I renounce Islam

Since: Apr 12

Concord, CA

#22 Feb 3, 2013
Trisha wrote:
awww Thank you, Sweetie!
I guess you're right, who knows how many Muslims might be helped who are reading here. We never know!
See, keep working hard and you never know some day you might even convert some socks into things more honorable...(like gloves).

Have any idea who Ex-Muslim could be? It would be interesting to find out, and I wish he/she would disclose that info.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#23 Feb 3, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
See, keep working hard and you never know some day you might even convert some socks into things more honorable...(like gloves).
Have any idea who Ex-Muslim could be? It would be interesting to find out, and I wish he/she would disclose that info.
Socks are less honorable than gloves?

LOL!

You're too funny!

No idea, I try to take everyone at their word until they start behaving weird.

Since: Feb 13

Quesnel, Canada

#24 Feb 3, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
See, keep working hard and you never know some day you might even convert some socks into things more honorable...(like gloves).
Have any idea who Ex-Muslim could be? It would be interesting to find out, and I wish he/she would disclose that info.
Sorry Rusty Tin Can, it is quite hard to find threads of mine from that long ago!

I have managed to track down a thread of mine from 6 years back..
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TEN...

I am that Believer in Science who rambles like an idiot about how Islam is backed by all science and that evolution is false and so on.

It is quite embarassing to say the least... oh how much has changed in those 6 years.

Since: Feb 13

Quesnel, Canada

#25 Feb 3, 2013
Trisha wrote:
<quoted text>
awww Thank you, Sweetie!
I guess you're right, who knows how many Muslims might be helped who are reading here. We never know!
No problem, cause I happen to be one of those that were helped :)

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#26 Feb 3, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Rusty Tin Can, it is quite hard to find threads of mine from that long ago!
I have managed to track down a thread of mine from 6 years back..
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TEN...
I am that Believer in Science who rambles like an idiot about how Islam is backed by all science and that evolution is false and so on.
It is quite embarassing to say the least... oh how much has changed in those 6 years.
Your posts are always so civilized and polite. You're a good person, Sweetheart.

Since: Feb 13

Quesnel, Canada

#27 Feb 3, 2013
Trisha wrote:
<quoted text>
Your posts are always so civilized and polite. You're a good person, Sweetheart.
Your words are too kind :) It's good to discuss these things with like-minded people.
FONTAINE

Houston, TX

#28 Feb 3, 2013
Trisha wrote:
You're a good person, Sweetheart. If you also have a big koklette I'll be happy to fck with you.
In fact I'd be happy to fck with anyone.
I'm getting bored of Ravenclaw's dogs... their jizz doesn't taste as salty as men's.
You should also tell him of those nasty STDs you carry.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#29 Feb 3, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
... I reject all religions for the very same reason I left Islam.
Mysticism and spirtuality are simply constructs of the human mind to make sense of the world around them. It is a form of immaturity. I realized this and abandoned it. I do not comfort myself with fairy tells of a life after death, or that there is a loving God above ...
But what if there really is a loving God above?
Pascal's challenge claims you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain by accepting it.

Since: Feb 13

Quesnel, Canada

#30 Feb 3, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
But what if there really is a loving God above?
Pascal's challenge claims you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain by accepting it.
Ah very interesting point to bring up. I remember I used to use Pascal's Wager often in debates.

In Univeristy however, I was discussing it with my chemistry professor and he gave a very strong rebuttal that changed my views on it.

Pascal's wager, as you may know, works on the basis that if there is a god and you don't believe in him, you have more to lose than if there isn't a god, but you believe in him anyway (at least that's it in a nutshell).

However the question remains... what is the right god to believe in? The Abrahamic god? Yawheh, Jehovah, Allah? The Hindu gods? Shiva, Ram, Krishna? The Buddha?

There are multiple revelations and many different gods. I cannot say I have nothing to lose by believing in one of these, as at the same time I would be rejecting the others, and accruing the possiblity that one of these others is the right one and I have just damned myself. As JL. Makie wrote, J. L. Mackie notes that "the church within which alone salvation is to be found is not necessarily the Church of Rome, but perhaps that of the Anabaptists or the Mormons or the Muslim Sunnis or the worshipers of Kali or of Odin." This is called the Argument from Inconsistent Revelations, you can read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_in...

Moreover, the famous French philosphe Voltaire cricized Pascal's wager, on the argument that it fails to rely on proof, relying on abstract lines of thinking and not empircial proof or evidence. He went on to say, "the interest I have to believe a thing is no proof that such a thing exists." Him and his associates argue that revelations and holy books can be put to the test by comparing them against scientific and empirical knowledge. See La Philosophie, Tome 2 (La Connaissance), Denis Huisman, André Vergez, Marabout 1994, pp.462-63 for more about this argument.

Also, there is a third argument, the argument against inauthentic belief. Essentially it states that belief in a god of your choice based on this wager would not be based on complete acceptance and unshakable belief in your divinity, but rather a sort of defensive and cautious belief, ie. inauthentic. Richard Carrier writes in his book, The End of Pascal's Wager,
"Suppose there is a god who is watching us and choosing which souls of the deceased to bring to heaven, and this god really does want only the morally good to populate heaven. He will probably select from only those who made a significant and responsible effort to discover the truth...Therefore, only such people can be sufficiently moral and trustworthy to deserve a place in heaven — unless God wishes to fill heaven with the morally lazy, irresponsible, or untrustworthy." More on this subject can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal 's_Wager#Argument_from_inconsi stent_revelations

That being said, I have no problems with people who do believe in god. However these examples and links I have provided are reasons why I don't accept Pascal's Wager as something that justifies the belief in a god.

Since: Dec 12

UK

#31 Feb 3, 2013
welcome to the world of sanity exmuslim
Gary

Ashburn, VA

#32 Feb 4, 2013
Good decision islam is fake and evil

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#33 Feb 4, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
Pascal's wager, as you may know, works on the basis that if there is a god and you don't believe in him, you have more to lose than if there isn't a god ...
I don't recall that Pascal ever used the indefinate article when referring to God, or Dieu; as a Christian living in Roman Catholic France, Pascal was most likely referring to the Judeo-Christian God who freely offers salvation.

Context is everything.

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#35 Feb 4, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
I thought many Muslims would resort to label me as a Christian pretending to be a Muslim that left Islam, but it is not the case.
I am a Pakistani man of 21 years of age. My parents are moderately religious, and I too grew up to be a religious person. I was taught to be fluent in Arabic, Urdu, and English, and even spent some time with my maternal uncle (who is an Imam) on Tableeghi Jamad to California. I have made the Hajj and the Umrah twice, and I even headed the youth club at my local mosque when I was younger, even participating in local inter-faith debates. I really was a Muslim, whether you accept it or not. In fact I was much like you, so protective of Islam, convinced that it was true and confirmed by science, and that all of the horrible things that Muslims do was not "true" Islam. It was very hard letting go of that mentality.
Secondly your addressal of Islam’s supposedly "scientifically" proven nature. Please demonstrate to me with verses and hadith what specifically you feel is a proof that science confirms Allah? I have a degree in Biochemistry and working on a minor in Physics, so I have quite an area of expertise in science and will.examine these verses/hadith.
Did you go straight from Muslim to Atheist, or would you consider yourself an agnostic? Were you a Sunni? Ahmadi? Do you know of the story of Farhan Qureshi?(he is an Ahmadi turned Sunni apologist turned agnostic).

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#36 Feb 4, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
As a side note:
But let me be clear. What annoys me most about these forums is when I see Christians and other religious fanatics coming here to denegrate Islam while claiming the superiority of their religion.
...
You ridicule the Muslims for refusing to think critically and see that their religion is false and the work of men, not God. It is ironic that you do the same. By claiming that your religion is somehow truer than Islam, is absolute poppycock. All relgion is false, some are more false than others (like Islam). But do not consider than my deperature from Islam supports you in anyway. I reject all religions for the very same reason I left Islam.
Mysticism and spirtuality are simply constructs of the human mind to make sense of the world around them. It is a form of immaturity. I realized this and abandoned it. I do not comfort myself with fairy tells of a life after death, or that there is a loving God above. I know that life is simply a product of chance, and that the universe is too.
Did you realize that you did just that - "claiming the superiority" of your new belief of atheism as "truer" than your prior belief as well as that of others? Don't get me wrong, I cheer your departure from Islam, but at the same time I think your perception of what "some christians" do when they speak against Islam as if it "is somehow truer" is simply a necessary consequence of their belief which is no difference from what you are stating here. "TRUTH" is mutually exclusive, so it is just too natural that people have opposing views, and ultimately it comes down to one's worldview beyond which you can't have any logical arguments against or for it.
Latifah

Petaling Jaya, Malaysia

#37 Feb 4, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
A couple of years ago I used to be on this forum as an ardent Muslim who tried to defend Islam against what I perceived were baseless attacks. I'm not some troll or a non-muslim guy pretending to have left Islam just to discredit it. I really truly was a strong believing Muslim.
How much has changed since then. After a while of thinking and reasoning, I began to see the flaws of Islam become more apparent. Muslims invent imaginative lies and frivolous explainations to cover up some of the dirtiest aspects of Islam. The Qur'an is not filled with scientific miracles as they propose, but rather numerous fallacies and scientific errors. It systematically opresses women and treats them lesser then men (see Hadith: "Women are deficent in intelligence to men" and Qu'ran: "Men have been made a few degrees superior to women". The list can go on, but I will summarize; it is backwards, incorrect, and extremely flawed.
After realizing this, I renounced Islam. Of course I cannot tell my family or friends this, as the penalty for leaving Islam is death (another reason why I was convinced Islam is incredibly false). So I must pretend to be a Muslim for my own sake, something which drives me crazy every day to watch them do their silly rituals, believe in their nonsensical things (Jinn, black magic, etc.), and their rejection of modern science and learning (like Evolution).
So i just wanted to let all the people on this forum attacking Islam that what you are doing is working. You are starting the process of critical thinking in some Muslims (like myself) that allows us to see what Islam really is, and to leave it. So please don't stop, especially all the athiests and scientists. I am now an athiest, and replaced my vigour of learning Islam for learning about what the world truly is.
For all Muslims reading this: Please stop trying to defend relgion. One day hopefully you will have the epiphany that I did, and leave it. I too was once an ardent supporter, and it took me a long time to leave Islam, but I'm convinced that I made the right choice.
What sins did you commit that compelled you to leave Holy Islam in shame?

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#38 Feb 4, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
Ah very interesting point to bring up. I remember I used to use Pascal's Wager often in debates.
In Univeristy however, I was discussing it with my chemistry professor and he gave a very strong rebuttal that changed my views on it.
Pascal's wager, as you may know, works on the basis that if there is a god and you don't believe in him, you have more to lose than if there isn't a god, but you believe in him anyway (at least that's it in a nutshell).
However the question remains... what is the right god to believe in? The Abrahamic god? Yawheh, Jehovah, Allah? The Hindu gods? Shiva, Ram, Krishna? The Buddha?
There are multiple revelations and many different gods. I cannot say I have nothing to lose by believing in one of these, as at the same time I would be rejecting the others, and accruing the possiblity that one of these others is the right one and I have just damned myself. As JL. Makie wrote, J. L. Mackie notes that "the church within which alone salvation is to be found is not necessarily the Church of Rome, but perhaps that of the Anabaptists or the Mormons or the Muslim Sunnis or the worshipers of Kali or of Odin." This is called the Argument from Inconsistent Revelations, you can read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_in...
Moreover, the famous French philosphe Voltaire cricized Pascal's wager, on the argument that it fails to rely on proof, relying on abstract lines of thinking and not empircial proof or evidence. He went on to say, "the interest I have to believe a thing is no proof that such a thing exists." Him and his associates argue that revelations and holy books can be put to the test by comparing them against scientific and empirical knowledge. See La Philosophie, Tome 2 (La Connaissance), Denis Huisman, André Vergez, Marabout 1994, pp.462-63 for more about this argument.
Also, there is a third argument, the argument against inauthentic belief. Essentially it states that belief in a god of your choice based on this wager would not be based on complete acceptance and unshakable belief in your divinity, but rather a sort of defensive and cautious belief, ie. inauthentic. Richard Carrier writes in his book, The End of Pascal's Wager,
"Suppose there is a god who is watching us and choosing which souls of the deceased to bring to heaven, and this god really does want only the morally good to populate heaven. He will probably select from only those who made a significant and responsible effort to discover the truth...Therefore, only such people can be sufficiently moral and trustworthy to deserve a place in heaven — unless God wishes to fill heaven with the morally lazy, irresponsible, or untrustworthy." More on this subject can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal 's_Wager#Argument_from_inconsi stent_revelations
That being said, I have no problems with people who do believe in god. However these examples and links I have provided are reasons why I don't accept Pascal's Wager as something that justifies the belief in a god.
Christians do not base their belief on Pascal's Wager - it isn't a starting point for christian belief (you're right that it still have to deal with the "which god" issue), but Pascal's Wager in itself is still "Irrefutable" although it certainly would be heavily criticized, as your example of Voltaire's cricism of Pascal's wager "on the argument that it fails to rely on proof". I get Voltaire's point, but he wasn't hitting the right target, as Pascal's Wager is not a mathematical statement that you can't really claim "it fails to rely on proof" any more than claiming the 0.0000000000001 is equal to nothing.

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#39 Feb 4, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
Christians do not base their belief on Pascal's Wager - it isn't a starting point for christian belief (you're right that it still have to deal with the "which god" issue), but Pascal's Wager in itself is still "Irrefutable" although it certainly would be heavily criticized, as your example of Voltaire's cricism of Pascal's wager "on the argument that it fails to rely on proof". I get Voltaire's point, but he wasn't hitting the right target, as Pascal's Wager is not a mathematical statement that you can't really claim "it fails to rely on proof" any more than claiming the 0.0000000000001 is equal to nothing.
I should probably say "Pascal's Wager IS simply a mathematical statement that you can't really claim "it fails to rely on proof" any more than claiming the 0.0000000000001 is equal to nothing."

“M.A....Rise”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#40 Feb 4, 2013
Latifah wrote:
<quoted text>
What sins did you commit that compelled you to leave Holy Islam in shame?
Hes not muslim.....I can expose him so easily if hes ready for a challenge

those sick guys are hindus

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#41 Feb 4, 2013
Egyptian_lad wrote:
<quoted text>
Hes not muslim.....I can expose him so easily if hes ready for a challenge ...
Tom, why would someone on Topix pretend that they're not who they claim to be?
george whyte

London, UK

#42 Feb 4, 2013
Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2013.02.03 (Kirkuk, Iraq)- Three dozen innocents are slaughtered by a suicide bombing followed by a grenade and shooting assault along a city street.
2013.02.02 (Miyanishin, Afghanistan)- Two young children are among a family of five exterminated by a roadside bomb.
2013.02.02 (Sarai Nawrang, Pakistan)- Women and children are among the casualties of a brutal Fedayeen attack that included a suicide bombing in a family home.
2013.02.01 (Pattani, Thailand)- Three are killed when Islamic 'separatists' spray a group of farmers with machine-gun fire.
2013.02.01 (Lakai Sar, Pakistan)- Lashkar-e-Islam terrorists assault a village and kill eleven defenders.
2013.02.01 (Hangu, Pakistan)- A Fedayeen suicide bomber slaughters over two dozen worshippers outside a Shia mosque.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Islam Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Islam Will Conquer Italy and the Entire West (Sep '10) 4 min Cyprus is Greek 508,648
Sunni GoFundMe Question. 5 min Bob Zanotti 4
News All around the city, New Yorkers are protesting... 1 hr Well Well 27
News Islam shares long tradition in Toledo area (Jun '16) 3 hr dcool 387
DID MOHAMMED HAD A MALE LOVER? evidence here (Sep '07) 4 hr SATAN ALLAH LUCIFER 101
Illiterate Mohamad COPIED Greek MYTHology RIDIN... 4 hr SATAN ALLAH LUCIFER 27
News Shah Jahan Mosque open day gives residents a ch... 4 hr Dawn of Reality 3
More from around the web