WHO IS ISHMAIL, SON OF HAGAR? let's see

WHO IS ISHMAIL, SON OF HAGAR? let's see

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“Follow Me Follow Christ”

Since: Jun 07

Earth

#2 Aug 3, 2007
Yahaim wrote:
Hagar was the servant of Sarah, wife of Abraham. When Sarah couldn't conceive a son she gave Hagar the egyptian to Abraham and Hagar conceived and had a son: Ishmail.
Ishmail and Hagar were thrown out of the Hebrew camp because Ishmail was brutal and sexual on his plays and Sarah, the mother of Issac didn't want that bad influence in the camp. So she told Abraham to expell the 2 vermin and they were.
Ishmail is the father of the Arabs and now Muslums.
The Quran erroneosly says God made a covenant with Ishmail. There is no Biblical evidence of this.
The Divine covenant was made with Abraham, Isaac and Yacob. It says so in the Toran and Christian Bible.
It was NOt done in error on accident, done on purpose to make arabs seem like the chosen ones. By doing som it also taking authority away from Jesus' line.
Proud American

Pennsburg, PA

#4 Aug 4, 2007
Yahaim wrote:
Hagar was the servant of Sarah, wife of Abraham. When Sarah couldn't conceive a son she gave Hagar the egyptian to Abraham and Hagar conceived and had a son: Ishmail.
Ishmail and Hagar were thrown out of the Hebrew camp because Ishmail was brutal and sexual on his plays and Sarah, the mother of Issac didn't want that bad influence in the camp. So she told Abraham to expell the 2 vermin and they were.
Ishmail is the father of the Arabs and now Muslums.
The Quran erroneosly says God made a covenant with Ishmail. There is no Biblical evidence of this.
The Divine covenant was made with Abraham, Isaac and Yacob. It says so in the Toran and Christian Bible.
so what you're saying is muslims are descendants of a bastard child?

“yummy!!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#5 Aug 4, 2007
Proud American wrote:
<quoted text>
so what you're saying is muslims are descendants of a bastard child?
The descendants of the servant woman.
Mansoor

Pakistan

#6 Aug 6, 2007
Response to Yahim

Yahim said:

Ishmail and Hagar were thrown out of the Hebrew camp because Ishmail was brutal and sexual on his plays and Sarah, the mother of Issac didn't want that bad influence in the camp.

My Response:

Where is Reference?can you quote biblical verses in ur support?

Yahim said:

The Quran erroneosly says God made a covenant with Ishmail. There is no Biblical evidence of this.

My Response:

"And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.(Genesis 17:20)"

"What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?(Deuteronomy 4:7-8)"

In the above verses, we first see a clear promise from GOD Almighty that He will make a "great nation" from Ishmael's descendents.

We then see the definition of "great nation" as being a nation that directly receives a Law from GOD Almighty.


“yummy!!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#7 Aug 6, 2007
Mansoor wrote:
Yahim said:
The Quran erroneosly says God made a covenant with Ishmail. There is no Biblical evidence of this.
My Response:
"And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.(Genesis 17:20)"
You should have carried on into verse 21.
"BUT My covenant I will establish with Issac whom Sarah shall bear to you....
Proud American

Pennsburg, PA

#8 Aug 6, 2007
annab3lla wrote:
<quoted text>You should have carried on into verse 21.
"BUT My covenant I will establish with Issac whom Sarah shall bear to you....
well now they can't do that. God forbid they show the truth.
Mansoor

Pakistan

#9 Aug 6, 2007
"And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.(Genesis 17:20)"

Read also

"What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?(Deuteronomy 4:7-8)"

No knowledgeable Muslim would deny Judaism. Judaism was the "light" of the Jews according to the Noble Quran 5:44.

The verses of Deuteronomy 4:7-8, while they are talking about the Jews, clearly say that if the people have the "law of the LORD", then they are a "great nation".

Since GOD Almighty promised that He was going to make the Arabs a "great nation", since they are from Ishmael, then this means that the Noble Quran is indeed GOD Almighty's Law to the Arabs, and to ALL Muslims as well that embraced Islam.

Therefore, since "great nation" proves that the people have the Law of GOD Almighty, and since the Arabs were promised to become a "great nation" in the Old Testament, then this clearly and irrefutably makes the Noble Quran as the Law of the LORD in the Old Testament since it came from the Arabs, the "great nation".

“yummy!!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#10 Aug 6, 2007
I think you must have forgotten the prophecy about Ishmael in Genesis 16.12.
He shall be a wild man
His hand shall be against every man
And every mans hand against him
And he shall dwell in the presence of his bretheren.
Mansoor

Pakistan

#11 Aug 6, 2007
Response to annab3lla

Ishmael was a wild man, and a "blessed" one by GOD Almighty (Gen. 17:19-21).

He fought the pagan Arabs who practiced brutal slavery and degradation of women.

It was part of the pagan Arabs' custom to bury daughters alive at the age of 4, because a birth of a female brought shame to the family. Many pagan Arabs used to practice it.

WARRIOR OF GOD

“WIELDLING THE SWORD OF GOD”

Since: Dec 06

THAT OTHERS MAY LIVE

#12 Aug 6, 2007
Mansoor wrote:
"And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.(Genesis 17:20)"
Read also
"What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?(Deuteronomy 4:7-8)"
No knowledgeable Muslim would deny Judaism. Judaism was the "light" of the Jews according to the Noble Quran 5:44.
The verses of Deuteronomy 4:7-8, while they are talking about the Jews, clearly say that if the people have the "law of the LORD", then they are a "great nation".
Since GOD Almighty promised that He was going to make the Arabs a "great nation", since they are from Ishmael, then this means that the Noble Quran is indeed GOD Almighty's Law to the Arabs, and to ALL Muslims as well that embraced Islam.
Therefore, since "great nation" proves that the people have the Law of GOD Almighty, and since the Arabs were promised to become a "great nation" in the Old Testament, then this clearly and irrefutably makes the Noble Quran as the Law of the LORD in the Old Testament since it came from the Arabs, the "great nation".
Your all wrong Mansoor.

Sorry to have to tell you this. Throw the Quran away.
Omar

Houston, TX

#13 Aug 6, 2007
annab3lla wrote:
I think you must have forgotten the prophecy about Ishmael in Genesis 16.12.
He shall be a wild man
His hand shall be against every man
And every mans hand against him
And he shall dwell in the presence of his bretheren.
that's really interesting, I haven't heard that before. It certainly sounds like the arab people.

yaheim: where does the Quran say the covenant was with Ishmael? The Quran talks a lot about the covenant with the children of israel, the descendents of Isaac, and how they abandoned it.

“yummy!!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#14 Aug 6, 2007
Mansoor wrote:
Response to annab3lla
Ishmael was a wild man, and a "blessed" one by GOD Almighty (Gen. 17:19-21).
He fought the pagan Arabs who practiced brutal slavery and degradation of women.
It was part of the pagan Arabs' custom to bury daughters alive at the age of 4, because a birth of a female brought shame to the family. Many pagan Arabs used to practice it.
Its a shame his desendants don't do the same today then isn't it?

“yummy!!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#15 Aug 6, 2007
Interesting reference in Galations 4.22.-31

For it is written Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondswoman and the other by a free woman.
But he who was born of the bondswoman was born according to the flesh,and he of the freewoman through promise.
Which things are symbolic.For these are the two covenants, the one from Monut Sinaiwhich gives birth to bandage, which is Hagar.
For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children.
But the Jerusalem above is free which is the mother of us all........
v.28.
Now we bretheren as Issac was are children of promise.
But as he who was born according to the flesh (Ishmael)then persecuted him who was born of the spirit (Issac) even so it is now.
Nevertheless what does the scripture say?
Cast out the bondswoman and her son for the son of the bondswoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman......

Cross reference Genesis 21.10

“yummy!!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#16 Aug 6, 2007
Omar wrote:
<quoted text>
that's really interesting, I haven't heard that before. It certainly sounds like the arab people.
yaheim: where does the Quran say the covenant was with Ishmael? The Quran talks a lot about the covenant with the children of israel, the descendents of Isaac, and how they abandoned it.
Yes it does seem to fit the bill doesn't it?
Omar

Houston, TX

#17 Aug 6, 2007
annab3lla wrote:
<quoted text>Its a shame his desendants don't do the same today then isn't it?
what? are you serious? You think it's a shame that arabs don't bury their daughters alive today? and you're christian right?
Omar

Houston, TX

#18 Aug 6, 2007
WARRIOR OF GOD wrote:
<quoted text>
Your all wrong Mansoor.
Sorry to have to tell you this. Throw the Quran away.
lack of a good response it sounds like. The bible prophesized that a great nation would come from the line of Ishmael and it has it seems...

“yummy!!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#19 Aug 6, 2007
Omar wrote:
<quoted text>
what? are you serious? You think it's a shame that arabs don't bury their daughters alive today? and you're christian right?
No No of course not.You said he fought against the pagan practices such as this. Yes??

“yummy!!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#20 Aug 6, 2007
Omar wrote:
<quoted text>
what? are you serious? You think it's a shame that arabs don't bury their daughters alive today? and you're christian right?
I mean Mansoor said he fought against this.

WARRIOR OF GOD

“WIELDLING THE SWORD OF GOD”

Since: Dec 06

THAT OTHERS MAY LIVE

#21 Aug 6, 2007
Listen, I've been through all of this a million times on these post. Do a little research for yourself.

Listen to the poeple on this forum that have already responded.

Try to learn something and de-brainwash yourself.
passerby

San Francisco, CA

#22 Aug 6, 2007
annab3lla wrote:
Interesting reference in Galations 4.22.-31
For it is written Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondswoman and the other by a free woman.
But he who was born of the bondswoman was born according to the flesh,and he of the freewoman through promise.
Which things are symbolic.For these are the two covenants, the one from Monut Sinaiwhich gives birth to bandage, which is Hagar.
For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children.
But the Jerusalem above is free which is the mother of us all........
v.28.
Now we bretheren as Issac was are children of promise.
But as he who was born according to the flesh (Ishmael)then persecuted him who was born of the spirit (Issac) even so it is now.
Nevertheless what does the scripture say?
Cast out the bondswoman and her son for the son of the bondswoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman......
Cross reference Genesis 21.10
Interesting concept about the one being of the spirit and the other being of the flesh.

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