Atheism and cowardice

Nov 18, 2011 Full story: Conservapedia 12,667

Have any of the New Atheists toured [[Islam]]ic countries giving lectures in which they condemn [[Allah]], [[Muhammad]], Islam, or Muslims? Have any of them debated Muslims in Islamic countries? Have any of them been interviewed on Al Jazeera? Have any of them written entire books in which they condemn Allah, Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims? Have they ... (more)

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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7977 Apr 11, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>If that's how you truly feel ,..then, maybe "you" should get on his good side ..eh..?
Threatening an atheist with "god's punishment" is >>exactly<< like threatening an adult with "Santa won't bring you presents".

Exactly the same.

LMAO!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7978 Apr 11, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..Spirits..exist in the supernatural ..Are, you insinuating that an atheist culture can "accept" spirits ..???
Some do.

The only requirement to be an atheist, is to not believe in gods.

That's it.

As for myself? I have strong doubts there are any such thing as "spirits".

Apart from the ones you occasionally detect, after a heavy meal of Mexican food ....

... naturally.

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7979 Apr 12, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Not a good example. The wheel's very existence does not hinge upon whether or not it's inventor existed - his identity doesn't matter. Christianity hinges on whether or not jesus existed.
I don't understand how your obama analogy relates to what I was saying.
A)..okay..Who discovered the number "zero" ..(If that is still ,a poor example)..I may have to concede ,as I don't really know if I can point to a historical figure ,we can reasonably assume existed , yet not found in any texts..

B) As a sovereign leader ,God can reasonably expect those under His authority to obey His dictates ..
B1) Our leaders use "other" men to implement ...."their wills"...Why, not God ..??..If "you" save someone from a fire ..(theists) believe "you" are acting as Gods hands ..

C)When you have children ...will you do "everything" for them ....???...

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7980 Apr 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not?
What's your god gonna do?
Strike me with ... lightning? LMAO!
I challenged your do-nothing god YEARS ago...
... no lightning.
LMAO!
...I knew you were a Believer ...
Libertarian

UK

#7981 Apr 12, 2013
If you've been oppressed for centuries by people making stuff up about a magical being and making you suffer for not believing the same rubbish is it any wonder an atheist would be wary of debating with any religous person not willing to speak with reason and logic.

It would be like poking a lion with a stick.

A brave believer would be willing to admit there is not one iota of historical evidence to support absolutely any religion you care to name.

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7982 Apr 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
And there is yet another way to pay for this, without changing anything tax-related.
Eliminate the stupid and not-working "war on drugs".
Just stop.
Legalize all the affected drugs in question, with nice, generic safe government approved alternatives-- leave the buzz in, naturally, but try to strip out the addiction factor.
With the influx of cheap, safe alternatives? The illegal street drugs will drop to manageable levels, and the majority of major crime groups will find themselves without income.... making a mess of South America, but hey-- can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs...
... meanwhile, the huge cash-surplus you will get from all of this? Part of it-- a small fraction-- goes into free drug-rehab clinics, available everywhere. No restrictions of any kind to anyone who wants help-- as often as they need/want.
Benefits? Crime goes down-- waaaay down. Prison populations drop too... waaaaay down.
Those that really want out? Get the help they need, no charge--cheaper than putting them in jail too. Much cheaper-- and if the rehab works? They return to good little productive citizens.
Those that cannot manage to quit? Get cheap drugs until they die. No need to commit crime to fuel their habit, either. A win-win for everyone.
Within a few generations, the genetic tendency to be addicted will be drastically reduced from the gene pool, in a natural, humane process ... automatically, without fuss or muss.
Nobody has to go to jail. Money is saved.
Lots and LOTS and lots of money is saved--
-- allowing those free rehab clinics to be expanded to absolutely free basic medical care for everyone and anyone who wants/needs it.
Even immigrants. Atheists too.
And you would STILL have money left over to balance the federal budget....
..Most citizens believe drugs are harmful ..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7983 Apr 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
It only looks flat, if you shut off your brain-- as religion teaches you to do.
The bible clearly describes the earth as a flat round disc... but with 4 "corners", held up by 4 pillars...(up from...what? bible doesn't say....)
And since the bible is the ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY according to religion?
Anyone who questions this, gets killed. Or worse.
So anyone who observed the obvious: watching a ship sail away over the horizon is one >>empiric<< example of around world...
... if you are not deathly afraid of pointing out the bible is...
... wrong...
<quoted text>
Jesus never existed, so it hardly matters.
But.
If he DID?
He was pretty much a narcissist. He >>demanded<< exclusive adoration to the point of fanaticism.
So, if he was real? Yeah-- he damn right cared if he was popular-- in fact, he would've insisted on it.
Or he'd kill your sorry azz....
.... just like his daddy.
A)The Bible was written centuries ago , kinda before the era of advanced technology
and discovery ...

B) well, my understanding is when they "tried" to make Jesus King , He'd escape ..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7984 Apr 12, 2013
Libertarian wrote:
If you've been oppressed for centuries by people making stuff up about a magical being and making you suffer for not believing the same rubbish is it any wonder an atheist would be wary of debating with any religous person not willing to speak with reason and logic.
It would be like poking a lion with a stick.
A brave believer would be willing to admit there is not one iota of historical evidence to support absolutely any religion you care to name.
Human pass knowledge on to their progeny , all our science , math , astronomy , governments , languages and medicine were hard won by those who came before us ..

The Bible asserts Jesus healed the blind and deaf, cured leprosy resurrected the dead , and even Himself came back from the dead...And, all His apostles were all killed for spreading His message ...What more do you want ...??

The Bible is ..."here" ...It contains the words of Life and the history of God's involvement with His people ..

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7985 Apr 12, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>A)..okay..Who discovered the number "zero" ..(If that is still ,a poor example)..I may have to concede ,as I don't really know if I can point to a historical figure ,we can reasonably assume existed , yet not found in any texts..
B) As a sovereign leader ,God can reasonably expect those under His authority to obey His dictates ..
Math is not a discovery-- it's an invention.

Or more specifically, it's kind of like an artificial language, invented to explore the logic of a specific set of circumstances confined by the initial axioms of the given mathematical system.

In mathematics, the particular system you are examining is entirely self-contained too.

There is a lucky side effect, though: it seems that some aspects of reality actually appear to conform to certain types of math.

So, in truth, the >>only<< thing that math actually proves is ... math.

But scientists have discovered that certain maths appear to model certain aspects of reality, and are therefore a useful tool to modeling those aspects of reality.

Does that make any sense?

One of the nicer aspects of mathematics, is that it is entirely logical and internally consistent, within the confines of that system of maths.
number four wrote:
B1) Our leaders use "other" men to implement ...."their wills"...Why, not God ..??..If "you" save someone from a fire ..(theists) believe "you" are acting as Gods hands ..
C)When you have children ...will you do "everything" for them ....???...
If god is omniscient, as your typical label demands?

Then the will of god totally eliminates any chance of free will for that universe.

Why?

Because who can thwart the will of god--except god? Certainly not mere mortal humans!

So of this omniscient god has plans? Then those plans >>will<< be fulfilled.

And free will is impossible-- everyone >>must<< do what was pre-planned for them to do.

And free will is therefore? An illusion, however clever.

That's the problem with such all-powerful beings existing: they wipe out the basics of what it means to be alive....

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7986 Apr 12, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>...I knew you were a Believer ...
You are silly.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7987 Apr 12, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..Most citizens believe drugs are harmful ..
And they are lying to themselves if they claim that.

Have you ever taken an aspirin? Cough syrup? Drunk coffee or coke? Taken antibiotics?

All of those either are drugs are contain drugs.

Modern medicine could not work, without drugs.

The sole difference, is some one arbitrarily decided some were illegal.

That's it.

EVERYTHING you eat has potential harmful effects-- EVERYTHING.

It is all a matter of degree.

More to the point? Alcohol is demonstratively harmful. Yet, it's legal. Same for tobacco. Same for caffeine. Same for hormones--natural and artificial (hydrocortizone is an artificial hormone, for example--a very common ingredient in skin cremes).

You, yourself likely take some form of drug every single day of your life, often without realizing it.

If an >>adult<< wishes to do harm to their own health? Are we obligated to prevent that?

If you say yes-- think about what you just said? What if the "harm" is over-eating? Do we then forcefully limit what they are permitted to eat?

What if the "harm" is a failure to take vitamins? Are we then obligated to force-feed them daily vitamins?

Where does it stop????

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7988 Apr 12, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>A)The Bible was written centuries ago , kinda before the era of advanced technology
and discovery ...
And that? That right there? Is 100% proof your bible is NOT from any god or gods.

NOT.

Because it's too dimwitted, by modern standards.

A GOD would have known better-- or send down a revision, as a bare minimum of ethical behavior.

Good!
number four wrote:
B) well, my understanding is when they "tried" to make Jesus King , He'd escape ..
Sure, sure-- narcissism is not >>always<< about being king.

Why limit yourself to king of a tiny, punk country, when you could be emperor of the whole earth?

Think about it-- you'll get it.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7989 Apr 12, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>Human pass knowledge on to their progeny , all our science , math , astronomy , governments , languages and medicine were hard won by those who came before us ..
The Bible asserts Jesus healed the blind and deaf, cured leprosy resurrected the dead , and even Himself came back from the dead...And, all His apostles were all killed for spreading His message ...What more do you want ...??
The Bible is ..."here" ...It contains the words of Life and the history of God's involvement with His people ..
Your proof that this horribly ugly book actually DOES contain the words of a god... is what?

I don't know about YOU?

But.

As for me? I expect >>GODLY<< workings from an actual... you know... GOD.

I mean, think about it for a sec: can just anyone write mystery/horror as well as Stephen King does?

No-- Stephen King is a writing genius. He is so good, if he decided to write a commercial, it is very likely your average Stephen King >>fan<< would immediately recognize a Stephen King TV commercial, without having to be told.

Yes, he's that good at writing mystery/horror stories.

But Stephen King is just a human man.

Now.

Suppose a... you know... all-powerful, all-knowing GOD decided to write a book.

And let's suppose he had to put >>SOME<< limits, just to make this book readable by humans.

But, the author is still... you know... a frikkin GOD.

An >>INFINITELY<< better writer than any mere mortal HUMAN could ever hope to be-- EVEN IF LIMITED.

So.

Anyone paying attention, would--without trying-- immediately recognize the GODLIKE GENIUS of anything written by this being.

Does the bible qualify?

No.

Not even close-- modern humans are FAR SUPERIOR writers than what the bible is.

So there you go!

The bible is NOT written by any gods of any sort--

--- but 100% by mere mortal, fallible... men.

Thus?

The bible is NOT the words of any gods at all.

Just words by ...

... men.

And rather bigoted, ignorant, morally-inferior men at that....

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7992 Apr 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Math is not a discovery-- it's an invention.
Or more specifically, it's kind of like an artificial language, invented to explore the logic of a specific set of circumstances confined by the initial axioms of the given mathematical system.
In mathematics, the particular system you are examining is entirely self-contained too.
There is a lucky side effect, though: it seems that some aspects of reality actually appear to conform to certain types of math.
So, in truth, the >>only<< thing that math actually proves is ... math.
But scientists have discovered that certain maths appear to model certain aspects of reality, and are therefore a useful tool to modeling those aspects of reality.
Does that make any sense?
One of the nicer aspects of mathematics, is that it is entirely logical and internally consistent, within the confines of that system of maths.
<quoted text>
If god is omniscient, as your typical label demands?
Then the will of god totally eliminates any chance of free will for that universe.
Why?
Because who can thwart the will of god--except god? Certainly not mere mortal humans!
So of this omniscient god has plans? Then those plans >>will<< be fulfilled.
And free will is impossible-- everyone >>must<< do what was pre-planned for them to do.
And free will is therefore? An illusion, however clever.
That's the problem with such all-powerful beings existing: they wipe out the basics of what it means to be alive....
..Mathematics ) The science of numbers ...is an invention ..??...That ,sounds okay..

Well, We can assume God planned for "a lot" of disappointments and set backs ..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7993 Apr 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Your proof that this horribly ugly book actually DOES contain the words of a god... is what?
I don't know about YOU?
But.
As for me? I expect >>GODLY<< workings from an actual... you know... GOD.
I mean, think about it for a sec: can just anyone write mystery/horror as well as Stephen King does?
No-- Stephen King is a writing genius. He is so good, if he decided to write a commercial, it is very likely your average Stephen King >>fan<< would immediately recognize a Stephen King TV commercial, without having to be told.
Yes, he's that good at writing mystery/horror stories.
But Stephen King is just a human man.
Now.
Suppose a... you know... all-powerful, all-knowing GOD decided to write a book.
And let's suppose he had to put >>SOME<< limits, just to make this book readable by humans.
But, the author is still... you know... a frikkin GOD.
An >>INFINITELY<< better writer than any mere mortal HUMAN could ever hope to be-- EVEN IF LIMITED.
So.
Anyone paying attention, would--without trying-- immediately recognize the GODLIKE GENIUS of anything written by this being.
Does the bible qualify?
No.
Not even close-- modern humans are FAR SUPERIOR writers than what the bible is.
So there you go!
The bible is NOT written by any gods of any sort--
--- but 100% by mere mortal, fallible... men.
Thus?
The bible is NOT the words of any gods at all.
Just words by ...
... men.
And rather bigoted, ignorant, morally-inferior men at that....
.....Everybody's, a critic....

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7994 Apr 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
And they are lying to themselves if they claim that.
Have you ever taken an aspirin? Cough syrup? Drunk coffee or coke? Taken antibiotics?
All of those either are drugs are contain drugs.
Modern medicine could not work, without drugs.
The sole difference, is some one arbitrarily decided some were illegal.
That's it.
EVERYTHING you eat has potential harmful effects-- EVERYTHING.
It is all a matter of degree.
More to the point? Alcohol is demonstratively harmful. Yet, it's legal. Same for tobacco. Same for caffeine. Same for hormones--natural and artificial (hydrocortizone is an artificial hormone, for example--a very common ingredient in skin cremes).
You, yourself likely take some form of drug every single day of your life, often without realizing it.
If an >>adult<< wishes to do harm to their own health? Are we obligated to prevent that?
If you say yes-- think about what you just said? What if the "harm" is over-eating? Do we then forcefully limit what they are permitted to eat?
What if the "harm" is a failure to take vitamins? Are we then obligated to force-feed them daily vitamins?
Where does it stop????
What of the good of the citizenry , narcotics destroys families ..and, bodies .....

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7995 Apr 12, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..Mathematics ) The science of numbers ...is an invention ..??...That ,sounds okay..
Well, We can assume God planned for "a lot" of disappointments and set backs ..
Yep.

As for your god? If you believe your god >>deliberately<< set things up such that he routinely disappointed folk?

That sounds like your god is really, really bad at this god thing.

Seriously.

That's a fail of epic levels.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7996 Apr 12, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>.....Everybody's, a critic....
So you agree?

That a book written by an actual GOD, should be GOD-LIKE in it's scope, style and content?

Good.

Then you must also agree that the bible does not measure up in any of these qualities.

Therefore?

The bible is not from any god at all.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7997 Apr 12, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>What of the good of the citizenry , narcotics destroys families ..and, bodies .....
Only if there is an artificially-inflated demand for it, which the "war on drugs" creates.

If narcotics-- most of which are prescription by the way-- were all legal?

You'd eliminate much of the demand right there.

And the only reason why they destroy families, is because they ARE illegal. Such that anyone using them, is automatically a criminal-- INCLUDING INNOCENT FAMILY MEMBERS.

Did you know that the majority of women in prison, are there because they DATED or were married to a drug user? But that they themselves did not use? It's true-- these women (always poor-- another injustice) are automatically presumed to be included in the illegal activities of their user-boyfriend/husbands.

In may cases, the house is busted, the user is absent (probably out looking for his next fix) but the girlfriend/spouse is home asleep--being the only one with a job-- but she goes to jail, because they find the spouse's illegal stash, and blame her...

... happens all the time. Too often.

Nobody wins in that situation: the kids (if any) go into the state-care system (costing taxpayers) the woman goes into the prison system (costing taxpayers) and the spouse continues to use, having moved on to the next idiot who believes his lies...

... and the property owner has to pay for the damage the police raid causes--including replacing the doors, the floors, the walls--where the police raiders ripped them up looking for the stash... so he writes it off, pays less taxes (costing the taxpayers...again).

Then there is the extra double-cost of special anti-drug police units-- again costing taxpayers....!
Mary Magdalena

United States

#7998 Apr 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>I could not possibly care what the last, dying words of people who are sick, dying and under severe stress might have to say.

That doesn't change anything.

But it does point out one flaw in your ugly religion:

Only people who are sick, dying and under severe mental duress, fall for your ugly religion's lies.

That is not an endorsement for your beliefs-- in fact?

That is the exact opposite: only >>crazy<< people--if only temporarily -- will buy what you are selling.

And I agree: only someone insane believes your lies.

What does that say about you?
"I could not possibly care what the last, dying words of people who are sick, dying and under severe stress might have to say. "

Exactly how we feel about you bobby.

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