hiranyakeshin

Kalyan, India

#53 Mar 13, 2009
ref-my previous posts::::in these i had inadvertantly mentioned that mayursharma had invited the shashtik brahmins to vanavasi for performing Yagnas.instead it was Trinetrasharma -father of mayursharma of kadamba dynasty of vanavasi-earstwhile vaijayantipur- who was the one to invite them.pl bear this with me.
ashwalayan

Kalyan, India

#54 Mar 13, 2009
refer the books on the proto-historic issues like origin of the aryans,varnas in the vaidiks and other debated matters:
1)Arctic Home in The Vedas-(Lokmanya) Bal Gangadhar Tilak
2)Orion ---do----
3)Who Were The Shudras?--by Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
i am also enjoying these posts by hiranyakeshin.
incidentally Hiranyakeshin is the branch of Mul Yajurveda-Krishna-of Taittiriya Samhita.So also Ashwalayan is the branch of Rigveda of Shakal samhita.these branches are current in the chitpawan brahmins as of date.long long ago, these two branches were in vogue amongst brahmins at Kashi-VAranasi or Banaras of today as per info given in "Charanvyuha" as cited in "Mantrashastra" of Khareshastri-then the reverred Shankaracharya -edit. by G.P. Bhave. Thus the Chitpawan brahmin's roots will have to be trced back to Kashi in the more ancient times,it is surmised.
Truthful LR

Faridabad, India

#55 Mar 13, 2009
All Indians are original inhabitants of the land called Bharat or Aryavarta. Arya was only a form of address, many women addressed their elders as 'Arya'. The English could not cope with the wealth of knowledge in India( that too after destruction by Muslims for 800 years). The English therefore invented the theory that all knowledge came from Europe and called the process as 'The Aryan Invasion'.
The English also could not digest that anything could be older than Bible (4004 BC) and hence fixed all Indian history to start from 1500 BC. The Indus valley and Rig Veda are much more ancient but unfortunately we are sticking to the theories of Aryan Invasion, Hinduism being not that old, South Indians being 'Dravidian' etc and other similar crap.
Time has come for educated Indians to come out of this syndrome and think outside the English conspiracy.
vedika

Kalyan, India

#56 Mar 13, 2009
i would like knowledgeable persons to shed more light on the proto history of india in the times of the vedics;where in which places the Vedas were revealed,what Tilak has to say on this matter ,how it is right or wrong,what dr ambedkar had said on these issues of aryans being indians etc.
Eros

Rose Hill, Mauritius

#57 Mar 13, 2009
vedika wrote:
i would like knowledgeable persons to shed more light on the proto history of india in the times of the vedics;where in which places the Vedas were revealed,what Tilak has to say on this matter ,how it is right or wrong,what dr ambedkar had said on these issues of aryans being indians etc.
Log on regularly and follow the debates on some of the threads about Hinduism in the forthcoming days.You will get a lot of interesting info about Indian history and culture. But I can tell you for sure that there is and was never any Aryan race which is foreign to India. This has been proved by leading international scientists.

Since: Oct 08

Sterling Heights, MI

#58 Mar 13, 2009
lets call desis brown race, I think desis are mixed race, if you are mixed you are no aryan anymore
videha

Mumbai, India

#59 Mar 13, 2009
haplogroup studiea show that no great changes in the original indian populace took place in last 50000 years. thus there was no aryan invasion--no separate dravidian identity-all the inhabitants of indian subcontinent are fully desis for past more than 50000 years-ref gaikwad et al studies and draw own conclusion if u can follow it.
videha

Mumbai, India

#60 Mar 13, 2009
the haplogroup studies point out that all the humanity had roots in one grand-grand ---mother located 150000 years in the africas from where all humans are descended,spreding all over the world. the grand grand---father is similarly some one who lived in africas about 100000 years past. the racial variations are the results of genetic mutations over these thousands of years-nothing to be racially proud about for white or dark or brown skin,blue or green eyes and other special features. the gene changes also have with them specific disease vulnerabilities.are u proud of them ?they are all in the course of evolution. forget the stress on our being dravids and aryans and tutonics and the like political junk. the fellows do not have intel to understand all this .
hiranyakeshin

Mumbai, India

#61 Mar 14, 2009
the kuldevata of chitpawans is Yogeshwari devi of Ambajogai, by default too.some families have forgotten this and worship other devatas.since the ancestors of chitpawans were settled for a very long long time -probably since the times of Agasti-at and near Ambejogai-paithan-beed-gevrai- this local proto historic devi became their kuldevata as is the general rule.she was not forgotten by most of them even when they later on migrated to vaijayantipur-vanavasi and later to konkan in ratnagiri.
hiranyakeshin

Mumbai, India

#62 Mar 14, 2009
the myths created to explain why this distantly located devi yogeshwari is their kuldevata are truly baseless in this age of science.migration of the devi to ambejogai for marriage et al are truly unimaginative stories to which no thinking chitpawan can subscribe.it is by association and physical proximal worship afforded to the devotees which turns a deity into a kuldevata.again the devi is swayambhu-meaning she has no specific form but is in the form of a TANDALA-indicating her proto-historicity.as the ancestors of chitpawans settled in and near her place in ambajogai in very very ancient times,this equally ancient devi became their kuldevata.
hiranyakeshin

Mumbai, India

#63 Mar 14, 2009
ctd the memory of this yogeshwari is etched into the chitpawan's group mind just like the reverred vedas-inspite of being srayed from her region for over 2000 years.they are not remambering their roots.the rivals floated blatant irrational bluffs as to their origin.but their strong memory of this devi inevitably points out their association with her worship in physical proximity for great stretch of time since agasti came to south
hiranyakeshin

Mumbai, India

#64 Mar 14, 2009
ctd--- all this kuldevata worship is itself proof enough of the ancient existance of chitpawans in india going back to proto historic times of sage agasti .as per hgenetic haplographic evidence,their group was in india at least as far back as holocene-pleistocene say 40000 -50000 years ago.
veegas

Sydney, Australia

#65 Mar 27, 2009
I have studied this subject from a lot of different angles. The conclusion i have come to is that hinduism as it stand today never existed. It's present day populism is all about one religion. BUDDISM.

All the religio-idiots are trying to explain hinduism like it was some interrupted fairyland. The skin color variations had more to do with tribes/weather. The MILLIONS of gods today are the product of brahminical inclucivism inspired by the threat of buddism. The "original" brahmins had only one god, brahma. they also never practiced idolism, drank alcohol and ate beef.

Notice how there is not one shrine dedicated to brahma in the WHOLE OF INDIA? NOT ONE. Shiva and vishnu were minor gods/spirits like an angel in Christianity. They were catapaulted to goddom thanks to ramayana, mahabharata etc.

These plays were most likely tales about local kings/heros like krishna who suddenly became the incarnation of vishnu. It is a foundation myth of hinduism. Krishna is not one person nor was he a god.

Notice how gods like parvati, ganesha, murugan are regional(bengal, maharashtra, tamil nadu) and all of them gain access to the pantheon through the conquest of the guptas, kalinga & cholas?
Also Notice how all of them allow animal sacrifice(biggest taboo in brahmism).

10th century populism where many brahmins gained "converts" through religous observance also greatly contributed to the shades of color in brahmins, which people seem to gloss over.

If brahmin is a "race" it is long gone. If it is a religion it is long gone too. brahma seems to be the little boy that vishnu and shiva bosses around these days. It is important to remember that hinduism is a political concept trying to unite the "others" against prozelytising muslims. If there was no buddism there would be no parvati, murugan or ganesha. if there was no islam there would be no "hinduism".

it seems most indians dont seem to realise just how much their neighbouring religions have shaped their dogma (kama sutra is a great text, but it seems taboo everywhere).
Dallit

Hyderabad, India

#66 Mar 27, 2009
Aupmanyav wrote:
<quoted text>Vikram, you have a time-line problem. Chalukyas belonged to the 6th century AD. Do you mean Aryans came to India or South India only around 6th century? Pulakesin 1 to Kirtivarman II (543-753 AD), before Dantidurga of the Rashtrakutas replaced them.
There have been various gene studies and their conclusions are at variance with each other. I have no problem with Aryan migration to India and once they were here, they went to all places, but how many and at what time is yet not decided.
only konkan brahmins are aryans,not others.
Other Brahmins are the descendents of Dallit fathers when, as a revenge, hundreds of Dallits, fuc*ed the Beautiful cherub like Brahmin girls who wereready to raise their legs so the Dallit could easily enter in their veggina.
veegas

Sydney, Australia

#67 Mar 27, 2009
"only konkan brahmins are aryans,not others.
Other Brahmins are the descendents of Dallit fathers when, as a revenge, hundreds of Dallits, fuc*ed the Beautiful cherub like Brahmin girls who wereready to raise their legs so the Dallit could easily enter in their veggina."

but it seems dalits have smaller cocks then others when they shit on the street. reverse inter-racial gnagbang.

+ some of the aboriginals in australia look like long lost cousins of some dalits. they seem to be (especially ones from south india) very similar.

proto-austroloid migration 60,000 years ago was very near the coastal shelf of asia. they acutally found a tribal guy in india who carried the same marker as a pure-blooded aboriginal
hiranyakeshiin

Kalyan, India

#68 Apr 25, 2009
vi. The theories of Caucasian roots are based upon the Aryan invasion theory, as far as can be understood. The Indians are having a mixed gene pool as the Haplography studies carried out on pilot basis do indicate.
vii. The fair skin, blue or green eyes Caucasian features are not that common amongst the Chitpawans as the old day anthropologists made out. Looking at any major gathering of the Chitpawans, one will observe that they are not as white as the Whites who totally lack melanin. They are not as blue or green eyed as some scholars thought.
viii. Even amongst the Europeans, blue eyes are regarded with wonder. That is why they call someone ‘A BLUE EYED BOY’.
ix. These theorists have not conducted any mass survey of these features among the community proportionate to the population of the Chitpawans. It was the observation in some British gazetteer that started this theorizing.
x. Some of the theorists had based their theories on the measurements and shapes of the skulls and later, on the blood types and that too, without adequate sampling. Of late, this is not regarded as that scientific a method.
xi. Similar studies on a proportionate scale are required to be carried out among the other major and minor Indian population groups for comparative analysis. It may only be possible to draw any significant conclusion from these methods after such mass Haplography surveys are carried out from all the related communities and so called races.
hiranyakeshiin

Kalyan, India

#69 Apr 25, 2009
ARYAN INVASION THEORY:
i. the Chitpawan Brahmins’ unjustly being branded as foreigners on the basis of the faulty Aryan invasion theory of the Europeans--now much in doubt. The so far published results of haplographic studies have different views on these matters. But it has taken well over 100 years of scientific advance to counter this fallacious theory, that too in a small way.
ii. The old Aryan invasion theories are discredited. Instead a current thinking is about spread of so called indo-Aryans from India to Eurasia if I mistake not.
hiranyakeshiin

Kalyan, India

#70 Apr 25, 2009
vi. Readers are referred to the following book:
'Brahman Parakiya Hote ka?'
By Dr.ni.ra.Varhadpande
Pub.:'Vidweshachya Virodhat Jagruti Manch"--H.M. Marathe-Kothrud Pune
411038.
It demolishes the myth leading to strife that Brahmins have foreign origin.
You will all get more researched information on Brahmin’s Proto-History as an
adjunct to my submission.
vii. Also, pl. refer 'Who Were the Shudras' by Dr. B. R. Ambedkar. He proved that the Shudras of the yore of the Vedic times were Vedic Kshatriyas of that time as far as I can understand.
viii. His views against the Aryan Migration Theories as from that book are scholarly and noteworthy and useful to counter the arguments of some vested interest groups trying to project Brahmins as outsiders as a whole with other so called Aryans.
ix. The whites try to bolster their claims to superiority by theorizing on their roots and researching. Max Mueller propounded the theory of Aryan Invasion and a superior white Aryan race. It was with a view to reinforce the British rule as the rule of traditionally a superior race and to propagate the Christian religion in India. Later on, he changed all that to say that there was something like Indo-Aryan Linguistic group showing parallels between the European and North Indian languages and postulating a common pre-Sanskrit original language common to these languages.
x. Now the Indian scholars have shown that the North Indian languages have more in common with the South Indian languages like Tamil (SA-MA-TA theory) than with European languages. Thus, this linguistic analogy between the Indo-European languages also appears to be defective.
hiranyakeshiin

Kalyan, India

#71 Apr 25, 2009
ROOTS OF CHITPAWANS BASED ON HAPLOGRAPHIC STUDIES DEBUNKING THEIR FOREIGN ORIGIN THEORIES:
i. Also the current thinking on haplographic studies is in agreement with the above, as the Brahmins and some upper castes overall do exhibit a similarity to Indo-European strains. Chitpawans are not any exception but may be found conforming to this observation in general.
ii. Now the theorists are regarding that there was no race like Aryans. The word ‘Arya’ was used as a polite way of addressing a male in the civilised society in Sanskrit (like ‘Gentleman’ or ‘Sir’ in English).
iii. The great migration of pre-historic Homo Sapiens is now regarded by some analysts as from Africa to India and then from India to Southeast Asia-Australia-China and that too some 35000 to 60000 ybp or so, and not vice versa in the recent few thousand years, and also the spread of the so-called Indo-European culture and masses is regarded as from India to Europe and to East Eurasia-Asia Minor-Iran etc., and not vice versa.
iv. Thus the stories saying Chitpawans came from some other parts of the world Berber-Egypt-Mesopotamia-etc, founded on the now discredited Aryan invasion theory, existance of a special race called the Aryans and their origin in the Eurasia, are all lacking foundation.

Since: Apr 09

Delhi, India

#73 Apr 26, 2009
Truthful LR wrote:
All Indians are original inhabitants of the land called Bharat or Aryavarta. Arya was only a form of address, many women addressed their elders as 'Arya'. The English could not cope with the wealth of knowledge in India( that too after destruction by Muslims for 800 years). The English therefore invented the theory that all knowledge came from Europe and called the process as 'The Aryan Invasion'.
The English also could not digest that anything could be older than Bible (4004 BC) and hence fixed all Indian history to start from 1500 BC. The Indus valley and Rig Veda are much more ancient but unfortunately we are sticking to the theories of Aryan Invasion, Hinduism being not that old, South Indians being 'Dravidian' etc and other similar crap.
Time has come for educated Indians to come out of this syndrome and think outside the English conspiracy.
Well said. Aurobindo himself has said that arya means noble, and all Hindus are Aryas.

There is no such thing as an Aryan invasion or migration which were fabricated by the european racist scholars to justify the white British invasion and oppression of Indians.

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