only konkan brahmins are aryans,not others

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vikram

Hyderabad, India

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#1
Apr 5, 2008
 
Typical light skin and grayish to green eyes[citation needed], recent studies (Kivisild et.al. 2003, Gaikwad et.al. 2005) on the genetics of Konkanasta Brahmins have been quite surprising. Unlike previous claims of European origins, it appears that the Chitpavans are a group of people with diverse genetic origins.

The origins on the maternal side (mt-DNA) are equally surprising[attribution needed]. Unlike most other Indians whose maternal origins can be almost exclusively traced to the single macro-haplogroup M (mt-DNA), studies (Kivisild et.al. 2003, Gaikwad et.al. 2005) indicate that the Chitpavan gene-pool shows the presence of various other Central Asian and European mt-DNA haplogroups, in particular, the U (mt-DNA), H (mt-DNA), HV (mt-DNA), X (mt-DNA), R*(mt-DNA), and N1 (mt-DNA) haplgroups.

On the paternal side (Y-DNA), R1a (Y-DNA) is the most frequently found haplogroup. Incidentally, this haplogroup is also commonly found amongst North Indians (Sahoo et.al. 2006), Central Asians, and East Europeans. The presence of a deep common ancestry between these regions remains a puzzle to this day. Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA) is another frequently found haplogroup considered to be of Middle-Eastern origins and found in a lot of higher-caste Indians
This is the only group in india which is genetically and structurally so very close to aryans.

from wikipedia[you know it]
Alrighty

Alexandria, VA

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#2
Apr 5, 2008
 
There are Aryans throughout Maharashtra. Many Marathas have light features, whats your point?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji was one of the bravest Indians he had dark skin and was missing one eye.
vikram

Hyderabad, India

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#3
Apr 5, 2008
 
Yes ,many marathas have light skin .This can be attributed to saraswat brahmin[aryans of NWFP] migration,the migration of aryans after chalukya s of badami were destroyed.
This explains the concentration of many marathi kshatriyas who mixed with marathis making maratha from a land of dravidians to a land of aryans.
Also,whites are found near west coast and westwest maharastra.People of nagpur,osmanabad,latur etc are pretty dark.

from IISC report-

Chitpavan brahmin demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste. This also explains their untraceable ethno-history before 1000 years, brahminization event and later amalgamation by Maratha."

"... non-recombining uniparental contributions in Chitpavan-brahmin Mediterranean or East European type as shown by 20%(HV, U3) mtDNA lineages and highly frequent (R1a and L) Y-haplogroups. The admixture and PC analyses (Figure 3a, b) reflected genetic association of Chitpavan-brahmin with Iranian, Ashkenazi-Jews (Turkey), Greeks (East Europe) and to some extent with Central Asian Turkish populations elucidating their distinct Nordic,“Scytho-Iranian” ancestry.

The Caucasian link of Chitpavan-brahmin has also been inferred from biparental microsatellites variations (Figure 3c). The observed genomic analyses asserted the ethnographical fact that Chitpavan-brahmin share ancestry with conspicuously European-looking Pagan or Alpine group, who under religious pressure had migrated from Anatolian Turkey or East Europe to Gujarat coast probably via sea-vessel. Besides, their documented history is untraceable beyond 1000 years, further indicating that they were not part of the original Vedic migrations (early Indo-European) on the west coast. Therefore, the present genome analyses provide conclusive evidence of their recent migration, genesis, and expansion after they migrated from “Sopara”(India’s western trade zone) to geographically isolated Konkan-region, where they adopted “Konkani” language, and cultivated cash crop. Their considerable genetic affinity with Maratha caste further corroborated the prevalent norm that few of the dynamic and intelligent Chitpavans were “Brahmanized” for performing religious rituals in King Shivaji’s court (elite Maratha group) and some members were given the title of “Peshwa” or Minister for managing the administration of Maratha kingdom, which was extended farther north after King’s death under their rule. We observed 15% similar HVS -1 sequence motif (M4 lineage) between Chitpavan-brahmin and Bene-Israeli (or Indian Jews), probably suggesting similar indigenous Paleolithic contribution. Compared to Desasth-brahmin, Kokanasth-brahmin showed lowest biparental diversity, younger age of population based upon Tau value, larger genetic affinity with West Asians plus East Europeans suggesting their recent descent, in absence of bottleneck effect.
vikram

Hyderabad, India

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#4
Apr 5, 2008
 
"The wisdom of the ancients has been taught by the philosophers of Greece, but also by people called Jews in Syria, and by Brahmins in India."
-Megasthenes, Greek Ambassador to Gupta Empire of India (now Afghanistan, Pakistan and Northern India), writing around 300 BC.

“I am Hindu”

Since: Nov 07

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#6
Apr 12, 2008
 

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This term Aryan and Dravidians are highly confusing for Non-Indians.

We have the same type of people throughout India.
India is diverse country.

Now people classify people on Language Group-
Sanskrit based Languages and Tamil Based Languages group.

I could not understand one thing-
Hindi has less in common with sanskrit and
South Indian Languages are closer to sanskrit.
Then how did researchers brand one language group as Aryan and the other as Dravidian?

For me all Indians are mixed up lot.
The direct Mixup can be found in MadhyaPradesh, Maharashtra, Orissa, WBengal, Bihar and UP.

Kashmir, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal have little mix up.

Rajastan and Gujarat is almost the same as South Indian mixup.

So there is no Aryan and Dravidian. Only Indian.
vikram

Hyderabad, India

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#7
Apr 13, 2008
 
Hind wrote:
Now people classify people on Language Group-
Sanskrit based Languages and Tamil Based Languages group.
.
Nope.Hindi is more similar to sanskrit than any other language of ind
Alrighty

Alexandria, VA

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#8
Apr 13, 2008
 

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Hind wrote:
I could not understand one thing-
Hindi has less in common with sanskrit and
South Indian Languages are closer to sanskrit.
That is blatantly wrong Hind. Marathi and Hindi are the closest to Sanskrit, Punjabi is a dumb down version of Hindi. And Sanskrit is closer to Latin then south Indian languages.
vikram

Hyderabad, India

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#9
Apr 13, 2008
 
Alrighty wrote:
<quoted text>
That is blatantly wrong Hind. Marathi and Hindi are the closest to Sanskrit, Punjabi is a dumb down version of Hindi. And Sanskrit is closer to Latin then south Indian languages.
The linguist asko parpola's article says that rig vedic sanskrit has 88% aryan words for which we can find cognates in languages such as latin,greek,german,english,spa nish etc..,.

Saskrit has 12%dravidian loan words.

Sanskrit is the oldest european language and no other aryan language,including greek or latin has so much in common with other european languages.
All the european languages take the base from ancient rig vedic sanskrit which is the original language of aryans spoken in the ancient aryan homeland prior to aryan invasion.

Ancient Hindi had 25% sanskrit loan words and the rest from pali,prakrit and brahmi.
But today hindi is corrupted with urdu which has tribal ,arabic and parsi loan words.

Punjabi is corrupted with urdu,baltic,arabic,parsi ,dardic ,balochi and it does not have a good relation with sanskrit though both come from indo european family.
It is 12% similar to sanskrit.

from article of asko parpola

I wanted to copy and paste this article but some members will create furore if i do so.
Alrighty

Alexandria, VA

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#10
Apr 14, 2008
 
vikram wrote:
<quoted text>
The linguist asko parpola's article says that rig vedic sanskrit has 88% aryan words for which we can find cognates in languages such as latin,greek,german,english,spa nish etc..,.
Saskrit has 12%dravidian loan words.
Sanskrit is the oldest european language and no other aryan language,including greek or latin has so much in common with other european languages.
All the european languages take the base from ancient rig vedic sanskrit which is the original language of aryans spoken in the ancient aryan homeland prior to aryan invasion.
Ancient Hindi had 25% sanskrit loan words and the rest from pali,prakrit and brahmi.
But today hindi is corrupted with urdu which has tribal ,arabic and parsi loan words.
Punjabi is corrupted with urdu,baltic,arabic,parsi ,dardic ,balochi and it does not have a good relation with sanskrit though both come from indo european family.
It is 12% similar to sanskrit.
from article of asko parpola
I wanted to copy and paste this article but some members will create furore if i do so.
Yes they are probably corrupted. But I think both Hindi and Punjabi in their pure form are very much related to Sanskrit.

“I am Hindu”

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#11
Apr 14, 2008
 
If you compare Malayalam and Marathi, Malayalam has more Sanskrit words.

Kudumbam means family in Tamil.
Kudumbam means family in Sanskrit also.
Alrighty

Alexandria, VA

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#12
Apr 14, 2008
 
The language belongs to the family of Dravidian languages. There are conflicting theories concerning the origin of the language. Robert Caldwell, in his book A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian or South-Indian Languages considers Malayalam to be an ancient off-shoot of classical Tamil, that over time, gained a large amount of Sanskrit vocabulary and lost the personal terminations of verbs.[3] However, linguists like Hermann Gundert consider Malayalam to have diverged from Proto-Tamil-Malayalam, or Proto-Dravidian. Malayalam has a script of its own, covering all the symbols of Sanskrit as well as special Dravidian letters. Recent archaeological evidences have indicated Malayalam to be as old a language as the other Dravidian languages, and that it evolved over the centuries, with its versions having different names. This is unlike Tamil. Though Classical Tamil and modern Tamil are very different, both are still referred to as Tamil.

Over a period of many centuries Marathi language and people came in touch with many other languages and dialects. The primary influence of Prakrit, Maharashtri, Apbhramsha and Sanskrit is understandable.

Day-to-day Marathi includes a higher number of Sanskrit-derived (tatsam) words than sister languages like Hindi. Some Sanskrit words that are common in day-to-day spoken Marathi include nantar ( from nantaram or after), pur&#7751;a (pur&#7751;am or complete, full, or full measure of something), anna (annam or food), kara&#7751; (kara&#7751;am or cause) kad&#257;chit (kad&#257;chit or perhaps) satat (satatam or always), abhy&#257;s (abhy&#257;sam or study), vichitra (vichitram or strange), svatah (svatah or himself/herself), prayatna (prayatnam or effort), bhiti (from bhiti, or fear) and vishesh (vishesham or special), amongst others.

While Marathi has shared both directions, vocabulary and grammar with languages like Indian Dravidian languages, and a few foreign languages like Persian, Arabic, English and a little from Portuguese.

While recent genome studies suggest some amount of political and trade relations between the Indian subcontinent and East Africa, Middle East, Central Asia over a millennium, these studies are still not conclusive about exact effect on linguistcs.
Hind

Seven Hills, Australia

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#13
Apr 14, 2008
 
The two classical languages of India, namely Tamil and Sanskrit evolved from a common script called Brahmi

http://our_legacy.pitas.com/

“Maths Guru Srinivasa Ramanujan”

Since: Jul 07

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#16
Apr 14, 2008
 
vikram wrote:
This can be attributed to saraswat brahmin [aryans of NWFP] migration,the migration of aryans after chalukyas of badami were destroyed.
Vikram, you have a time-line problem. Chalukyas belonged to the 6th century AD. Do you mean Aryans came to India or South India only around 6th century? Pulakesin 1 to Kirtivarman II (543-753 AD), before Dantidurga of the Rashtrakutas replaced them.

There have been various gene studies and their conclusions are at variance with each other. I have no problem with Aryan migration to India and once they were here, they went to all places, but how many and at what time is yet not decided.
vikram

Hyderabad, India

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#17
Apr 14, 2008
 
Aupmanyav wrote:
<quoted text>Vikram, you have a time-line problem. Chalukyas belonged to the 6th century AD. Do you mean Aryans came to India or South India only around 6th century? Pulakesin 1 to Kirtivarman II (543-753 AD), before Dantidurga of the Rashtrakutas replaced them.
There have been various gene studies and their conclusions are at variance with each other. I have no problem with Aryan migration to India and once they were here, they went to all places, but how many and at what time is yet not decided.
Sir,saraswat brahmins[settled in sindh during 2000 BC] had to leave northwest india in 6 th cent AD after harsha's time because of the invasions by brabarians,tocharians and huns.The muslim invasion did not help either.The purashurama myth was said to be created around this time.
kamdev

Mauritius

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#19
Apr 18, 2008
 

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Hind wrote:
This term Aryan and Dravidians are highly confusing for Non-Indians.
We have the same type of people throughout India.
India is diverse country.
Now people classify people on Language Group-
Sanskrit based Languages and Tamil Based Languages group.
I could not understand one thing-
Hindi has less in common with sanskrit and
South Indian Languages are closer to sanskrit.
Then how did researchers brand one language group as Aryan and the other as Dravidian?
For me all Indians are mixed up lot.
The direct Mixup can be found in MadhyaPradesh, Maharashtra, Orissa, WBengal, Bihar and UP.
Kashmir, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal have little mix up.
Rajastan and Gujarat is almost the same as South Indian mixup.
So there is no Aryan and Dravidian. Only Indian.
You are absolutely right ! These theories have been manufactured by European historians in order to confuse the Indains about their origin. According to them , all original Indians have to be dark and without any intelligence .
kamdev

Mauritius

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#20
Apr 18, 2008
 
Only those Indians who suffer from inferiority complex vis a vis the white Europeans will continue to accept the Aryan invasion theory. They tend to associate with that theory because they feel proud when they are also referred to as Caucasians. Just like the Arabs.
Five Pillars

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#21
Aug 17, 2008
 

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Five Pillars
(Arabic Arkan al-Islam, "pillars of Islam" or Arkan ud-Din, "pillars of the faith"). The five primary duties of every Muslim: profession of faith (shahada), ritual prayer (salat), fasting during Ramadan (sawm), pilgrimmage to Mecca (hajj) and charity (zakat). Fulfillment of these duties brings rewards on earth and in the afterlife.
Prabhu

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#22
Aug 24, 2008
 
Hi Vikram,
I am intrigued by your statement that the haplogroup J2 is considered to be of Middle-Eastern origin and found in a lot of higher-caste Indians. In fact, my haplogroup is J2 (M172)and I have documented evidence that I am a gaud saraswat brahmin. Could you please provide me with the literature source on which your statement is based? Thank you.
Regards
Prabhu
vikram wrote:
Typical light skin and grayish to green eyes[citation needed], recent studies (Kivisild et.al. 2003, Gaikwad et.al. 2005) on the genetics of Konkanasta Brahmins have been quite surprising. Unlike previous claims of European origins, it appears that the Chitpavans are a group of people with diverse genetic origins.
The origins on the maternal side (mt-DNA) are equally surprising[attribution needed]. Unlike most other Indians whose maternal origins can be almost exclusively traced to the single macro-haplogroup M (mt-DNA), studies (Kivisild et.al. 2003, Gaikwad et.al. 2005) indicate that the Chitpavan gene-pool shows the presence of various other Central Asian and European mt-DNA haplogroups, in particular, the U (mt-DNA), H (mt-DNA), HV (mt-DNA), X (mt-DNA), R*(mt-DNA), and N1 (mt-DNA) haplgroups.
On the paternal side (Y-DNA), R1a (Y-DNA) is the most frequently found haplogroup. Incidentally, this haplogroup is also commonly found amongst North Indians (Sahoo et.al. 2006), Central Asians, and East Europeans. The presence of a deep common ancestry between these regions remains a puzzle to this day. Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA) is another frequently found haplogroup considered to be of Middle-Eastern origins and found in a lot of higher-caste Indians
This is the only group in india which is genetically and structurally so very close to aryans.
from wikipedia[you know it]
Prabhu

Switzerland

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#23
Aug 24, 2008
 
Hi Vikram,
I am intrigued by your statement that the haplogroup J2 is considered to be of Middle-Eastern origin and found in a lot of higher-caste Indians. In fact, my haplogroup is J2 (M172)and I have documented evidence that I am a gaud saraswat brahmin. Could you please provide me with the literature source on which your statement is based? Thank you.
Regards
Prabhu
Kamath

India

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#26
Sep 15, 2008
 
Can u furnish some information on ur mtdNA.

Thanks,
Kamath

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