Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Times.
“FREEDOM OF MIND & SOUL-”
Since: Aug 08
#40737 Apr 12, 2013
Qura,....... Qura......QURA (Read in Arabic) our post and confirm !
#40738 Apr 12, 2013
Dear HK Saar,
As I told (and Mohammad did) mein bich bazar mein lund pakard kaar nach raha hoon. That is the second meaning of Qura .....
#40739 Apr 12, 2013
ye to sirf pak/arabia me hi possible h, india me to log lund ko ukhad k gand me daal dete h
Dammam, Saudi Arabia
#40741 Apr 12, 2013
You are right, prophet dictated the letter and his scribes wrote it down on scroll....and then prophet sealed the scroll with his ring and it was dispatched thru individual persons, one for each addressee.
Every letter reached to its destination, however one of its bearer was killed on the route and prophet avenged for his murder by sending a Muslim army to punish the criminal.
It was a momentous event in the history of world religion, a prophet of God inviting kings and rulers of all near by countries to "accept Islam and be safe".
And within 25 years of these letters being dispatched, each and every country was under the feet of Muslims!!
Only those who "accepted the message of peace, were able to save their power and kingdom"!!
This is world history, not a cooked up tale!!
They were given camels and provisions for the journey.
Jubail, Saudi Arabia
#40742 Apr 12, 2013
I would try to answer your one question Why in India only there are Hindu Muslim riots? Who is responsible for them and what is its cure? This would answer many of your doubts and other issues.
But I would like to be patient and listen to my arguments with patience and with open mind.
I would like to discuss some basic things about Islam and Muslims, which very few Non Muslims either know or realise or even try to comprehend when told.
A. Unique Rise of Islam in the history of mankind:
01. Islam has a unique history in warfare and religion, which no other religion can match or exceed.
02. There have been no dearth of Warriors and Fighters who conquered great victories in world and founded great kingdoms, Look at Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun, for example.
03. These Kings and warriors founded great kingdoms and wielded much power during their life time, but after their death, their kingdoms and their philosophies and their ideas were soon forgotten and people see their names only in History books.
04. The case of Islam is totally different, it also spread very rapidly due to results of wars and fights which initial Arab Muslims had with Persian and Byzantine Empires.
05. You could explain these amazing victories as to zeal and fanatism which Arabs had for their religion .the defeats of large armies has happened before and shall also happen in future also, but what happened after war, was that most people of conquered nations accepted Islam.
06. Opponents of Islam are unable to explain this strange phenomenon and say Muslims forced Islam at the point of sword and Put Economic Pressures in the Form of Jizya to force these people to Islam.
07. I want to ask, why only Muslims thought of these measures? Why no other religion and their followers thought about it?
08. In reality, every warrior race and every conquered religion tries these things, but it is in the nature of people that they would sacrifice and every thing and even their lives for their religion and would not give up their religion.
09. Jews in Europe suffered centuries of persecution at the hands of Christians and they had to pay religious tax much worse that Jizya, did they abandon their religion and became Christians?
10. And another strange thing which we found that very soon the Arabs, became in minority and were overwhelmed by Non Arabs. Why these Non Arabs who were forced into Islam by sword and Jizya, continued to follow Islam and gave their lives defending it?
11. So spread of Islam and its wide acceptance by conquered people was not due to either Islam at the point of sword or economic Pressure of Jizya.
These are dummy excuses told by Non Muslims (especially Christians), because they are unable to repeat it.
B. Real Reason of Islam and its wide acceptance:
12. The basic reason for Islams acceptance by Non Arabs has been its total lack of Racism and its justice between the people, irre4spective of their religion and nationality.
13. In Quran there is no racial bias, it never addresses Muslims as O Arabs it never praises Arabs over Non Arabs, that is why Non Arabs see no racial or national bias when they became Muslim.
Jubail, Saudi Arabia
#40743 Apr 12, 2013
14. They get the same rights and same duties as other Muslims. That is why Islam becomes their religion and they become faithful servants of Islam.
This is the true reason of Islams spread in world and its gaining converts from every race and every region.
15. Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, Berbers, Africans, Turks, Indians .they all became Muslims and served Islam and got themselves elevated by Islam and not because of their other identities.
This is a unique feature of Islam and no other religion of the world.
C. Muslims in India:
17. When Muslims came to India, in 95 H, it was according to the same pattern as we have seen for other regions of the world.
18. First Muslim state was established in Sindh and Punjab and continued to flourish for around 200 years.
19. Muslims followed the same principles in India and what they followed elsewhere and we saw the same results. Slowly and slowly the people of Sindh and Punjab started accepting Islam.
20. Not because of Sword or Jizya as enemies of Islam try to portray, but seeing the impartiality and justice of Muslims and Islamic teachings.
D. Spread of Muslim Rule in India:
21. After 200 years, Muslims from certain Afghan tribes, came to India and expanded Muslim rules over sizable part of India.
22. No doubt the initial act was to engage in act of wars, but these wars were between the two heavily armed armies.
23. You cannot call it atrocity when large number of heavily armed soldiers die in battle field, in equal or unequal fight.
24. Muslims in battle field and Muslims as rulers are tow totally different things. Islam is against killing of captured enemy, burning their villages and cities and causing general destruction and mayhem in the land.
Muslims followed these principles and the results were soon to arrive.
25. All the persecuted people, those who were oppressed by kings and earlier rulers started accepting Islam.
If Muslims had been following Islam as original Arabs did before them . India would have become a Majority Muslim country between them.
26. But since the quality of these Muslims was not as Original Arabs, the result was also the same. Majority of Indians decided not to accept Islam but live under its political dominance.
27. When the ruling dynasty of Indian Muslims became weak, some Fresh tribe would come from Afghan side and take their place, that is why we saw all those KILJIS, and TUGHLAQS, and SURIS etc.
28. The last tribe to come to India were Mughals in the shape of Babar. They came and established their rule in India which was the last my Muslims and continued for about 250 years.
E. Hindu Muslim enmity:
29. Please read any number of books written by Hindus and Muslims during this entire period.
You would not find Muslims criticizing Hinduism and its practices, neither you would find Hindus criticizing Islam and Muslims.
30. As Islam spread in India, so every city and village and every province had mixed population.
31. We do not hear of any riots between Hindus and Muslims, the fights between rulers would take place, but for common people, it was a political fight and not a religious fight.
F. Arrival of British and start of Hindu Muslim divide:
32. It was arrival of British and their slow stage by stage conquering of India, which sowed the seed of this Hindu Muslim divide and its penetration to common people.
Jubail, Saudi Arabia
#40744 Apr 12, 2013
When British arrived in India, Mughal Empire was in its declining phase and political fights to take its place was on.
33. As usual these fights were between rulers and armies and not between common people.
34. But British, in a miniscule minority, soon realized . who were their real enemies and what was the easiest way to win and rule over india.
35. The events of 1857 showed that if Hindus and Muslims unite and fight British as one people, it would not be possible for them to defend themselves.
36. That is why they decided to re-write History of India based on Political Dominance of Muslims and show Hindu majority as perpetual suffering majority at the hands of a Ruthless religious fanatic Muslim kings and Rulers.
37. It is in the psychology of humans to get more attracted to negative thoughts than positive thoughts, so many Hindus played in the hands of British and started believing in these stories and looking upon Muslims as their enemies.
38. The seed of Communism was sown by British and given security and nourished by these narrow minded Hindus.
F. Start of Arya Samaj:
39. Religious debates between Hindus and Muslim on public platform, were not seen in India during past 800 years of Muslim rule in India.
40. Read any number of religious treatise written by either Hindus or Muslims during that 800 year period, but you will not find Hindus or Muslims criticizing each other.
41. But under the patronage of British, this Arya Samaj movement was started, and it became common to see Hindus and Muslims debating about their religion from mikes and public platforms,
42. This spread hate and hatred between common Hindus and Muslim helped spread the disease of communalism to every city and every big town.
If you analyze, you will find, Hindus to share more blame than Muslims in these religious debates.
43. Read the last two chapters of SATYARTH PRAKASH writeen by Swami Dayananda Saraswati, the promoter of Araya Samaj and see the depth of his shallow knowledge about Islam and Quran.
But nevertheless, Arya Smaj, religious debates and spate of Anti Islamic books nurthured the tree of Communalism for which Hindus should take more blame than Muslims.
G. Start of Political struggle of Independence, Congress, Muslim League and Hindu MAHASABHA:
44. By the start of 20th century, it was becoming clear that sun of British Empire was to come under permanent eclipse and its place must be taken by Indian themselves.
45. It was not the question of If but when this would happen. WW_1 and WW-2 hastened When portion, but If was never in doubt.
The model of controlling such a large country from remote control was not tenable for a long time.
46. So Indians decided to form a Political party. It was Indian national Congress, which was started as a Secular party of all Indians .
But due to its loose charter, many Extremist Hindus became its member and it the shadow of Nationalism, started the idea of Hindu Dominance.
47. Muslim leaders who were new in this field, made a league of themselves, called Muslim league, which was originally part of Congress, but soon, mainly due to the Communal attitude of these Extremist Hindus in Secular Congress, separated politically from it.
48. Seperation of Muslim league from Congress was mainly due to Extremist Hindus and they should share more blame for it than Muslims.
And this caused partition of India, which from what I analyze, looked like a Trap to divide Muslim population of India, so they can get a free hand to rule major part of India.
Jubail, Saudi Arabia
#40745 Apr 12, 2013
H. Start of RSS:
49. It was during this type that Extremist Hindus, getting impressed by rise and victories of NAZI AND FASCHI party in Germany and Italy decide to Unite Hindus on the same format.
Uniting Majority population against a minority population has always caused trouble and tribulations in any country and every country. The example of Germany and Italy is in front of us.
50. But these Extremist Hindus continued with their effort and started giving their communal message to young Hindu boys and due to this communalism reached even to the remotest villages in India.
51. Communal riots, which were unknown to India during 800 years of Muslim rule and major part of British rule, became a common event in India.
And once these communal riots start, they sow the seed of hate and hatred at the ground level and unless strong measures are taken, it is difficult to control and remove them.
52. Congress as Ruling Party of India and because of their Self claimed Secular Image should have taken strong step to punish those responsible for these riots .
but as I said earlier Congress was never a Truly Secular party, they had extremist Hindus controlling it from the very beginning and even now the situation is same.
K. Hindus as a fractured society:
53. Of all the religions and societies in the world, Hindus are perhaps the only exception, where majority of its population are given least rights and maximum duties.
SC / ST and OBC consist of majority of Hindus in India and these people were always suppressed and given very little power of rights in Hinduism.
54. That is why Hindus always need an enemy real or imaginary to keep their structured society united.
And Muslims are the best Scapegoat to fill in the role. That is why our RSS and Its parivar members spend more than 25 hours each day to continue this Anti Muslim propaganda..
L. In No Muslim country, there are organizations like RSS whose Only Aim is to spread Anti Muslim bias in India
55. There are more than 50 Muslim countries in the world. Go any where and find if there is any RSS like Organization in any of these countries?
56. In No Muslim country, where Muslims are in majority or minority, there is never a society to criticise any other religion and spread hate against them.
57. Even In Pakistan and Bangladesh, there are no party or organization that spread hate against Hindus or any other religious minority.
58. In India we have many Muslim organizations like JAMAT ISLAM, TABLIGHI JAMAT and others, they all are working for educating and upliftment of Muslims. Criticising Hindus is not their agenda.
Jubail, Saudi Arabia
#40746 Apr 12, 2013
Same is the case with Big Muslim learning centers like DEOBAND, BARELIEY and elsewhere in India. They only teach Islam and its rules, they do not criticise Hindus.
59. Criticising Idol Worship, and worship of false gods is the specialty of Islam, but Muslims never target Hindu gods or religious personalities of Hinduism and Buddhism or Sikhism or Judaism or Christianity, this show big heartedness of Muslims, and it is not a new phenomenon.
60. But on the other hand, look at Hindus attacking Islam, from first to last , you find them speaking in foul language against our Prophet.
On these threads itself, you can see any number of Hindus, speaking and writing in Liquid Hindi, Punjabi or other language abusing, insulting and mimicking Muslims .they might think that as fun, but actually it speaks of their Inferiority Complex and nothing else.
M. What is the solution:
61. To every rational, national and peace loving Indian, these communal riots are a disgrace on the face of India.
62. Instead of feeling proud that we have taken revenge on Muslims for their past actions it indeed shows Hindus inferiority complex towards Muslims.
63. If Muslims did wrong in past, how repeating the same mistake, would be good for Hindus?
Since when an evil can cure another evil?
64. Just look back at the numbers of Muslims killed in India since independence? You can look them as Muslims killed, you can also look them as Indians killed?
The loss of Muslims lives and property is really the loss of India. How can India progress and prosper when 20 % of its population lives under this type of bias and negation?
65. The organizations like RSS, VHP, SHIV SENA, BAJRANGDAL and similar organizations who want to Unite Hindus against Muslims should be banned or their activities curbed, so they do not mislead people.
All Media people and reports causing these communal divide and encouraging it must be punished and asked to pay back for their actions.
66. During communal riots the administration must act as neutral and punish guilty, irrespective to which community they belong to.
In past we have seen, Govt. trying to shield the guilty and protect the criminals, this leads to more riots and more violence in future.
67. The medias role in establishing guilty party as SIMI or IM or ISI or Taliban within 10 or 15 minutes of any Bomb Blast or any terrorist attack should be asked into questions? These experts should be asked by courts, how they got this secret info?
This Mixing of Views with News is one of the major cause of spread of communalism in our country.
68. India is not what Hindus are what Muslims are and what Sikhs are and what Christians are, it is what Indians are, if we forget that, we will do damage to India and not to any religion.
I apologize for making such a long post. I decided to post it at once instead of doing it in parts, because the subject is big and all facts should be placed at one time.
Dammam, Saudi Arabia
#40749 Apr 12, 2013
I ask you the same question, are you a Hindu first or Indian first?
If you are given a choice between Hinduism and Indian what will you take?
This is a stupid question to ask in reality.
Instead of understanding my long post and the issues it contained, you made a one line summary asking if I am an Indian First or a Muslim first, as if these are contradictory terms.
#40751 Apr 12, 2013
typical muslim filth
answers a hard question with another question
brian dead muslim inbred pigs
“FREEDOM OF MIND & SOUL-”
Since: Aug 08
#40753 Apr 12, 2013
Your basic assumption only is wrong.
Tell us one religion which interacted with Muslims and didn't have riot, war or bloodshed with them ???? None , isn't it ?
Christians had riots with Muslims in for of Crusade ! It is still on....otherwise how you explain a jail in christian country full of Muslims (Guantanamo ?)
Jews ? Oooooops I need not say....you know it !
Zoroastrians ? They fled to India to escape from Muslim rioter !
And so ....on......
Right question would have been - Hindoos never had riot with any other religion on scale of Hindoo Muslim riots - if you know why - you have your answer !
BTW why you Prophet disobeyed God ?....Qura...remember? We are still waiting for your answer !
#40754 Apr 12, 2013
muslims CANT LIVE with non muslims all over the world.
In Israel its Muslims v/s Jews
In Europe Its Christians V/s muslims
In America Its Christians v/s muslims
In Burma Its Buddhists v/s Muslims
In India Its Hindus/ Sikhs/ Buddhists /Jains v/s muslims
Muslims are directly responsible for these fights, riots and the basic issue of islamic intolerance for other faiths is the core cause
because only in islam has looting , rape , mass murder, lying and deceit been institutionalized
“Free Speech in a Free World ”
Since: May 10
#40757 Apr 12, 2013
That reminds me of the George W Bush speech explaining that if other countries were not with them at war then they would be seen against them.
Look at all the countries that joined in for their own safety ?
Could these countries you speak of who haved joined Islam for mercantile gain seeing it offered them a new taxation system ?
When the messenger was killed,how was it possible to know who did it ?
“Free Speech in a Free World ”
Since: May 10
#40758 Apr 12, 2013
The British gave the Hindu their voice to speak their mind.
Prior, under Muslim rule as you say,what would have happened to anyone who did complain ?
#40759 Apr 12, 2013
Now as on date:
Muslim armies are being defeated soundly. In and Around Israel . Pakistan is repeatedly defeated by India. Chechnya muslims are militarily defeated by Russian Armed Forces.United States has flattened Iraq and Afghanistan
Therefore Islam has been checkmated militarily
Thats why whining muslims resort to terrorism and aim at soft non military targets. Like 9/11, London & Madrid Bombings , Mumbai 26/11
THIS is also in the process of being completely defeated. Muslims now try their level best to expand their populations in non muslim countries thru rampant inbreeding and by illegal immigration.
THIS is also in the process of being completely defeated
stone throwing muslim mobs in israel and kashmir have also been defeated.
#40760 Apr 12, 2013
that was my concern about superhuman's like you?? do'es it make ur eyes weeker??
#40761 Apr 12, 2013
MUQ, before I touch on your posts let me say that I like the seriousness, the passion and intensity with which you write here. You are not someone who believes in writing posts for frivolous time pass which is admirable.
But beyond that I find that we don't have much common ground to agree. Your treatment of the hindu muslim problem smacks of a combination of personal bias resulting in partial reading and distorted interpretation of historical facts, convenient omissions and commissions, plus a lack of willingness to squarely face upto the facts.
I will be posting a series of posts in reply to the various points that you have raised over the next couple of days. First let me touch on the historical aspects of hindu muslim communalism in India.
To say that there was no hindu muslim communal riots in the past 800 years would be wrong. The lack of reporting and maintaining records before the advent of modern media could be one reason. Another reason could be that hindus and muslims lived in their own separate spheres without much interaction. There is lot of fog and mist surrounding the hindu muslim interaction in the last 800 years before the modern era.
Let me touch on the events of the modern era which has a bearing on the hindu muslim equation. 1)If you remember correctly it was the Khilafat moment which communalized the situation in India in the last century. Gandhi in his naivety decided to support the khilafat moment which only entrenched muslim orthodoxy with unhealthy consequences like Mappila riots in kerala.
2)The muslim revivalism was further encouraged by people like poet iqbal who worried about islamic culture being submerged by hindu assertiveness.
3)If britishers were sowing the seeds of distrust, it found fertile ground in the muslim community who played into their hands. After the partition of bengal the britishers encouraged muslim separatism to undercut the national moment for independence. It was from thereon that the muslim league gained strength with the britishers acting working behind the scenes to support them.
I will continue with this later.
“FREEDOM OF MIND & SOUL-”
Since: Aug 08
#40762 Apr 12, 2013
All said and done.....MUQ should know that anything born must die ! Mongol died .....Huns died .......
Romans died ....Greeks died ....sooner or later Islam and Muslims will die..... Mohammad will die ...
All were born ...thus destined to die......
Hindooism ..??? Sanatan Dhram ?
eternal.....were never born(tell me if you can the date of birth)......and thus will never die !!!
#40763 Apr 12, 2013
MUQ your refusal to squarely face upto historical facts makes you sound sanctimonious and this can be extremely irritating. No wonder that sometimes you evoke extreme reactions from some hindu posters here.
Now I'm giving you historical accounts of muslim atrocities in India. These accounts are a mix of hagiographical, autobiographical accounts. Since these are chronicled by muslim chroniclers you cannot accuse them of bias by non muslim writers. So MUQ squarely face upto these chilling accounts of muslim atrocities in front of which the alleged atrocities of gujarat riots pale into insignificance. These atrocities are not your typical accounts of one king conquering another kingdom. These atrocities are barbaric even by the standards of those days and they leave you with no alibi or fig leaf to dignify them.
Atrocities of Mahmud Ghazni.
" According to Tarikh-i-Yamini of Utbi, Mahmud's secretary,
"The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously [at Thanesar] that the stream was discolored, notwithstanding its purity, and people were unable to drink it. The Sultan returned with plunder which is impossible to count. Praise he to Allah for the honor he bestows on Islam and Muslims.
Shrawa, the next important place to be invaded, met the same fate. Utbi concludes:
"The Muslims paid no regard to the booty till they had satiated themselves with the slaughter of the infidels and worshipers of sun and fire. The friends of Allah searched the bodies of the slain for three days in order to obtain booty...The booty amounted in gold and silver, rubies and pearls nearly to three hundred thousand dirhams, and the number of prisoners may be conceived from the fact that each was sold for two to ten dirhams. These were afterwards taken to Ghazni and merchants came from distant cities to purchase them, so that the countries of Mawaraun-Nahr, Iraq and Khurasan were filled with them, and the fair and the dark, the rich and the poor, were commingled in one common slavery."
Add your comments below
|Islam Will Conquer Italy and the Entire West (Sep '10)||1 min||DaniEl||454,161|
|false mecca history in quran||2 min||Mohammad naaz||30|
|The Biggest Lie: Holocaust.||9 min||Baron44||928|
|Muhammed was a brilliant man||16 min||Goddess Gaia||32|
|A challenge for muslims here||17 min||I left Islam||11|
|Bible corrupted - Goddess G is confused||31 min||No Muslims here||1|
|Why do muslims drink camel pee?||37 min||Truth is truth||41|
|Jesus Christ was a Palestinian Muslim.||1 hr||Shamma||656|
|Who Is Allah? (Aug '07)||2 hr||Frijoles||225,848|
Find what you want!
Search Islam Forum Now
Copyright © 2015 Topix LLC