Students visit mosque, get Quran

Students visit mosque, get Quran

There are 497 comments on the www.jihadwatch.org story from Sep 18, 2013, titled Students visit mosque, get Quran. In it, www.jihadwatch.org reports that:

A Tennessee high school has decided to revise its field trip policy after a group of freshmen were taken to an Islamic mosque where they were given copies of the Koran and while a student who opted out of the trip was given a worksheet that alleged Muslims treated their conquered people better than the United States treated minorities ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.jihadwatch.org.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#400 Sep 30, 2013
danetoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post Trisha ... wish you would post a bit more "here and there" ...:)
I thank you, Danetoo.
:)
I wish I could also!:( Besides other things in my life atm, topix is especially slow and frustrating to maneuver lately.

btw..I don't see you posting much on the islam forum, miss your postings here.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#401 Sep 30, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignorant Fool,
Mahmood is an ex-Muslim. He writes against Islama nd Qur'aan, Dunce!
You should be on his side.
He is quite capable of running down the unholy Bible and the absurd Christian God.
He is one intelligent man and always polite, unlike you.

“Tell it as it is.”

Since: Jun 12

Australia

#402 Sep 30, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignorant Fool,
Mahmood is an ex-Muslim. He writes against Islama nd Qur'aan, Dunce!
You should be on his side.
He is quite capable of running down the unholy Bible and the absurd Christian God.
Ignorant fool?

Considering that in our last exchange over
No contradictions in the koran
No compulsion in religion
Islam is a religion of peace
You actually proved my case for me whilst trying to do exactly the opposite.

For you to abuse someone as you did is only proving your inability to comprehend reality.
atheist

Colnbrook, UK

#403 Sep 30, 2013
Sunnis say Shias are apostates, & Shias say Sunnis are heretics.
So, WHO is correct?

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#404 Sep 30, 2013
atheist wrote:
Sunnis say Shias are apostates, & Shias say Sunnis are heretics.
So, WHO is correct?
Exactly.

For us who know Islam is wrong, evil, false, etc, their internal conflict only continues to prove Islam is false.

“Tell it as it is.”

Since: Jun 12

Australia

#405 Sep 30, 2013
atheist wrote:
Sunnis say Shias are apostates, & Shias say Sunnis are heretics.
So, WHO is correct?
Neither. Nor are any of the other 73 sects.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#406 Sep 30, 2013
Trisha wrote:
He is one intelligent man and always polite, unlike you.
May be.

Anyway, you are neither polite nor intelligent.

You are one-liner bigot and you know that well!
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#407 Sep 30, 2013
Old Pom wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignorant fool?
Considering that in our last exchange over
No contradictions in the koran
No compulsion in religion
Islam is a religion of peace
You actually proved my case for me whilst trying to do exactly the opposite.
For you to abuse someone as you did is only proving your inability to comprehend reality.
Of course, the poster is an ignorant fool! Why can't a poster read and understand another poster?

Anyway, you have not really brought up any contradiction. You have to show me something like this:

According to the Mark, Matthew and Luke, Simon carried the cross.

According to John, Jesus carried the cross.

This is an example of an extreme contradiction in the New Testament.

Adam 36

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#408 Oct 1, 2013
Gray wrote:
<quoted text>
“The first Palestinian suicide bombing occurred in 1994, 40 days after the massacre by the Brooklyn native Baruch Goldstein of 29 praying Muslims at the Al Ibrahim Mosque in Hebron.”
“There was not a single act of Arab terrorism against Americans before 1968, when the U.S. became the chief supplier of military equipment and economic aid to Israel.”
"Every time anyone says that Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I can't help but think that before Israel, we had no enemies in the Middle East."-- John Sheehan,
I spent 10 - 11 months in the Islamic world......how about your "first hand experience"
I await your childish, simple minded insult since a documented and articulate rebuttal is beyond you and your cult of scripted & ignorant Muslim haters.
You want documented evidence? Enjoy...

You seem to have a problem with the truth...The first suicide attack was in 1989.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestin...

The US was not the major supplier to Israel until the Arab world tilted to the USSR and used their weaponry to attack Israel. I have no idea WTF your claim is about armaments but the Arabs made the decision to acquire weapons and USE them. And you blame the US for the Muslim world's failures. Arabs never take responsibility for their own actions and I suspect neither will you.

((("Every time anyone says that Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I can't help but think that before Israel, we had no enemies in the Middle East."-- John Sheehan)))

You do realize this is anti-semitic or do you?

BTW, Who killed US Ambassador Cleo Noel?

Take all the time you need

Since: Sep 09

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#410 Oct 1, 2013
The Berlin Olympic Games
Bibliophile

Lemont Furnace, PA

#411 Oct 1, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
For hate, anger, wrath and vengeance one should read the chapters Joshua, Numbers, Judges, etc., which were truly written by the Devil.
And in order to read the Devil's masterpiece, on should read Revelation, the drug store that has nothing redeeming.
Nothing can be more Satanic than Revelation, which shows a horrible Jesus, full of hate, wrath, anger and vengeance.
The Devil, who wrote that should be given the Booker's Prize.
BMZ,

I am with you on that. The old testament and even Revelation can be very brutal and should be reason why humanity should take a second look at the religions of Abraham. I can not criticize Islam and be a hypocrite and not objectively criticize the religion I was raised with. That is why I said in an earlier post that Christians, Jews and Muslims alike deserve a better god.

Just look at the book of Joshua for example, which both Christians and Jews follow. It is not just killing in self-defense but premeditated murder against the residents of Jericho. Joshua deserves no less criticism than Mohammad for invading and murdering an innocent tribe/town. Realistically Joshua might even deserve more criticism than Mohammad - I know that might sound strange coming from me - but the reason why is that Joshua set the PRECEDENT to murder in the name of Abraham's god. Mohammad came much later and what type of example could he find in Joshua?

Whether this was fable or actually happened, it does not behoove the Jewish people to revere this hateful and heinous act in the name of Abraham's god. Was Yahweh a liar? Why did he tell Abraham that he did not require the sacrifice of a human and spared the life of Abraham's son but only to have the Jews to murder all of the innocent women and children of Jericho? The women and children did not pose any threat to Joshua and his gang of murderers. Was this not a human sacrifice to Abraham's god? How disgusting!

And this horrific act of Joshua does not set a good example for the Jewish posterity. Think of it, it was the world's very first act of ANTI-GENTILISM and ultra religious Jews - hopefully a small minority of Jews - but at least some of them, see it as okay because it was their god's will.

Whether yahweh or allah or any other god likes it or not, the laws of the universe requires that "what goes around, comes around" and people attract what they focus on, good or bad. It may take time, but it eventually comes full circle. Why were the Jews so horrifically treated by Hitler in the Holocaust and where was their yahweh to save them? I believe it is because many of the Jews held gentiles in contempt with disparaging and dehumanizing names like "goyim". Not to mention how they treated gentiles in the old testament.
And what did the universe ultimately give back to them? The same persecution that they dished out. An eye for an eye will make the world go blind.

I am happy to see that many younger Jews do not believe in this insidious doctrine and are even intermarrying these days. Catholics and Protestants are crossing religious lines now with each other, they can do it with non-Christians also. Let us transcend all of these barriers. Good riddens to religious bigotry from all religions!
nutjobs here

Israel

#412 Oct 1, 2013
Bibliophile wrote:
<quoted text>
BMZ,
I am with you on that. The old testament and even Revelation can be very brutal and should be reason why humanity should take a second look at the religions of Abraham. I can not criticize Islam and be a hypocrite and not objectively criticize the religion I was raised with. That is why I said in an earlier post that Christians, Jews and Muslims alike deserve a better god.
Just look at the book of Joshua for example, which both Christians and Jews follow. It is not just killing in self-defense but premeditated murder against the residents of Jericho. Joshua deserves no less criticism than Mohammad for invading and murdering an innocent tribe/town. Realistically Joshua might even deserve more criticism than Mohammad - I know that might sound strange coming from me - but the reason why is that Joshua set the PRECEDENT to murder in the name of Abraham's god. Mohammad came much later and what type of example could he find in Joshua?
Whether this was fable or actually happened, it does not behoove the Jewish people to revere this hateful and heinous act in the name of Abraham's god. Was Yahweh a liar? Why did he tell Abraham that he did not require the sacrifice of a human and spared the life of Abraham's son but only to have the Jews to murder all of the innocent women and children of Jericho? The women and children did not pose any threat to Joshua and his gang of murderers. Was this not a human sacrifice to Abraham's god? How disgusting!
And this horrific act of Joshua does not set a good example for the Jewish posterity. Think of it, it was the world's very first act of ANTI-GENTILISM and ultra religious Jews - hopefully a small minority of Jews - but at least some of them, see it as okay because it was their god's will.
Whether yahweh or allah or any other god likes it or not, the laws of the universe requires that "what goes around, comes around" and people attract what they focus on, good or bad. It may take time, but it eventually comes full circle. Why were the Jews so horrifically treated by Hitler in the Holocaust and where was their yahweh to save them? I believe it is because many of the Jews held gentiles in contempt with disparaging and dehumanizing names like "goyim". Not to mention how they treated gentiles in the old testament.
And what did the universe ultimately give back to them? The same persecution that they dished out. An eye for an eye will make the world go blind.
I am happy to see that many younger Jews do not believe in this insidious doctrine and are even intermarrying these days. Catholics and Protestants are crossing religious lines now with each other, they can do it with non-Christians also. Let us transcend all of these barriers. Good riddens to religious bigotry from all religions!
Wondering if you are Christian or Jewish. You seem to only target Jews in this post.

Firstly Modern Western antisemitism stems from Christianity. At some point in history Christians began to target Jews. IMO (which is agreed upon by many historians) this was because they needed to attack Judaism to claim Christianity as the right religion.

Secondly I am not sure why people especially here continuously portray the word 'goyim' as a derogatory term. This is a pure lie and the translation is nation. Abraham was told that his people would become "Goy Gadol" a great nation. So the Bible also speaks as Jews being part of the goyim i.e. nations of the world.

If you were Jewish you should know this. I studied this passage before my 10th birthday.

Its typical for people to blame the Jews for being targeted instead of blaming those who carried out the acts. I suppose its the fault of the Jews that you can't travel in most countries of the world being openly Jewish. This includes much of the Western World.

I am not a believer and I agree on the brutality in the Bible.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#413 Oct 1, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
May be.
Anyway, you are neither polite nor intelligent.
You are one-liner bigot and you know that well!
Silly little boy, you actually believe I care what your warped mind attempts to think!

lol!!
Bibliophile

Lemont Furnace, PA

#414 Oct 1, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you again, B
Muhammad simply reasoned with men and presented Qur'aan. He did not prophesy and showed no miracles.
Imagine if he had showed miracles and still failed to get recognized then that would have been a problem similar to that of Jesus, who despite showing loads of miracles, was not recognized by his own people.
We hear a lot about the biblical prophets making prophesies but we see none coming true within their own life time. Jesus also said that he would come within the life time of all who stood and watched him but he never came back.
Muhammad never used the word Prophet for himself. Qur'aan calls him Rasul, which means Messenger of God. That is why we call him Rasul Allah. We use the English word Prophet for the sake of discussions.
The actual words are in Qur'aan. Hadith like the gospels is full of unsubstantiated tales. Muhammad never boasted that he was the greatest prophet. He was told to follow Abraham.
Here is a translation of the verse 46:9 and through Qur'aan he is instructed to say:
"Say:“I am not the first of [God’s] apostles; and [like all of them,] I do not know what will be done with me or with you: for I am nothing but a plain warner.”
Was this the verse you were talking about?
BMZ,

I understand about the translation from "messenger" in Arabic to "prophet" in English loosing some of its meaning, but where was the proof that he actually was sent by God? Just because he was steadfast in his proclamations and eventually amassed much power through wisdom, murder and deceit, it does not mean he was an actual prophet or messenger from God.

The Hadiths may not be perfect but they have to have at least some historical accuracy especially the parts, which generally correlate with other writings. Just like in the gospels, if all four of them correlate on a particular action of Jesus, it is at least more likely that it happened, than if only one gospel said it but the others did not or even gave a different account.

In many strict Muslim countries today, the Hadiths are regarded as very sacred and true. What makes the Hadiths more reliable to me about the life and conduct of Mohammad, is that it was written by fellow Muslims, it was not even an account by scholars in the Byzantine empire who were Christian. They understandably could have been biased. So what do we have to be the best source of character and conduct of Mohammad? It would be the Hadiths, written by fellow Muslims, who had no reason to make Mohammad look bad. Moreover, back then political correctness did not exist so there was no reservation by the authors to write about all of the actions by Mohammad, egregious or not.
It is revealed how Mohammad sent out his goons to kill his critics. What type of genuine and sincere messenger from God needs to have his critics killed? What did Mohammad's critics see in him that Mohammad did not want revealed?
You mentioned earlier that Mohammad reasoned and presented the Koran to people. That is fine, but to have to kill anyone because they did not believe what someone else' teachings were, then that person certainly is not a real messenger from a true loving merciful God. Any god worth his salt that needs a mere mortal to do his killing for him is a fairy tale. Why could not God just will the people to act the way he wanted them to act? Why did he need Mohammad to kill for him? Was he not powerful enough to do it himself? Who would want to believe in such a vicious and weak god?
Regarding the Koran, I do not read Arabic "the language of allah" but from my understanding from those who do, there are many contradictions from writings in the Koran. If there is even one minor contradiction, then it could not have been written by God. Or at least not a perfect god.

Where was Mohammad's proof that he was an actual messenger of God?
Bibliophile

Lemont Furnace, PA

#415 Oct 1, 2013
nutjobs here wrote:
<quoted text>
Wondering if you are Christian or Jewish. You seem to only target Jews in this post.
Firstly Modern Western antisemitism stems from Christianity. At some point in history Christians began to target Jews. IMO (which is agreed upon by many historians) this was because they needed to attack Judaism to claim Christianity as the right religion.
Secondly I am not sure why people especially here continuously portray the word 'goyim' as a derogatory term. This is a pure lie and the translation is nation. Abraham was told that his people would become "Goy Gadol" a great nation. So the Bible also speaks as Jews being part of the goyim i.e. nations of the world.
If you were Jewish you should know this. I studied this passage before my 10th birthday.
Its typical for people to blame the Jews for being targeted instead of blaming those who carried out the acts. I suppose its the fault of the Jews that you can't travel in most countries of the world being openly Jewish. This includes much of the Western World.
I am not a believer and I agree on the brutality in the Bible.
Hi Nutjobs,

Christians certainly deserve criticism too and my post was to comment on the old testament and book of revelations, which BMZ was observing.

The Jewish community in Christian Europe suffered oppression from many Christians due to the concept of the Jews having killed Jesus, whether it is factual or not, the concept of one group having killed another group's god, is going to cause undesirable tension. Regrettably many Jews have suffered oppression over the centuries for this and it should be condemned.

"Goy Gadol" may very well be regarded as only in a positive context put the general term "goyim" has been used many times by many - certainly not all but many Jews - in a condescending context. For example "Goyim" has been used synonymously with "cattle". The Talmud does not seem to be too endearing regarding goyim.

You mentioned earlier modern western anti-semitism earlier and that should be condemned. But what about anti-gentilism in its disgusting display in the book of Joshua? This happened long before modern western anti-semitism. It was a much earlier precedent. And the Jews according to the bible, were persecuted by gentiles in Egypt. Maybe both biblical accounts did happen or maybe they did not and are just fiction. The point is that they are imbued on the Jews collective memory or consciousness via the old testament. This engenders a harmful "us versus them" mentality.

Whether it is:
Jew/Gentile
Muslim/Kaffir
Greek/Non-Greek
Roman/Barbarian
Christian/un born again

These are all "us versus them" mentalities.

The Roman and Greek empires are gone but the Abrahamic religions are still hear. What type of world god pits part of his creation against another part?

Most of my posts to BMZ have been comments on Islam but I say for all 3 major Abrahamic faiths of Christianity, Judaism and Islam that a new god is needed. Each of the three faiths have very good points but they also have some very bad points as demonstrated through history and in doctrine.

Modern archaeologists and other scholars, including in Israel, strongly doubt the past existence of an Abraham and possibly even a Moses.

If there was no Abraham, there was no conversation with a god. What does this have to say about the 3 Abrahamic faiths?

Let us transcend our religious barriers and "us versus them" mentalities!

“Tell it as it is.”

Since: Jun 12

Australia

#416 Oct 2, 2013
Bibliophile wrote:
<quoted text>
BMZ,
I understand about the translation from "messenger" in Arabic to "prophet" in English loosing some of its meaning, but where was the proof that he actually was sent by God? Just because he was steadfast in his proclamations and eventually amassed much power through wisdom, murder and deceit, it does not mean he was an actual prophet or messenger from God.
The Hadiths may not be perfect but they have to have at least some historical accuracy especially the parts, which generally correlate with other writings. Just like in the gospels, if all four of them correlate on a particular action of Jesus, it is at least more likely that it happened, than if only one gospel said it but the others did not or even gave a different account.
In many strict Muslim countries today, the Hadiths are regarded as very sacred and true. What makes the Hadiths more reliable to me about the life and conduct of Mohammad, is that it was written by fellow Muslims, it was not even an account by scholars in the Byzantine empire who were Christian. They understandably could have been biased. So what do we have to be the best source of character and conduct of Mohammad? It would be the Hadiths, written by fellow Muslims, who had no reason to make Mohammad look bad. Moreover, back then political correctness did not exist so there was no reservation by the authors to write about all of the actions by Mohammad, egregious or not.
It is revealed how Mohammad sent out his goons to kill his critics. What type of genuine and sincere messenger from God needs to have his critics killed? What did Mohammad's critics see in him that Mohammad did not want revealed?
You mentioned earlier that Mohammad reasoned and presented the Koran to people. That is fine, but to have to kill anyone because they did not believe what someone else' teachings were, then that person certainly is not a real messenger from a true loving merciful God. Any god worth his salt that needs a mere mortal to do his killing for him is a fairy tale. Why could not God just will the people to act the way he wanted them to act? Why did he need Mohammad to kill for him? Was he not powerful enough to do it himself? Who would want to believe in such a vicious and weak god?
Regarding the Koran, I do not read Arabic "the language of allah" but from my understanding from those who do, there are many contradictions from writings in the Koran. If there is even one minor contradiction, then it could not have been written by God. Or at least not a perfect god.
Where was Mohammad's proof that he was an actual messenger of God?
Are you insinuating that..
There are contradictions in the koran?
That mo ordered someone killed?
That there is compulsion in islam?

That is guaranteed to try bmz's patience, as s/he spent quite some effort on those subjects with me.
Even though it seemed proven, apparently I could not comprehend the complexities of the koran and misunderstood the writings.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#417 Oct 2, 2013
Bibliophile wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Nutjobs,
Christians certainly deserve criticism too and my post was to comment on the old testament and book of revelations, which BMZ was observing.
The Jewish community in Christian Europe suffered oppression from many Christians due to the concept of the Jews having killed Jesus, whether it is factual or not, the concept of one group having killed another group's god, is going to cause undesirable tension. Regrettably many Jews have suffered oppression over the centuries for this and it should be condemned.
"Goy Gadol" may very well be regarded as only in a positive context put the general term "goyim" has been used many times by many - certainly not all but many Jews - in a condescending context. For example "Goyim" has been used synonymously with "cattle". The Talmud does not seem to be too endearing regarding goyim.
You mentioned earlier modern western anti-semitism earlier and that should be condemned. But what about anti-gentilism in its disgusting display in the book of Joshua? This happened long before modern western anti-semitism. It was a much earlier precedent. And the Jews according to the bible, were persecuted by gentiles in Egypt. Maybe both biblical accounts did happen or maybe they did not and are just fiction. The point is that they are imbued on the Jews collective memory or consciousness via the old testament. This engenders a harmful "us versus them" mentality.
Whether it is:
Jew/Gentile
Muslim/Kaffir
Greek/Non-Greek
Roman/Barbarian
Christian/un born again
These are all "us versus them" mentalities.
The Roman and Greek empires are gone but the Abrahamic religions are still hear. What type of world god pits part of his creation against another part?
Most of my posts to BMZ have been comments on Islam but I say for all 3 major Abrahamic faiths of Christianity, Judaism and Islam that a new god is needed. Each of the three faiths have very good points but they also have some very bad points as demonstrated through history and in doctrine.
Modern archaeologists and other scholars, including in Israel, strongly doubt the past existence of an Abraham and possibly even a Moses.
If there was no Abraham, there was no conversation with a god. What does this have to say about the 3 Abrahamic faiths?
Let us transcend our religious barriers and "us versus them" mentalities!
Jesus is God!
http://www.whoisjesus.com/whois.html
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#418 Oct 2, 2013
Bibliophile wrote:
BMZ,

I am with you on that. The old testament and even Revelation can be very brutal and should be reason why humanity should take a second look at the religions of Abraham. I can not criticize Islam and be a hypocrite and not objectively criticize the religion I was raised with. That is why I said in an earlier post that Christians, Jews and Muslims alike deserve a better god.

Just look at the book of Joshua for example, which both Christians and Jews follow. It is not just killing in self-defense but premeditated murder against the residents of Jericho. Joshua deserves no less criticism than Mohammad for invading and murdering an innocent tribe/town. Realistically Joshua might even deserve more criticism than Mohammad - I know that might sound strange coming from me - but the reason why is that Joshua set the PRECEDENT to murder in the name of Abraham's god. Mohammad came much later and what type of example could he find in Joshua?
Whether this was fable or actually happened, it does not behoove the Jewish people to revere this hateful and heinous act in the name of Abraham's god.

Was Yahweh a liar? Why did he tell Abraham that he did not require the sacrifice of a human and spared the life of Abraham's son but only to have the Jews to murder all of the innocent women and children of Jericho? The women and children did not pose any threat to Joshua and his gang of murderers. Was this not a human sacrifice to Abraham's god? How disgusting!

And this horrific act of Joshua does not set a good example for the Jewish posterity. Think of it, it was the world's very first act of ANTI-GENTILISM and ultra religious Jews - hopefully a small minority of Jews - but at least some of them, see it as okay because it was their god's will.

Whether yahweh or allah or any other god likes it or not, the laws of the universe requires that "what goes around, comes around" and people attract what they focus on, good or bad. It may take time, but it eventually comes full circle. Why were the Jews so horrifically treated by Hitler in the Holocaust and where was their yahweh to save them? I believe it is because many of the Jews held gentiles in contempt with disparaging and dehumanizing names like "goyim". Not to mention how they treated gentiles in the old testament.

And what did the universe ultimately give back to them? The same persecution that they dished out. An eye for an eye will make the world go blind.

I am happy to see that many younger Jews do not believe in this insidious doctrine and are even intermarrying these days. Catholics and Protestants are crossing religious lines now with each other, they can do it with non-Christians also. Let us transcend all of these barriers. Good riddens to religious bigotry from all religions!
Thank you for being with me on the following:

"For hate, anger, wrath and vengeance one should read the chapters Joshua, Numbers, Judges, etc., which were truly written by the Devil.

And in order to read the Devil's masterpiece, on should read Revelation, the drug store that has nothing redeeming.

Nothing can be more Satanic than Revelation, which shows a horrible Jesus, full of hate, wrath, anger and vengeance.

The Devil, who wrote that should be given the Booker's Prize."

Indeed the Old Testament is a horror manual and Revelation shows Jesus as a man full of wrath, anger and vengeance. Revelation is an insult and disgrace to Jesus. There is nothing redeeming in in that good-for-nothing book.

Joshua not only is barbaric but even God appears to be more barbaric than Joshua in the texts and one can find as if God supervised all the brutal operations personally, evengoing to the extent that the sun was held till people were murdered and towns were utterly destroyed.

To be continued.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#419 Oct 2, 2013
Bibliophile wrote:
BMZ,

Just look at the book of Joshua for example, which both Christians and Jews follow. It is not just killing in self-defense but premeditated murder against the residents of Jericho. Joshua deserves no less criticism than Mohammad for invading and murdering an innocent tribe/town. Realistically Joshua might even deserve more criticism than Mohammad - I know that might sound strange coming from me - but the reason why is that Joshua set the PRECEDENT to murder in the name of Abraham's god. Mohammad came much later and what type of example could he find in Joshua?
Whether this was fable or actually happened, it does not behoove the Jewish people to revere this hateful and heinous act in the name of Abraham's god. Was Yahweh a liar? Why did he tell Abraham that he did not require the sacrifice of a human and spared the life of Abraham's son but only to have the Jews to murder all of the innocent women and children of Jericho? The women and children did not pose any threat to Joshua and his gang of murderers. Was this not a human sacrifice to Abraham's god? How disgusting!

And this horrific act of Joshua does not set a good example for the Jewish posterity. Think of it, it was the world's very first act of ANTI-GENTILISM and ultra religious Jews - hopefully a small minority of Jews - but at least some of them, see it as okay because it was their god's will.
Whether yahweh or allah or any other god likes it or not, the laws of the universe requires that "what goes around, comes around" and people attract what they focus on, good or bad. It may take time, but it eventually comes full circle. Why were the Jews so horrifically treated by Hitler in the Holocaust and where was their yahweh to save them? I believe it is because many of the Jews held gentiles in contempt with disparaging and dehumanizing names like "goyim". Not to mention how they treated gentiles in the old testament.

And what did the universe ultimately give back to them? The same persecution that they dished out. An eye for an eye will make the world go blind.
I am happy to see that many younger Jews do not believe in this insidious doctrine and are even intermarrying these days. Catholics and Protestants are crossing religious lines now with each other, they can do it with non-Christians also. Let us transcend all of these barriers. Good riddens to religious bigotry from all religions!
Continuation:

Hi, B

Joshua, Numbers, Judges and other chapters were not given or revealed by God Almighty. As far as we are concerned, these were stories written by tribal elders. To be honest and frank, there is nothing redeeming in it.

We believe that God gave Torah to Moses and all these books are not the Torah. Parts of the Torah can be found in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Imagine what effect Joshua would have on Israeli soldiers, who are reciting it everyday leaning by their Merkawa tanks? And imagine the state of mind of the Israeli leaders, who recite it everyday?

I don't believe that God Almighty did all that. God Almighty must have helped the Hebrews, if they were attacked ruthlessly by the barbarians but God Almighty would not have been so cruel to destroy innocent people and animals. That is no scripture. Some weird history written by unknown tribal men.

You would find nothing of that Joshua sort in Qur'aan.

God tested Abraham, who was an upright man and did not let him kill the boy. You are right on that.

To be frank and honest, the gospels generated a lot of hate against the Jews and the Church after becoming powerful, went berserk after the Jews, who were called Christ Killers. For killing of millions of Jews, please read the darkest history of Christianity.

And when the killings became massive, the Jews ran to Muslim states. If there were no Islam, the Jews would have become extinct at the hands of European Christians. We are their Saviors. ;)

Thanks for an interesting exchange.

To be continued

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#420 Oct 2, 2013
Bibliophile wrote:
I believe it is because many of the Jews held gentiles in contempt with disparaging and dehumanizing names like "goyim". Not to mention how they treated gentiles in the old testament.

And what did the universe ultimately give back to them? The same persecution that they dished out. An eye for an eye will make the world go blind.

I am happy to see that many younger Jews do not believe in this insidious doctrine and are even intermarrying these days. Catholics and Protestants are crossing religious lines now with each other, they can do it with non-Christians also. Let us transcend all of these barriers. Good riddance to religious bigotry from all religions!
From that angle, you are right.

That is why I have written on other threads that Moses did not just bring out the Hebrews of the twelve tribes of Israel only. Many other Hebrews of tribes of Ishmael and Esau and others, were also brought out. So, it is wrong to say that only the Jews are God's Chosen People. God is not prejudiced and biased.

Leaving the dirty politics aside, If you go into the interior of Israel, you can see the native Arabs and Jews sitting, having Qahwah (Coffee/tea) together.

I agree with your gem of a line: "Let us transcend all of these barriers. Good riddance to religious bigotry from all religions!"

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