Original QURAN was BURNT by UTHMAN, ...

Original QURAN was BURNT by UTHMAN, WHY?

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whatever

Knutsford, UK

#1 Feb 20, 2008
Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman.'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit,'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies.'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies,'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa.'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari.(That Verse was):'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.'(33.23)

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadi...

In this verse, there are two sentence why I have question to muslims in this forum -

Question #1.

The above Hadith says :
"Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt"

Why did Caliph Uthamn BURNT all the original copies and fragments of ORIGINAL QURAN?

Question #2:

The Hadith Also says, Quran was revealed in "dialect of Quraish"? Yet why NON-Quraishis WROTE the Quran instead of Quraishis?
tolivr

United States

#2 Feb 20, 2008
Do not expect any good answers for this question. Muslims cannot bear to admit there were once many differing copies and versions of the Koran.

That's what they want to believe about the Bible, so they can never admit this was the case with the Koran.
ANTI SATAN

Cape Town, South Africa

#3 Feb 20, 2008
tolivr wrote:
Do not expect any good answers for this question. Muslims cannot bear to admit there were once many differing copies and versions of the Koran.
That's what they want to believe about the Bible, so they can never admit this was the case with the Koran.
Read up on Islamic history written by Muslims and not by orientalist.
Eris

Sudbury, UK

#4 Feb 20, 2008
Not only that but a copy of the Koran survived the Uthman inferno and was found in the Sanaa mosque in Yemen. Once muslims discovered that there are two copies of the Koran and that they are different they had to cover it up and pretend it did not exist. So now all muslims are living in cloud cuckoo land. Cuckoo. Cuckoo.
islam the religion for cuckoos.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199901/koran
tweedybird

Albuquerque, NM

#5 Feb 20, 2008
Eris wrote:
Not only that but a copy of the Koran survived the Uthman inferno and was found in the Sanaa mosque in Yemen. Once muslims discovered that there are two copies of the Koran and that they are different they had to cover it up and pretend it did not exist. So now all muslims are living in cloud cuckoo land. Cuckoo. Cuckoo.
islam the religion for cuckoos.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199901/koran
Actually what was found in Yemen is not just one other Qur’an but many other versions of the Qur’an. It was what is called a paper grave. Old versions of the Qur’an were apparently stashed in the rafters of the mosque centuries ago and forgotten about. They show many differing versions, with rewrites, cross outs, etc. Researchers are saying that it shows an evolving Qur’an not one that was written at one time. They date to the first two centuries after the death of Muhammad.
tweedybird

Albuquerque, NM

#6 Feb 20, 2008
ANTI SATAN wrote:
<quoted text>
Read up on Islamic history written by Muslims and not by orientalist.
The orginal post on this thread is a hadith... hence a quote from an ancient islmic source.

Plus there are the many different versions of Qur’ans found in Yemen.. held in a Yemen museum...
Scooter-girl

Portland, OR

#7 Feb 20, 2008
Eris wrote:
Not only that but a copy of the Koran survived the Uthman inferno and was found in the Sanaa mosque in Yemen. Once muslims discovered that there are two copies of the Koran and that they are different they had to cover it up and pretend it did not exist. So now all muslims are living in cloud cuckoo land. Cuckoo. Cuckoo.
islam the religion for cuckoos.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199901/koran
Hey Eris,

Since you were interested in finding out what you could about the Sanaa manuscripts, here's another interesting tidbit about another, hitherto unknown variant copy of the Quran (the article is a long one but I'd recommend reading the whole thing):

January 12, 2008

On the night of April 24, 1944, British air force bombers hammered a former Jesuit college here housing the Bavarian Academy of Science. The 16th-century building crumpled in the inferno. Among the treasures lost, later lamented Anton Spitaler, an Arabic scholar at the academy, was a unique photo archive of ancient manuscripts of the Quran.

The 450 rolls of film had been assembled before the war for a bold venture: a study of the evolution of the Quran, the text Muslims view as the verbatim transcript of God's word. The wartime destruction made the project "outright impossible," Mr. Spitaler wrote in the 1970s.

Mr. Spitaler was lying. The cache of photos survived, and he was sitting on it all along. The truth is only now dribbling out to scholars -- and a Quran research project buried for more than 60 years has risen from the grave.

The rolls of film, kept in cigar boxes, plastic trays and an old cookie tin, are now in a safe in Berlin. The photos of the old manuscripts will form the foundation of a computer data base that Ms. Neuwirth's team believes will help tease out the history of Islam's founding text. The result, says Michael Marx, the project's research director, could be the first "critical edition" of the Quran -- an attempt to divine what the original text looked like and to explore overlaps with the Bible and other Christian and Jewish literature.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/article_p...
tolivr

Banks, AL

#9 Feb 20, 2008
ANTI SATAN wrote:
<quoted text>
Read up on Islamic history written by Muslims and not by orientalist.
A perfect example of exactly what I predicted. This response, by a Muslim in S. Africa, purposefully avoids the topic of the authenticity of the Koran.

As I said, Muslims will avoid this question.
Moses-Jesus-Muha mmad

Gaborone, Botswana

#10 Feb 21, 2008
whatever wrote:
In this verse, there are two sentence why I have question to muslims in this forum -.....
Before discussing the core issue, I like to mention two things :

01- The title of the topic viz.‘Original QURAN was BURNT by UTHMAN, WHY?’ is quite untrue. The proof submitted by you, itsellf uphold your title to be vague and dishonest . Read the following bold line from your first post :

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

………. So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "SEND US THE MANUSCRIPTS OF THE QUR'AN SO THAT WE MAY COMPILE THE QUR'ANIC MATERIALS IN PERFECT COPIES and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman……..'UTHMAN RETURNED THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS TO HAFSA.'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the OTHER QUR'ANIC MATERIALS, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.…….

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadi ...

What we observe here that :

(a) UTHMAN (ra) COPIED THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT OF QUR’AN AND DISTRIBUTED IT ALL OVER THE WORLD

(b) UTHMAN BURNT ALL THE DISCRETE COPIES OF QUR’AN .

Hence your own proof went against your own verdict .

02- This incident in Bukhari recorded about 200 years after the real event took place . Not Bukhari nor any of the narrators from whom he listened the incident were present by the time of the discussed incident . Hence logically it will be really difficult to believe that whatever recorded here is 100 % true . But I wonder that the enemies of Islam always chose to quote Hadiths to falsify Islam which really staunch my faith Hadiths were written by the enemies of Islam.

Well, keeping logic , reason and rationality in front , I will try to clarify your questions , InshALLAH .
Moses-Jesus-Muha mmad

Gaborone, Botswana

#11 Feb 21, 2008
## ANSWER TO QUESTION 01 ##

As I told you before that Uthman (ra) didn’t burn the original copy , rather he burnt those copies which people from different regions with different Arabic dialect wrote according to their own dialect . Observe the objection of Hudaifa (ra):

“Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) DIFFERENCES IN THE RECITATION OF THE QUR'AN,…”

You can see that the differences were in recitation, not in text . No chapter was more or less , nor even a single word . At that time there were 07 different Arabic dialects existed in Jaziratul Arab . Quraish was the dialect of Qur’an and in that dialect the original Qur’an was written . Hence people from different dialects wrote their own Qur’an in their own dialect . This must differ from the original Qurasih Qur’an . For example, i the word ‘COLOR’ is USA English Dioalect can be recited ‘COLOUR’ in Britsh English dialect . Hence there would be a different in the recitation of COLOR or COLOUR though they are same word with same meaning .

Moreover hundreds of prophet’s close companions were alive at that time . What was their reaction after the official copy prepared by Uthman ? Check the following records :

Zaid ibn Thabit is reported to have said:
"I saw the Companions of Muhammad (going about) saying,'By God, Uthman has done well! By God, Uthman has done well!" (Naysaburi, al-,Nizam al-Din al-Hasan ibn Muhammad, Ghara'ib al-Quran wa-ragha'ib al-furqan. 4 vols. To date. Cairo, 1962).

Ibn Abi Dawud records Musab ibn Sad ibn Abi Waqqas to have testified:

"I saw the people assemble in large number at Uthman's burning of the proscribed copies; not a one spoke out against him." ((Ibn Abi Dawud, p.12)

Ali ibn Abu Talib, the cousin of the Prophet and the fourth successor to the Prophet commented: "If I were in command in place of Uthman, I would have done the same".
( Zarkashi, al-, Badr al-Din, Al-Burhan fi-ulum al-Quran, Cairo, 1957, Vol. I, p. 240.)

## ANSWER TO QUESTION 02 ##

With the expansion of Islamic lands, different Arab tribes came into being Islamic nation . They had different Arabic dialects . Hence they wrote the Qur’an in their own dialect which differ from the original dialect of Qur’an , i.e., Quraish . Qura’n was written by the time Prophet (p) in Quraish dialect and it was compiled in Qursiah dialect in one square book which was kept by Hafsa (ra) the wife of the prophet (p). Uthman simply took that Qur’an from Hafsa and copied it in thousands and distribute it so that there remained only the original copy of Qur’an and he burnt the others . Thats all .


Thanks.
Eris

Ayr, UK

#12 Feb 21, 2008
Scooter-girl wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Eris,
Since you were interested in finding out what you could about the Sanaa manuscripts, here's another interesting tidbit about another, hitherto unknown variant copy of the Quran (the article is a long one but I'd recommend reading the whole thing):
January 12, 2008
On the night of April 24, 1944, British air force bombers hammered a former Jesuit college here housing the Bavarian Academy of Science. The 16th-century building crumpled in the inferno. Among the treasures lost, later lamented Anton Spitaler, an Arabic scholar at the academy, was a unique photo archive of ancient manuscripts of the Quran.
The 450 rolls of film had been assembled before the war for a bold venture: a study of the evolution of the Quran, the text Muslims view as the verbatim transcript of God's word. The wartime destruction made the project "outright impossible," Mr. Spitaler wrote in the 1970s.
Mr. Spitaler was lying. The cache of photos survived, and he was sitting on it all along. The truth is only now dribbling out to scholars -- and a Quran research project buried for more than 60 years has risen from the grave.
The rolls of film, kept in cigar boxes, plastic trays and an old cookie tin, are now in a safe in Berlin. The photos of the old manuscripts will form the foundation of a computer data base that Ms. Neuwirth's team believes will help tease out the history of Islam's founding text. The result, says Michael Marx, the project's research director, could be the first "critical edition" of the Quran -- an attempt to divine what the original text looked like and to explore overlaps with the Bible and other Christian and Jewish literature.
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/article_p...
Thank you for that scooter girl. It looks like the Islamic attempt to disguise the many Korans is falling apart at the seams.
Khader

Gainesville, FL

#13 Mar 20, 2008
At the time of Caliph Abu Bakr, the Quran was compiled in a hard copy by Zaid Ibn Thabit. The copy was with Abu Bakr, then passed to Caliph Omar, then to Omar's daughter: Hafsa.
Caliph Uthman assigned the SAME PERSON: Zaid Ibn Thabit on a committee to double check the Quran again, and make copies, and to use Hafsa's one as one of the references to make sure. Well, if the same person compile both texts, then no bad intentions by Uthman. He burnt it so no references will be made formally but to the ones copied again under a committee to make sure its correct.
Hope this helps.
anti satan

Surbiton, UK

#14 Mar 20, 2008
He burnt them so that muslims could say there is only one copy of the Koran. How difficult is it to copy a book and then burn any evidence of other copies. Not very difficult. But Uthman failed to do that. There are different copies of the Koran. Some at the Sanaa mosque in Yemen. Yet another example of how satan can not hide the truth.
Kam

Southampton, UK

#17 Jun 3, 2008
Hello Every one:-
I think its not right to pass your comments unless you have read the text and background yourself from an athentic source. i will give you the answer of that question you have asked about the originality of quran.Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur’an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes. All the verses revealed to the Prophet may not have been heard personally by all the Companions. There were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur’an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur’an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.).
Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims.
There were other personal collections of the portions of the Qur’an that people had with them. These might have been incomplete and with mistakes. Usman (r.a.) only appealed to the people to destroy all these copies which did not match the original manuscript of the Qur’an in order to preserve the original text of the Qur’an. Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.
so it the burn copies were not the original one those were the versions which were not verified by Prophet Muhammad pece be upon him. and i will stress the point again that please do not pass comments untill you have read about it from an authentic source. and the beauty of Quran is that from that time till now there is no single contradiction found it quran and it has passed all the tests of modern science. if zou dont believe it read it yourself.
Kenny

Liverpool, UK

#18 Jun 3, 2008
Kam wrote:
....and the beauty of Quran is that from that time till now there is no single contradiction found it quran and it has passed all the tests of modern science. if zou dont believe it read it yourself.
LOL
No more Mirena for me

Portland, OR

#19 Jun 3, 2008
Kam wrote:
Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.
Two ancient copies of Koran that are in existence are the Samarqand MSS is in Tashkent, and the MSS housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul. What many Muslim's do not know, is that because these two manuscripts were written in a script style called "Kufic", practicing Muslim scholars generally date these manuscripts no earlier than 200 years after Muhammad died. Had these two manuscripts been compiled any earlier, they would have been written in either the Ma'il or Mashq script style. John Gilchrist, in his book, "Jam' Al-Qur'an" came to this same conclusion.(John Gilchrist, Jam' Al-Qur'an, Jesus to the Muslims, 1989)

It is unknown, even by Muslims that authorities will not release photographs of the ancient Topkapi manuscript in Istanbul and so there are no known studies on it. This is why the Muslim apologist, M. Saifullah had to state "Concerning the Topkapi manuscript we are not aware of studies done it." (Who's Afraid Of Textual Criticism?, M. S. M. Saifullah,'Abd ar-Rahman Squires & Muhammad Ghoniem)

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TIV...

The text of the Koran in 37:103 reads "they had both submitted their wills (became Muslims)" while the Arabic text of the Tashkent MSS gives the exact opposite meaning, "they did not submitted their wills" (they did NOT become Muslims.)

How can Muslims claim there are no textual variations in the Koran, when the Tashkent MSS differs from the modern Egyptian Qur’an in 5 passages: 2:284, 2:283, 3:37, 3:109 and 5:119. The Tashkent MSS uses the word 'Allah' while the modern Egyptian Qur'an, uses the word 'huwa'(the pronoun 'he').

Don't you wonder why Muslim authorities refuse to release photographs of the ancient Topkapi manuscript in Istanbul, one of the three oldest Korans in existence?

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-questions.htm
Proud American

Pennsburg, PA

#21 Jun 4, 2008
Kam wrote:
Hello Every one:-
I think its not right to pass your comments unless you have read the text and background yourself from an athentic source. i will give you the answer of that question you have asked about the originality of quran.Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur’an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes. All the verses revealed to the Prophet may not have been heard personally by all the Companions. There were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur’an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur’an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.).
Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims.
There were other personal collections of the portions of the Qur’an that people had with them. These might have been incomplete and with mistakes. Usman (r.a.) only appealed to the people to destroy all these copies which did not match the original manuscript of the Qur’an in order to preserve the original text of the Qur’an. Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.
so it the burn copies were not the original one those were the versions which were not verified by Prophet Muhammad pece be upon him. and i will stress the point again that please do not pass comments untill you have read about it from an authentic source. and the beauty of Quran is that from that time till now there is no single contradiction found it quran and it has passed all the tests of modern science. if zou dont believe it read it yourself.
how could the prophet have authorized any version of the koran since it was not compiled until 200 years after his death? talk about fuzzy logic.
AMERICAN MUSLIM

Santa Cruz, CA

#24 Jan 9, 2009
This is just sad. I've come across this site perchance so I may gain some knowledge into the insight of Islamophobic Christians, but all I've gathered from all of your posts is the ridiculous nature of your arguments.
Even if you're too lazy to actually go to a library and find scholarly texts on the study of the development and origins of the Qur'an, the least you could do is search on Wikipedia! Yet you pride yourselves on knowledge gained from bible.ca, the Wall Street Journal (the Christian conservative origins of which you should all check out), and answering-islam.com . Yet EVERY source that you all have sited are sources biased against Islam with a pro-Christian agenda. Even if I was a non-God-fearing atheist, I would be able to discern the propaganda being spread across the internet.
You revel in your ignorance and proudly exclaim that Muslims are being brainwashed, yet look at yourselves! Half of you are probably still in High School or are so strongly associated to your Churches that you've failed to hold an objective view of the Qur'an and Islam. Why is it that Muslim Americans in this country (those who are not Immigrants), take the time to read the Bible and are capable of criticizing it, while Christian Americans have never opened the Qur'an and rely on third-party sources. I can't wait to see your faces on the Day of Judgment when God looks unfavorably upon you for spreading lies and deceit, conspiring of that which you know not, and feigning insight into subject matter best left for those who understand religions.
As one who is capable of reading Arabic texts, I must point out to you that the Kufic script is simply that! A Script! The difference between the Kufic script and the modern Arabic script today is the same as that of Times New Roman and Arial. Those who come from Arabic-speaking countries are able to discern words without the accent-marks, whereas those who come from non-Arabic speaking societies, need the diacritics and accent-marks in order to read properly. I, myself, am fully capable of reading the Kufic script, and find it as easy as reading the script of the written Qur'an today.
Furthermore, "Al-Quran" means "The Recitation". There exist in the world over 10 million muslims who have the entire Qur'an memorized. As one who has memorized a significant portion of the Qur'an, I can easily declare to you the simplicity in which I can recall any verse from any chapter I have memorized. One of the true gifts and miracles of the Qur'an is the ability to memorize the beautiful verses, understand the meaning, and the difficulty that exists in forgetting any portion of it. I suggest you all open it up for yourselves one day and actually read it, as I have been doing with the Holy Bible.
In conclusion, I must say that I'm sick of the Islamophobia that has gripped this beautiful nation of ours. I will strive in the way of God to keep monitoring the activity on this site (with as much time as I can spare), so that a Muslim voice is always present.
I urge you all to learn more about the Holy Bible and the reasons why you believe in it, before you make the decision to criticize the Qur'an. Furthermore, criticism without scholarly inquiry is empty and riddled with the lies of the ignorant, therefore, READ the Qur'an and THEN ask questions.

“The evidence is everywhere.”

Since: Nov 08

Toronto

#25 Jan 9, 2009
For those who truly want to know why they were burned, you can find out here.

http://proofofgod.googlepages.com/appendix24p...

“The evidence is everywhere.”

Since: Nov 08

Toronto

#26 Jan 9, 2009
They burned it because Uthman had his scribes add two blasphemous verses to the Quran to glorify their idol. Prophet Muhummad. These false verses gave Muhummad attributes of GOD. The false verses are 9:128-129. Although, the vast majority of muslims reject this because it glorifies their idol. This why there was a 50-year war after the death of Muhummad. Those fighting for GOD, and those fighting against GOD (Uthman). Obviously, Uthman won the war (as per GOD's design) and had the original Quran burnt to prevent any future uprisings.

Don't you find it interesting that Sura 9 is the only Sura in the entire QUran that does not contain the Basmallah, "In the Name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful" at the beginning of the Sura. GOD knew they were going to add 2 false verses there as GOD is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent.

See the endless proof these verses are fabrications.
http://proofofgod.googlepages.com/submissiont...

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