Atheism and cowardice

Nov 18, 2011 Full story: Conservapedia 12,667

Have any of the New Atheists toured [[Islam]]ic countries giving lectures in which they condemn [[Allah]], [[Muhammad]], Islam, or Muslims? Have any of them debated Muslims in Islamic countries? Have any of them been interviewed on Al Jazeera? Have any of them written entire books in which they condemn Allah, Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims? Have they ... (more)

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“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#7793 Apr 3, 2013
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I have witnessed that before. I have seen atheists, agnostic, non-theists beg for forgiveness when their lives were coming to an end. Strangest thing I've ever seen but it did happen. Of course people will contest this but I did happen. I'm not saying all if them would do that but I'm sure some if them will.
I am a former minister, a first responder, and a firefighter, I also have a few decades on you in terms of life experience, and I have seen death, and too damned much of it. And I have yet to see the first person beg for forgiveness at the end of their life. Now I am sure it happens, but unless you are the one who is ending their lives and directing their words, you have not heard all that you claim.

From auto accidents, fire, massive traumas, overdoses and even suicide attempts, I have heard them screaming in pain, I heard them beg for their parents or spouse, I have heard them asking for help, don't let me die, but not once have I heard a single person ask for the holey spook for forgiveness.

I have been present for the death of exactly one atheist and he smiled, a lot, he slept, he held his child's hand, he gazed at a wall, he touched the blanket that was covering him and he sighed, he closed his eyes and left. His children cried, he didn't.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#7794 Apr 3, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>This is coming from a creationist that believes that jesus rode on the backs of dinosaurs.

Educated What wrote, "<quoted text>
Strangest thing I've ever seen but it did happen."

You don't believe in fossils, so we question everything you've *seen*.

Educated What wrote, "<quoted text>
Of course people will contest this but I did happen."

Of course we'll contest it - you're a proven creationist liar who failed to get into a propoer university and had to settle for the apologist school for failed creationist and philosophy hacks called notre dame.

Educated What wrote, "<quoted text>
I'm not saying all if them would do that but I'm sure some if them will."

You don't have any proof of god, that is your main problem. It is a mental illness, what you suffer from.
You don't have any proof of your claims so that makes you a liar.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#7795 Apr 3, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>I am a former minister, a first responder, and a firefighter, I also have a few decades on you in terms of life experience, and I have seen death, and too damned much of it. And I have yet to see the first person beg for forgiveness at the end of their life. Now I am sure it happens, but unless you are the one who is ending their lives and directing their words, you have not heard all that you claim.

From auto accidents, fire, massive traumas, overdoses and even suicide attempts, I have heard them screaming in pain, I heard them beg for their parents or spouse, I have heard them asking for help, don't let me die, but not once have I heard a single person ask for the holey spook for forgiveness.

I have been present for the death of exactly one atheist and he smiled, a lot, he slept, he held his child's hand, he gazed at a wall, he touched the blanket that was covering him and he sighed, he closed his eyes and left. His children cried, he didn't.
I use to be a paramedic before my career now. Don't tell me about what you have seen and what I haven't seen. I guarantee I have seen what I claimed. I have seen so many deaths that I changed my career.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7796 Apr 3, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>We have written documents , personal diaries ,personal letters , Government and Church records , census records and if we are lucky oral traditions ..........viola....History..!!
You are quoting ME, and a post I made EARLIER.

LMAO!

Too funny!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7797 Apr 3, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..You will never find anything comparable to this Jesus ...His continued presence is "inexplicable" ..He had no pelf ,wrote nothing and held no political power ....yet, when you Heathens feel sharp pain or a sudden loss of wealth (smash a finger/or break a window)...you cry out His name ....
Not even close:

Your Jesus is a COPY of 1000's of other, similar legendary tales common to the era.

The sole difference? Is that Constantine-- a despot-leader over much of Europe-- wanted a RELIGION specifically designed to pacify the masses.

So he created one: Christianity.

And force-converted everyone (or they were killed) under his power, to follow the newly-minted brand.

The rest, as they say, is history...

... a subject you keep flunking, I might add.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7798 Apr 3, 2013
Thinking wrote:
A viola is a string instrument, you dozy Poe.
<quoted text>
LOL!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7799 Apr 3, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats only social conditioning. There are hindus, buddhists, muslims and others, who have different saviours.
There are many "jesus-like" legendary figures.

Here's a list of 10:
10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus

" http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-lik... ;

Horus
Attis of Phrygia
Zoroaster/Zarathustra
Glycon
Heracles
Dionysus
Romulus
Odysseus
Krishna
Buddha

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7800 Apr 3, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
It is actually quite common to have historical accounts from both sides of a conflict. You see, it is very rare for the 'victors' to completely destroy the 'vanquished'. Much more common is that a few battles are fought and each goes and writes the history to serve their purposes.

Now, all history is written with definite *biases*: cultural, political, philosophical, etc. That means a historian must be *very* careful about the interpretation of any writings, even 'first hand accounts'.

An easy example is the one you gave: the 'Civil War' vs the 'War of Northern Aggression'. Both names are clearly biased and convey a particular political view of the conflict. But, both views still agree that there was a war, that certain battles were fought, etc. There are many facts on which even the biased viewpoints are based. Generally speaking, one should be very cautious about claims of who started a conflict: the various sides will often disagree strongly about this. It is common for one side to present a battle as significant while the other side portrays it as a minor skirmish. Guess which side lost?

So yes, history is biased; each side presents its view of what happened and views it through the lens of its own culture, philosophy, politics, etc. But that doesn't mean that it is all fiction. There are still many facts that can be teased out of the biased accounts of the different sides.
Well done-- up to your usual scholarly standards too.

I am humbled by your superior patience and willingness to try to educate fools.

:)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7801 Apr 3, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>I am a former minister, a first responder, and a firefighter, I also have a few decades on you in terms of life experience, and I have seen death, and too damned much of it. And I have yet to see the first person beg for forgiveness at the end of their life. Now I am sure it happens, but unless you are the one who is ending their lives and directing their words, you have not heard all that you claim.

From auto accidents, fire, massive traumas, overdoses and even suicide attempts, I have heard them screaming in pain, I heard them beg for their parents or spouse, I have heard them asking for help, don't let me die, but not once have I heard a single person ask for the holey spook for forgiveness.

I have been present for the death of exactly one atheist and he smiled, a lot, he slept, he held his child's hand, he gazed at a wall, he touched the blanket that was covering him and he sighed, he closed his eyes and left. His children cried, he didn't.
Which brings up a point I always wonder about.

It has to do with True Believers™ claims about last-minute conversions.

If their god is so inept, so unconvincing, that it literally requires a person to be under literal threat for his or her very existence, literally the last minutes of their life--frequently while experiencing intense pain, mental pressure, and so on...

... WTF?

What sort of god is it, that is >>only<< convincing under those extreme situations of duress?

I mean-- why cannot this god manage to be convincing during NORMAL life?

To normal people I mean-- I discount the obviously insane (such as EW, et al) and I also discount those who stand to gain immense personal power and wealth (the Pat Robertson's of the world) and I discount those who have suffered serious brainwashing--but don't realize it--

-- the point is, why don't rational, highly educated people become convinced of this ... this god-thing.

Hmmmm?

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7802 Apr 3, 2013
Thinking wrote:
A viola is a string instrument, you dozy Poe.
<quoted text>
I had a public education .!!..you...You..word Nazi ...!!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#7803 Apr 3, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>I had a public education .!!..you...You..word Nazi ...!!
That's no excuse. I did too.

I didn't let that limitation limit what I was able to learn; indeed, with the worlds first world-wide information source?

I learn more now, than I did then-- the internet makes it possible for anyone who has access to it, to learn.

So. What's your excuse? You clearly have internet access...

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7804 Apr 3, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I love being out on a clear, dark night under the stars. And I also know that doesn't show that a deity exists.
<quoted text>
Cultural biases? We are part of a culture whose history is steeped in the Christian world view. So it is natural that many of our names are linked with that tradition.
A) You're under the stars a lot ..??..( can I assume the wife locks you out of the home regularly ??)

B)Ahh, Cultural biases ....this makes more sense than Christian privilege ...yet, as we know, according to worldly standards ...these Men and Women accomplished ..very little ..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7805 Apr 3, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That's no excuse. I did too.
I didn't let that limitation limit what I was able to learn; indeed, with the worlds first world-wide information source?
I learn more now, than I did then-- the internet makes it possible for anyone who has access to it, to learn.
So. What's your excuse? You clearly have internet access...
I didn't see "you" catch my mistake ...In fact you assert I copied your post ...I guess we're just both dumb ..eh..??

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7806 Apr 3, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many "jesus-like" legendary figures.
Here's a list of 10:
10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus
" http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-lik... ;
Horus
Attis of Phrygia
Zoroaster/Zarathustra
Glycon
Heracles
Dionysus
Romulus
Odysseus
Krishna
Buddha
Jesus was poor ..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7807 Apr 3, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Which brings up a point I always wonder about.
It has to do with True Believers™ claims about last-minute conversions.
If their god is so inept, so unconvincing, that it literally requires a person to be under literal threat for his or her very existence, literally the last minutes of their life--frequently while experiencing intense pain, mental pressure, and so on...
... WTF?
What sort of god is it, that is >>only<< convincing under those extreme situations of duress?
I mean-- why cannot this god manage to be convincing during NORMAL life?
To normal people I mean-- I discount the obviously insane (such as EW, et al) and I also discount those who stand to gain immense personal power and wealth (the Pat Robertson's of the world) and I discount those who have suffered serious brainwashing--but don't realize it--
-- the point is, why don't rational, highly educated people become convinced of this ... this god-thing.
Hmmmm?
Human nature at play ...how many repent of their crimes ...after they've been caught ..??

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7808 Apr 3, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Not even close:
Your Jesus is a COPY of 1000's of other, similar legendary tales common to the era.
The sole difference? Is that Constantine-- a despot-leader over much of Europe-- wanted a RELIGION specifically designed to pacify the masses.
So he created one: Christianity.
And force-converted everyone (or they were killed) under his power, to follow the newly-minted brand.
The rest, as they say, is history...
... a subject you keep flunking, I might add.
I haven't found anything to corroborate this "history" ....There are a few St.Constantine churches in the Ukraine ...If he were really the driving force behind Christianity , there would really be more Churches named in his honor ...(try and find one )..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7809 Apr 3, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>I am a former minister, a first responder, and a firefighter, I also have a few decades on you in terms of life experience, and I have seen death, and too damned much of it. And I have yet to see the first person beg for forgiveness at the end of their life. Now I am sure it happens, but unless you are the one who is ending their lives and directing their words, you have not heard all that you claim.
From auto accidents, fire, massive traumas, overdoses and even suicide attempts, I have heard them screaming in pain, I heard them beg for their parents or spouse, I have heard them asking for help, don't let me die, but not once have I heard a single person ask for the holey spook for forgiveness.
I have been present for the death of exactly one atheist and he smiled, a lot, he slept, he held his child's hand, he gazed at a wall, he touched the blanket that was covering him and he sighed, he closed his eyes and left. His children cried, he didn't.
Holy Crap ...your knees and back ..must be shot ...No one should work this hard ......!!

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7810 Apr 3, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank goodness for that, nobody wants your mental illness where you believe stuff without proof and have to go around lying about it in order to cover up your own stupidity, instead of being moral and honest.
<quoted text>
Never existed - part of your mental illness not shared by sane people.
<quoted text>
Theists trying to win believer with empty threats from their imaginations has never worked ever.
You are sick people who wish hurt on others with your imagination, sick sick people.
Will you accept Jesus ....If I give you cash ...???

nah, I'm just joking ..

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#7811 Apr 3, 2013
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
I use to be a paramedic before my career now. Don't tell me about what you have seen and what I haven't seen. I guarantee I have seen what I claimed. I have seen so many deaths that I changed my career.
You are 28, with two degrees from Notre Dame, and working on a third, burned out on one career, and now a successful business owner, and parent to more than one "in school" but yet non-existent child, and dying people make sure to tell you that they are, or were atheist, agnostic and theist.

As someone who has lived that which you have claimed, I don't believe you. Someone with the dedication to accomplish those things, not only would have the education to get themselves to that level, but they would skillfully display that education level, in their thinking, which would then translate to their writings, and you don't do either.

And yeah, I know what you are going to say "educational barrier". In other don't critique those who claim, but can't produce. Your level of education will always out itself, and it has.

The 4 sentences that you posted here are are proof of that

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#7812 Apr 3, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
It is actually quite common to have historical accounts from both sides of a conflict. You see, it is very rare for the 'victors' to completely destroy the 'vanquished'. Much more common is that a few battles are fought and each goes and writes the history to serve their purposes.
Now, all history is written with definite *biases*: cultural, political, philosophical, etc. That means a historian must be *very* careful about the interpretation of any writings, even 'first hand accounts'.
An easy example is the one you gave: the 'Civil War' vs the 'War of Northern Aggression'. Both names are clearly biased and convey a particular political view of the conflict. But, both views still agree that there was a war, that certain battles were fought, etc. There are many facts on which even the biased viewpoints are based. Generally speaking, one should be very cautious about claims of who started a conflict: the various sides will often disagree strongly about this. It is common for one side to present a battle as significant while the other side portrays it as a minor skirmish. Guess which side lost?
So yes, history is biased; each side presents its view of what happened and views it through the lens of its own culture, philosophy, politics, etc. But that doesn't mean that it is all fiction. There are still many facts that can be teased out of the biased accounts of the different sides.
..duh..

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