfill the Law
Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]
3. God Sent Jesus'(pbuh)
The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:
(i)"… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
[The Bible, John 14:24]
(ii)"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
[The Bible, John 17:3]
Jesus also said Muslims must be reborn again, and Muslims reject being born again.
John 3:5
New International Version (©2011)
Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Being reborn again is being baptized in the name of:
Matthew 28:19
New International Version (©2011)
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Muslims religion of Muhammad's Islam can not save anyone from the fires of hell.
Isreality

Pittsfield, MA

#665 Apr 18, 2013
You are one blind Sheeple Shamma.
Jesus said he wasn't God. it is you blind baalievers that says he is.
Wake up

What part of Jesus said "God is greater than I", don't you understand?
Isreality

Pittsfield, MA

#666 Apr 18, 2013
Give it up Simple Shamma the blind Sheeple.... You are fighting a losing battle.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#667 Apr 18, 2013
Isreality wrote:
You are one blind Sheeple Shamma.
Jesus said he wasn't God. it is you blind baalievers that says he is.
Wake up
What part of Jesus said "God is greater than I", don't you understand?
What don't you understand about this dumb ass Muslim?
Jesus made the following statement.

You heard that I said to you,‘I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I (John 14:28).

This statement has been thought to mean that Jesus is something less than God the Father. However this is not what Jesus said. He was not comparing his nature with that of God the Father. Rather he was comparing their positions.

He Was Lesser In Position When He Came To Earth

When Jesus came to earth he came in the form of a servant. This is also known as His humiliation. The Apostle Paul wrote.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a human, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).

Jesus Has Now Been Exalted

Jesus has now been exalted. Continuing his thought in Philippians, Paul wrote.

For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).

You have a low class mind like Muhammad.
You are just a dumb ass Muslim.
All you have left in your life Israelity is to do evil.

Rabbeen Al Jihad

Salt Lake City, UT

#668 Apr 18, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus also said Muslims must be reborn again, and Muslims reject being born again.
John 3:5
New International Version (©2011)
Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
Being reborn again is being baptized in the name of:
Matthew 28:19
New International Version (©2011)
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Muslims religion of Muhammad's Islam can not save anyone from the fires of hell.
Salaamz Shamma. Great post! However consider this.Its not who you know,or even what you know.its what you do that really counts.There are saints that are not christian,nor Muslim,nor buddhist,but because of their compassion for humanity and doing good,they shall have seats around the Almighty.They may never have seen the inside of a church,nor gazed upon scripture,but the Almighty know His creations Far better than WE.I guess you could say it is HIS CALL after all as to who enters the gates of heaven and who does not. Personally,Im a little gun-shy of anyone who says " Im the only way to heaven!" LOL! Take most religions for example.They all claim to have the only little red telephone to god! That should be everyones first clue that something isnt right! CheerZ
Lily

Bristol, UK

#669 Apr 18, 2013
4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him,‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him,‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]
Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

5. Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God

The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
[The Bible, Acts 2:22]

6. The First Commandment is that God is One

The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]
It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’(pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.
Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.

NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

III) Concept of God in Old Testament:

1. God is One

The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".
It is a Hebrew quotation which means:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]

2. Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah

The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:

(i) "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]

(ii) "I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]

(iii) "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]

3. Old Testament condemns idol worship

(i) Old Testament condemns idol worship in the following verses:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Exodus 20:3-5]

(ii) A similar message is repeated in the book of Deuteronomy:

"Thou shalt have none other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth."

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 5:7-9]
Lily

Bristol, UK

#670 Apr 18, 2013
Jesus (pbuh)is not God. He never claimed Divinity

Al-Qur'an 5:72
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

John 14:28
You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Mathew 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Luke 11:20
But if I force out demons with the help of God's power, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

99 Attributes of Almighty God

Al-Qur'an 17:110
Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way.

H. Prefer using name ‘Allah’ rather than the word ‘God’ as the word ‘God’ can be played around with. Allah in the Bible – Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani

Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mathew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Eric

United States

#671 Apr 18, 2013
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM... what would you call this?
Lily

Bristol, UK

#672 Apr 18, 2013
Concept of God in Islam and Christianity

Al-Qur'an 112:1-4
"Say: He is Allah,
The One and Only.
"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute.
"He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him."

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Shirk – Biggest Sin

Al-Qur'an 4:48
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.

Al-Qur'an 4:116
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly gone far astray.

Exodus 20:2-5

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Deuteronomy 5:7-9

7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

In the last, I would finish my post with this verse:

On John 3:34: The man whom God has sent speaks God's message. After all, God gives him the Spirit without limit.
Lily

Bristol, UK

#673 Apr 18, 2013
Eric wrote:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM... what would you call this?
In Bible it said sometimes that he is greater than the father and sometimes that he and the father are one, people really need to decide and choose which statement will be the correct one.

Trinitarians do not believe Jesus is the Father. Are you quoting John 10:30 to try and show that Jesus is equal to the Father? Well that isn’t true, since the Gospel of John shows the opposite, in fact if we quote one verse back we read:

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

This is verse 29, it comes right before verse 30, and in verse 29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father. So therefore how to Christians try and assume that this verse shows equality between Jesus and the Father is beyond me, just a verse before it Jesus says the Father is greater than everyone!

In fact this is not the first time that Jesus says the Father is greater than him, he does it again later:

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28)

So here we once again have Jesus claiming the Father is greater than him, so how is Jesus equal to the Father when Jesus says the contrary? Now Christians have come up with a way of trying to explain this verse off, they say that Jesus was talking as a man here, that as a man the Father is greater than him, they try and say that the Father meant he is greater than Jesus in rank and authority and not in essence.

However so what did Jesus mean in John 10 when Jesus said the Father is greater than ALL? Jesus placed himself in the category of ALL people, so therefore the Christian response will not work for John 10:29. It must be said though that the Christian response does not work for John chapter 14:28 neither, because the Christian argues from silence and is arguing something they have yet to prove. Christians cannot prove that Jesus has 2 natures, they can never get a single quote from the lips of Jesus saying I am man and Divine, that I have 2 natures and I gave one up and took on the man nature, this is non-existent, so therefore the response is from silence provided with no proof or a solid basis.

1-The fact is the Bible shows that the Father is greater than Jesus in essence, the Father is all-knowing and Jesus is not.

2-The Father gives Jesus everything from miracle to doctrine.

3-Jesus begs the Father to save him, obviously showing that life and death is controlled by the Father and NOT Jesus.

For all these arguments the Christian will say as man Jesus is not all-knowing, as man Jesus receives things from the Father, however so I will kindly ask the Christian bring this proof from the words of Jesus, you shall never be able to do it, this doctrine is an invention and not something to be found from Jesus.

So therefore in conclusion, John 10:30 proves nothing in support of the divinity of Jesus, it does not show equality, since Jesus made it clear that the Father is greater than him, so therefore Jesus is not equal with the Father.


Lily

Bristol, UK

#674 Apr 18, 2013
Eric wrote:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM... what would you call this?
In Bible it said sometimes that Father is greater than he and sometimes that he and the father are one, people really need to decide and choose which statement will be the correct one.

Trinitarians do not believe Jesus is the Father. Are you quoting John 10:30 to try and show that Jesus is equal to the Father? Well that isn’t true, since the Gospel of John shows the opposite, in fact if we quote one verse back we read:

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

This is verse 29, it comes right before verse 30, and in verse 29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father. So therefore how to Christians try and assume that this verse shows equality between Jesus and the Father is beyond me, just a verse before it Jesus says the Father is greater than everyone!

In fact this is not the first time that Jesus says the Father is greater than him, he does it again later:

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28)

So here we once again have Jesus claiming the Father is greater than him, so how is Jesus equal to the Father when Jesus says the contrary? Now Christians have come up with a way of trying to explain this verse off, they say that Jesus was talking as a man here, that as a man the Father is greater than him, they try and say that the Father meant he is greater than Jesus in rank and authority and not in essence.

However so what did Jesus mean in John 10 when Jesus said the Father is greater than ALL? Jesus placed himself in the category of ALL people, so therefore the Christian response will not work for John 10:29. It must be said though that the Christian response does not work for John chapter 14:28 neither, because the Christian argues from silence and is arguing something they have yet to prove. Christians cannot prove that Jesus has 2 natures, they can never get a single quote from the lips of Jesus saying I am man and Divine, that I have 2 natures and I gave one up and took on the man nature, this is non-existent, so therefore the response is from silence provided with no proof or a solid basis.

1-The fact is the Bible shows that the Father is greater than Jesus in essence, the Father is all-knowing and Jesus is not.

2-The Father gives Jesus everything from miracle to doctrine.

3-Jesus begs the Father to save him, obviously showing that life and death is controlled by the Father and NOT Jesus.

For all these arguments the Christian will say as man Jesus is not all-knowing, as man Jesus receives things from the Father, however so I will kindly ask the Christian bring this proof from the words of Jesus, you shall never be able to do it, this doctrine is an invention and not something to be found from Jesus.

So therefore in conclusion, John 10:30 proves nothing in support of the divinity of Jesus, it does not show equality, since Jesus made it clear that the Father is greater than him, so therefore Jesus is not equal with the Father.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#675 Apr 18, 2013
Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
In Bible it said sometimes that Father is greater than he and sometimes that he and the father are one, people really need to decide and choose which statement will be the correct one.
Trinitarians do not believe Jesus is the Father. Are you quoting John 10:30 to try and show that Jesus is equal to the Father? Well that isn’t true, since the Gospel of John shows the opposite, in fact if we quote one verse back we read:
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
This is verse 29, it comes right before verse 30, and in verse 29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father. So therefore how to Christians try and assume that this verse shows equality between Jesus and the Father is beyond me, just a verse before it Jesus says the Father is greater than everyone!
In fact this is not the first time that Jesus says the Father is greater than him, he does it again later:
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28)
So here we once again have Jesus claiming the Father is greater than him, so how is Jesus equal to the Father when Jesus says the contrary? Now Christians have come up with a way of trying to explain this verse off, they say that Jesus was talking as a man here, that as a man the Father is greater than him, they try and say that the Father meant he is greater than Jesus in rank and authority and not in essence.
However so what did Jesus mean in John 10 when Jesus said the Father is greater than ALL? Jesus placed himself in the category of ALL people, so therefore the Christian response will not work for John 10:29. It must be said though that the Christian response does not work for John chapter 14:28 neither, because the Christian argues from silence and is arguing something they have yet to prove. Christians cannot prove that Jesus has 2 natures, they can never get a single quote from the lips of Jesus saying I am man and Divine, that I have 2 natures and I gave one up and took on the man nature, this is non-existent, so therefore the response is from silence provided with no proof or a solid basis.
1-The fact is the Bible shows that the Father is greater than Jesus in essence, the Father is all-knowing and Jesus is not.
2-The Father gives Jesus everything from miracle to doctrine.
3-Jesus begs the Father to save him, obviously showing that life and death is controlled by the Father and NOT Jesus.
For all these arguments the Christian will say as man Jesus is not all-knowing, as man Jesus receives things from the Father, however so I will kindly ask the Christian bring this proof from the words of Jesus, you shall never be able to do it, this doctrine is an invention and not something to be found from Jesus.
So therefore in conclusion, John 10:30 proves nothing in support of the divinity of Jesus, it does not show equality, since Jesus made it clear that the Father is greater than him, so therefore Jesus is not equal with the Father.
You are a dumb ass Muslim.
All you have left in your life is to do evil.
You are to brain dead to do anything else in life.
Lily

Bristol, UK

#676 Apr 18, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>You are a dumb ass Muslim.
All you have left in your life is to do evil.
You are to brain dead to do anything else in life.
Is it the evil thing to read the bible? I was quoting all the verses from your bible the one you read and believe it. I did not USE any abusive language because I am not allow to do it. I don't mind your rude comments. It was my duty to tell you the truth. In the end, I can say to my God that I did not hide the truth.
Eric

United States

#677 Apr 18, 2013
Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
In Bible it said sometimes that he is greater than the father and sometimes that he and the father are one, people really need to decide and choose which statement will be the correct one.
Trinitarians do not believe Jesus is the Father. Are you quoting John 10:30 to try and show that Jesus is equal to the Father? Well that isn’t true, since the Gospel of John shows the opposite, in fact if we quote one verse back we read:
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
This is verse 29, it comes right before verse 30, and in verse 29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father. So therefore how to Christians try and assume that this verse shows equality between Jesus and the Father is beyond me, just a verse before it Jesus says the Father is greater than everyone!
In fact this is not the first time that Jesus says the Father is greater than him, he does it again later:
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28)
So here we once again have Jesus claiming the Father is greater than him, so how is Jesus equal to the Father when Jesus says the contrary? Now Christians have come up with a way of trying to explain this verse off, they say that Jesus was talking as a man here, that as a man the Father is greater than him, they try and say that the Father meant he is greater than Jesus in rank and authority and not in essence.
However so what did Jesus mean in John 10 when Jesus said the Father is greater than ALL? Jesus placed himself in the category of ALL people, so therefore the Christian response will not work for John 10:29. It must be said though that the Christian response does not work for John chapter 14:28 neither, because the Christian argues from silence and is arguing something they have yet to prove. Christians cannot prove that Jesus has 2 natures, they can never get a single quote from the lips of Jesus saying I am man and Divine, that I have 2 natures and I gave one up and took on the man nature, this is non-existent, so therefore the response is from silence provided with no proof or a solid basis.
1-The fact is the Bible shows that the Father is greater than Jesus in essence, the Father is all-knowing and Jesus is not.
2-The Father gives Jesus everything from miracle to doctrine.
3-Jesus begs the Father to save him, obviously showing that life and death is controlled by the Father and NOT Jesus.
For all these arguments the Christian will say as man Jesus is not all-knowing, as man Jesus receives things from the Father, however so I will kindly ask the Christian bring this proof from the words of Jesus, you shall never be able to do it, this doctrine is an invention and not something to be found from Jesus.
So therefore in conclusion, John 10:30 proves nothing in support of the divinity of Jesus, it does not show equality, since Jesus made it clear that the Father is greater than him, so therefore Jesus is not equal with the Father.
Ok if it doesn't show equality why did the Jews take stones to stone him in the next verse John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? Peter even called him the Son of God Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Nandrelle

Saint Louis, MO

#678 Apr 19, 2013
abba wrote:
<quoted text>jesus was mesanger.thats all. stupad cross worsphers thay r
Before you start typing I suggest you start reading more!!

Did I say he was God????
Nandrelle

Saint Louis, MO

#679 Apr 19, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus is always God.
You are Just a dumb Muslim.
In order to know God you have to study the OT first and then the NT Gospels become understandable.
Lean about the priest hood in Leviticus.
The Book of Leviticus (from Greek &#923;&#949;&#965; &#953;&#964;&#953; &#954;&#972;&#962; , Leuitikos, meaning "relating to the Levites"; Hebrew: &#1493;&#1497;&#15 11;&#1512;&#1488;& #8206;, Vayikra, "And He called") is the third book of the Hebrew Bible, and the third of five books of the Torah (or Pentateuch). The English name is from the Latin Leviticus, taken in turn from Greek and a reference to the Levites, the tribe from whom the priests were drawn. In addition to instructions for those priests, it also addresses the role and duties of the laity.[1]
Leviticus rests in two crucial beliefs: the first, that the world was created "very good" and retains the capacity to achieve that state although it is vulnerable to sin and defilement; the second, that the faithful enactment of ritual makes God's presence available, while ignoring or breaching it compromises the harmony between God and the world.[2]
The traditional view is that Leviticus was compiled by Moses, or that the material in it goes back to his time, but internal clues suggest that it originated in post-exilic (i.e., after c.538 BC) Jewish worship centred on reading or preaching.[3][4] Scholars are practically unanimous that the book had a long period of growth, that it includes some material of considerable antiquity, and that it reached its present form in the Persian period (538–332 BC).[5]
You are Just a dumb Muslim.

Who said I was a muslim??? Use your head idiot!

Jesus is always God

If jesus was God as you say how come he died..Isnt God supposed to be immortal or the all powerful one....Jesus was a MESSENGER of God NOT God himself! You are preaching religion to me but you cant see past it!

What kind of God would come to Earth kill himself and then return to Heaven!! Unless he thought humanity is that stupid to think that....You stupid idiot use your head!!
POLO

Dartford, UK

#680 Apr 19, 2013
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolute rubbish.
1. Please try 1.8 billion and increasing.
2. Jesus does NOT make any exclusive "heir" claim to G-d/Yhwh or any deity. He is clear about Jews being children of god.
There is NOT a single DIRECT quote from Jesus about his divinity...such as i am yhwh, i am THE begotten son of Yhwh, i have come in human form to die for gentiles on a cross, through me you will have eteranl life as long as you you believe that i died for your sins....etc.
QURAN DOES NOT SAY GOD MADE MARY PREGNANT BY "overpowering" her in th emiddle of the night as "holy ghost" while her elderly fiance was fast asleep!!!!! YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS.
I was a Christian Priest.
3. Please show the mistaken "facts"...and try not to quote from nutcase sites...if you can actually read and understand the Quran in arabic you will not say such things.
4. The ONLY made up religion is "christianity" by an interloper called paul who NEVER met Jesus! Jesus knows nothing about "christians" ...he never promoted such an abomination.
Jesus worshipped God and the poor confused folks worship him...
Well done May Allah Bless You
POLO

Dartford, UK

#681 Apr 19, 2013
jesus is wrote:
When Jesus said: "I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE" Immediately the Jews wanted to stone him. He asked them which of his good works caused them to want to kill him. They replied, "We are not stoning you for any of these but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, "CLAIM TO BE GOD."
{10:34} Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?{10:35} If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

The expression "I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE," was very innocent, meaning nothing more than a common purpose with God.
"THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE AS THOU. FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US..."

"I IN THEM, AND THOU IN ME, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE..."(JOHN 17:20-22)

John A-V {17:21} Jesus said: That they all may be one; as you, Father,[art] in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you has sent me.{17:22} And the glory which you gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:{17:23} I in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one.

God almighty Jesus and the 12 disciples all are one, so if the meaning of the word (one) is to be taken literally then the Christian need to believe in 14 Gods but naturally they are one in teaching and knowledge providing to the people.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#682 Apr 19, 2013
Nandrelle wrote:
<quoted text>
You are Just a dumb Muslim.
Who said I was a muslim??? Use your head idiot!
Jesus is always God
If jesus was God as you say how come he died..Isnt God supposed to be immortal or the all powerful one....Jesus was a MESSENGER of God NOT God himself! You are preaching religion to me but you cant see past it!
What kind of God would come to Earth kill himself and then return to Heaven!! Unless he thought humanity is that stupid to think that....You stupid idiot use your head!!
If you are so smart dumb ass why do you have to ask such a stupid question?
http://carm.org/can-god-die

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