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“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

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#251
Feb 12, 2013
 

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abba wrote:
<quoted text>i think ur asexual an so is the rest of ur kafir scum.
Ah, you poor abba! Did I hit a sore spot? As in your islamic scripture failing even the most basic of modern knowledge?

Must be hard, growing up and being told you are part of a superior group of people, and then go out in the real world and find you are in reality a bottom feeder.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

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#252
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Saladeen wrote:
<quoted text>
however what you atheists never understand is that God the Creator isnt part of this creation.
I repeat myself, but who cares:
If you are willing to accept your god can just "exist" and be outside of "creation", you have removed your OWN objections to the concept that the universe just "exists" and has had to be "created". In other words, you no longer need your god hypothesis as an explanation!

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

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#253
Feb 12, 2013
 
Whisgean Zoda wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm betting ol' Darwin is still rolling over in his grave wishing to hell he'd never even thought of the term "primordeal soup", let alone let the musing slip into a private letter that wasn't meant to be a serious scientific theory.
I think Darwin is rolling over because people assign terms to him that he never uttered. "Primordeal soup" originates with Alexander Oparin. Darwin mentioned "warm little pond".
Whisgean Zoda wrote:
<quoted text>
The simple fact is, the origin of life is STILL one of science's greatest axioms and abiogenesis is as yet, a totally unproven theory.
A theory cannot be totally unproven (apart from the fact that one never can literally prove anything other than in mathematics). Abiogenesis as a process is still poorly understood, and there are multiple hypotheses (hypothesis =/ theory). None are, however, as crazy as some supreme being who says "There you go! Exist!".

“Seriously guys...”

Since: May 12

The 'Shwa

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#254
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I repeat myself, but who cares:
If you are willing to accept your god can just "exist" and be outside of "creation", you have removed your OWN objections to the concept that the universe just "exists" and has had to be "created". In other words, you no longer need your god hypothesis as an explanation!
Maybe not, but atheists just use a variation of the God theme, in effect "confirming" that something/one can indeed exist outside of Creation. Personally, I see the same leap of faith at that point, just in different directions.
See, too may laymen are under the impression that science sets out to "prove" stuff. It doesn't. The job of science is to figure out the best possible NATURAL explanation for stuff, even if that involves inventing new math and dimensions to make the calculations work.
Conclusivley proving something in the process is just a bonus.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

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#255
Feb 12, 2013
 
Whisgean Zoda wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe not, but atheists just use a variation of the God theme, in effect "confirming" that something/one can indeed exist outside of Creation. Personally, I see the same leap of faith at that point, just in different directions.
What "variation" would that be?
Ex Muslim

Vanderhoof, Canada

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#256
Feb 12, 2013
 
Whisgean Zoda wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that there is a right pretty explanation and a complete load of crap. There is absolutely nothing in the chemico-physical world that even remotely resembles the processes required for sequencing.
Never mind the fact the process would have to have taken place twice under completely different conditions.
I'm betting ol' Darwin is still rolling over in his grave wishing to hell he'd never even thought of the term "primordeal soup", let alone let the musing slip into a private letter that wasn't meant to be a serious scientific theory.
The simple fact is, the origin of life is STILL one of science's greatest axioms and abiogenesis is as yet, a totally unproven theory.
While abiogenesis is still a work in progress, these things I have stated still stand. Of course, not everything is quite yet know yet, for example the origin of information storage with nucleic acid molecule.
There are numerous competing theories, but there is solid science between most of them, and they are not all contradictory. You can't truly dismiss the post as a "load of crap", but you can attack certain aspects of the theory, which I would welcome.
Life started from chemical origins, there is no doubt about that. While a lot of work has been done to establish probable stages in the process, it is still a work in progress. The primordial soup theory (proposed by Oparin and Haldane) is the one which has been most tested experimentally, which is why it is also widely taught, but of course not without its shortcomings. A lot of other approaches, like "metabolism-first" also have their own strengths.
Rabbeen Al Jihad

Salt Lake City, UT

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#257
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Mahmood wrote:
<quoted text>
Salaam Sister Rabbeen,
Assuming that there is some higher aka God, on what evidence can you claim, that the higher power has anything to do with your brand organized religion?
Looking forward to your response.
Salaamz Mahmood & Salutations.Firstly,when one assumes , He makes an ASS ( out of )U & ME!LOL! Levity my friend is the great equalizer. To the point. Every man made religion can be traced thru its own red flags of ownership.Catholicism=owned and operated by the Pope and vatican.Sectarianist christianity=owned and operated by various Pastors and priests.Evangelicals=owned and operated by television ministers.Mormonism=owned and operated by a president and 12 apostles,etc,etc. Their take on the Almighty ranges from a single being of three parts,to a god that was once a man!LOL! Holy-Islaam thru ALLAH(pbuh) refutes these paper tigers with interesting facts.ALLAH is a single Being barely comprehendable to us in our fallen state.Holy-Islaam has no solid central core for business purposes,or issueing of holy edicts.We as muslims must first be as single believers before we join the world wide Ummah.and these are but Iceing on the cake.The Cake is much more difficult to consume.A simple yet pointed explaination of my own opinion. Cheerz
george whyte

Market Rasen, UK

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#258
Feb 12, 2013
 
Ex Muslim wrote:
<quoted text>
My goodness. Water, wood, fire, metal, and earth are not elements. You are espousing ideas that date back to Aristotle and Muhammad, further showing how unscientific and unknowledgable you are.
If your God exists, and his Qur'an is his Truth, then we should examine if his claims of how the universe and nature were created is true. We may not be able to discern God, but we can discern if his Word in the Qur'an is true.
And as I've shown above, it fails miserably.
Mountains are not "pegs" placed by God on the Earth. They were formed over millions of years of plate tectonic activity that folded and raised the continental shelves.
Stars are not missiles designed to drive away Jinn/Devils. They are balls of plasma powered by nuclear fusion, and have nothing to do with supernatural and mythical creatures.
Man was not created from Adam and Eve, but over million of years of evolution.
The Earth was not created in a few days, but over the process of hundreds of millions of years.
The list continues on and on.
good posat
UK Soldier

Nottingham, UK

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#259
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Egyptian_lad wrote:
<quoted text> U want a proof for ALLAH
read holy koran and see how science agrees with most claims of ALLAH almighty
ALLAH is the real creator....ALLAH is our true God
That is still not proof...it is a book which is based on opinion and rules...it has no definitive proof at all.
abba

Mesquite, NV

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#260
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, you poor abba! Did I hit a sore spot? As in your islamic scripture failing even the most basic of modern knowledge?
Must be hard, growing up and being told you are part of a superior group of people, and then go out in the real world and find you are in reality a bottom feeder.
sorry retarded, islam is supream over u kafirs.
Saladeen

Bristol, UK

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#261
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I repeat myself, but who cares:
If you are willing to accept your god can just "exist" and be outside of "creation", you have removed your OWN objections to the concept that the universe just "exists" and has had to be "created". In other words, you no longer need your god hypothesis as an explanation!
I never made the claim that God just exist....thats how you understood it.

I said everithing in the creation must came from something and therefore has a beginning.....however
God is not part of the creation and He exist without beginning....He doesn't just exist...He always existed but that's not something you can claim about the universe becouse it is proven that the universe had beginning "Big Bang"

They said at the beginning there was "Primal Nebula" and then there was "secondary seperation" which started to form the universe and later life.

...I don't deny any of these facts but the question is who WHO CREATED THE NEBULA before the separation?

...becouse remember that in the science within the creation nothing comes from nothing....even God didn't came from nothing...at least He always existed!
Mahmood

Mississauga, Canada

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#262
Feb 12, 2013
 
Saladeen wrote:
<quoted text>
there are some elements such as water, wood, fire, metal, earth...then there are senses such as sight, hearing, smell, touch and taste.... all of these are part of the creation including time space and even science.......however what you atheists never understand is that God the Creator isnt part of this creation.
this all is something you will be never able to understand through science.
you say that we should only believe in somthing that we see...isnt it?
...Well thanks to Quran I am able to see something you dont see...I see the sign of God every where I look.
Subhanallah!!!! Allah exist!!!!
Jazakallah, what a wonderful explanation. Now tell me, that assuming "god" exists, why do you think he has any connection with your brand of organized religion? Trust me, I am on the verge in believing that there is a higher power.
Mahmood

Mississauga, Canada

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#263
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Rabbeen Al Jihad wrote:
<quoted text>Salaamz Mahmood & Salutations.Firstly,when one assumes , He makes an ASS ( out of )U & ME!LOL! Levity my friend is the great equalizer. To the point. Every man made religion can be traced thru its own red flags of ownership.Catholicism=owned and operated by the Pope and vatican.Sectarianist christianity=owned and operated by various Pastors and priests.Evangelicals=owned and operated by television ministers.Mormonism=owned and operated by a president and 12 apostles,etc,etc. Their take on the Almighty ranges from a single being of three parts,to a god that was once a man!LOL! Holy-Islaam thru ALLAH(pbuh) refutes these paper tigers with interesting facts.ALLAH is a single Being barely comprehendable to us in our fallen state.Holy-Islaam has no solid central core for business purposes,or issueing of holy edicts.We as muslims must first be as single believers before we join the world wide Ummah.and these are but Iceing on the cake.The Cake is much more difficult to consume.A simple yet pointed explaination of my own opinion. Cheerz
My dear sister Rabbeen,

I am afraid that this does not answer my question. I need irrefutable evidence as to why you'd think that this higher power has anything to do with your brand of organized religion. We both agree about Xtanity and all the other doctrines you'v quoted, so lets stick to Islam. Why do you think that this deity that you are referring to, has anything to do with Islam?

Since: Apr 11

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#264
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Catechism of the Catholic Church:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX....

Since: Apr 11

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#265
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Catechism of the Catholic Church:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX....

I. Freedom and Responsibility

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will one shapes one's own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. the choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28

1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.

1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.

1736 Every act directly willed is imputable to its author:

Thus the Lord asked Eve after the sin in the garden: "What is this that you have done?"29 He asked Cain the same question.30 The prophet Nathan questioned David in the same way after he committed adultery with the wife of Uriah and had him murdered.31
An action can be indirectly voluntary when it results from negligence regarding something one should have known or done: for example, an accident arising from ignorance of traffic laws.

1737 An effect can be tolerated without being willed by its agent; for instance, a mother's exhaustion from tending her sick child. A bad effect is not imputable if it was not willed either as an end or as a means of an action, e.g., a death a person incurs in aiding someone in danger. For a bad effect to be imputable it must be foreseeable and the agent must have the possibility of avoiding it, as in the case of manslaughter caused by a drunken driver.

1738 Freedom is exercised in relationships between human beings. Every human person, created in the image of God, has the natural right to be recognized as a free and responsible being. All owe to each other this duty of respect. the right to the exercise of freedom, especially in moral and religious matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of the human person. This right must be recognized and protected by civil authority within the limits of the common good and public order.32
Minz

Sri Lanka

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#266
Feb 12, 2013
 

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you renounced Islam?
Okay bad for you and good for shaitan

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

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#267
Feb 12, 2013
 
Saladeen wrote:
<quoted text>
I never made the claim that God just exist....thats how you understood it.
"at least He always existed" (your own words, a little further down). That's the same as claiming he just exists.
Saladeen wrote:
<quoted text>
I said everithing in the creation must came from something and therefore has a beginning.....however
Yes, you defined "creation" such as to allow your god to be exempt from creation. If you accept that, you have no argument to claim the universe must be part of "creation" other than a circular argumentation that allows your god to be exempt from creation.
Saladeen wrote:
<quoted text>
God is not part of the creation and He exist without beginning....He doesn't just exist...He always existed but that's not something you can claim about the universe becouse it is proven that the universe had beginning "Big Bang"
Ah, but what was *before* the Big Bang? The universe as we see it now didn't come from "nothing"! And it isn't as simplistic as you may have read. This blogpost from an astronomer will perhaps help you a little bit:
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2012/...
The every-day simplifications of rather complex phenomena is rather common, so I do not blame you for holding this oversimplified idea of "something coming from nothing".
Saladeen wrote:
<quoted text>
They said at the beginning there was "Primal Nebula" and then there was "secondary seperation" which started to form the universe and later life.
...I don't deny any of these facts but the question is who WHO CREATED THE NEBULA before the separation?
a) you already accepted something can "exist" outside of "creation". Why should that not be the "nebula"?

b) Why must it be a sentient being (remember, you use the word "who", clearly indicating a sentient being). You do not need a sentient being to "create" anything. The universe is perfectly capable, without any input from others to create and destroy matter; it is, in fact, an inherent property of matter.
Saladeen wrote:
<quoted text>
...becouse remember that in the science within the creation nothing comes from nothing....even God didn't came from nothing...at least He always existed!
Which, again, is putting different demands on your god than on anything else, with no other reasoning than "that's just the way it is".
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#268
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Shamma wrote:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX....
That God damn Church has nothing real but only catechism, which is basically a collection of Fatwas (opinions) of ignorant fools.
Rabbeen Al Jihad

Salt Lake City, UT

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#269
Feb 13, 2013
 

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bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
That God damn Church has nothing real but only catechism, which is basically a collection of Fatwas (opinions) of ignorant fools.
Salaamz O venerable scholar and esteemed servant of ALLAH. Salutations. Glad to run into you here on this most wondrous thread.I detect a note of sarcasm in your reply to the presence of catholicizm here LOL! And since you responded to the presentation of catehism in such a way , let me ask this.Could it be possible (albeit far fetch'D) that the ancient and somewhat fossilized catholic church,specifically catechizm,is an offshoot of a polluted and basterdized version of islam? After all mimicry is a high form of flattery right? LOL! Ive noticed an odd trend happening here in the southern states.Many pompous priests and maniacle ministers are "all-of-a-sudden-Imams! " and I get the uneasy feeling that its all about money. Your thoughts O knowledgeable one. CheerZ

“Freedom, NOT islam.”

Since: Feb 11

Birmingham UK

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#270
Feb 13, 2013
 

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abba wrote:
<quoted text>no need 4 jihad stupad scum kafir. we r alraedy takng over uk an west.patiance jules. mabe i will make u studant of mine later.ill taech u some maners 2.an yes we will lay down law.it is called sharia an juss need a little more patance old man.
Alright gay boy, lick my boots clean and clear off to the imam.
And tell the other retards in the mosque that the jihad is coming, and you paki scum wiull be flattened by the glorious army of the united kuffar, and blinded by the light from our unquestionable truth.

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