Must Read Gandhi's Son Harilal on Gandhi, and his agony

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varma

Hyderabad, India

#1 Jul 11, 2007
In your laboratory of experiments, unfortunately I am the one truth that has gone wrong….
Yours,
Harilal

“All this ‘long live Mahatma Gandhi’…this adulation… it is only because of my mother.”
-Harilal

“Alcohol kills me and alcohol cures me…”
-Harilal

“ I Am She SaHum”

Since: Apr 07

World

#2 Jul 11, 2007
varma wrote:
In your laboratory of experiments, unfortunately I am the one truth that has gone wrong….
Yours,
Harilal
“All this ‘long live Mahatma Gandhi’…this adulation… it is only because of my mother.”
-Harilal
“Alcohol kills me and alcohol cures me…”
-Harilal


Yes a good tree can have a bad apple.

You should read Lagacy of Love. Arun Gandhi talks about his Grand Father with lots of love. Its clear he and many others in his family believed he was a great man a true Mahatma.
varma

Hyderabad, India

#3 Jul 11, 2007
Want to be Hindu wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes a good tree can have a bad apple.
You should read Lagacy of Love. Arun Gandhi talks about his Grand Father with lots of love. Its clear he and many others in his family believed he was a great man a true Mahatma.
It wasn't about bad and good, Harilal evolved to what he was because of his father the "Gandhi"
It is very injustice to blame the kid, who like normal kids wanted to study, get a good job and settle well in life, but his aspirations always were consistently opposed by Gandhi, and actively nipped..
Ok if he was a bad apple, but his second son too ended up deluded, though he didn't slide to the pits that Harilal slided to.
.
This made Gandhi not to force his beliefs and dogmas upon his 3rd and 4th sons realizing his foolish behavior that consumed his 2 elder son's.
.
Bad apple does not take birth in the mid air, Feel the agony of kid when he is stopped to pursue his dreams and aspirations, and Harilal's dream was a mere desire to study Barrister course and what does Gandhi say, he asks no need to study, Follow him(gandhi), It is not because Gandhi cannot afford his son the course, but wht..wht is it stupidity, idiocy, wht, the man who talks about freedom, and freedom of soul and forcing like a dictator on his own children's against their aspirations as mere as getting good education is unpardonable according to me...Though he reaslised his foolishness and didn't repeat with his other younger children.
.
I am not abusing Gandhi, but Harilal's story was perfect, the story of a son under a dictatorial father, in the present parlance in America and western countries, this behavior will be called abuse.
.

“ I Am She SaHum”

Since: Apr 07

World

#4 Jul 12, 2007
varma wrote:
<quoted text>
It wasn't about bad and good, Harilal evolved to what he was because of his father the "Gandhi"
It is very injustice to blame the kid, who like normal kids wanted to study, get a good job and settle well in life, but his aspirations always were consistently opposed by Gandhi, and actively nipped..
Ok if he was a bad apple, but his second son too ended up deluded, though he didn't slide to the pits that Harilal slided to.
.
This made Gandhi not to force his beliefs and dogmas upon his 3rd and 4th sons realizing his foolish behavior that consumed his 2 elder son's.
.
Bad apple does not take birth in the mid air, Feel the agony of kid when he is stopped to pursue his dreams and aspirations, and Harilal's dream was a mere desire to study Barrister course and what does Gandhi say, he asks no need to study, Follow him(gandhi), It is not because Gandhi cannot afford his son the course, but wht..wht is it stupidity, idiocy, wht, the man who talks about freedom, and freedom of soul and forcing like a dictator on his own children's against their aspirations as mere as getting good education is unpardonable according to me...Though he reaslised his foolishness and didn't repeat with his other younger children.
.
I am not abusing Gandhi, but Harilal's story was perfect, the story of a son under a dictatorial father, in the present parlance in America and western countries, this behavior will be called abuse.
.
Look I have worked with abused kids for years. I know kids who there parents lock them in a closet for days. Kids who were raped with the end of a shovel. I know child abuse. I have held children as they cried for hours. What you are talking about is not called child abuse in America. I could only wish to have a Dad like Gandhi. You will find any reason to say bad things about Gandhi. Arun Gandhi and his dad & mom has a very good view the Mahatma.Since Arun Gandhi is a true Hindu filled with love. I will believe him.
TheBuffaloGuy

San Leandro, CA

#5 Jul 22, 2007
Varna, as Wanna Be pointed out, what you describe is what a lot of American's would refer to as "being a parent".

You speak of aspirations of a child as if he's a grown man. How many people do you think grow up to become Princesses, Astronauts (my own personal dream), Cowboys, ect?

Furthermore, being that you live in India, is amazes me that you would consider such a method to be traumatic, where as there are plenty of belts and canes to go around.

My own father had no help from his dad to learn (he would talk about sitting under street lamps for light). Didn't stop him from graduating from IIT Kanpur. In fact he would tell me that this was the case for a lot of his peers. My grandma was never allowed to go to school. Didn't make her turn to alcohol, and lurk around talking about how depressing her childhood was.

Anyways my point is that, a man (a real man) generally doesn't blame his parents for the life he leads in later years. There is always time to change. I hear a lot of people talk about the abusive or nonexistent relationships they shared with their parents. But one thing that is common amongst them, is the lack of blame. Simple as that.

*Wow Republican dogma has some truth to it.*

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#6 Jul 23, 2007
wow, I don't even have to try to correct varma's posts anymore. Thanks guys.
Desi_Inside

Grand Rapids, MI

#7 Aug 15, 2007
<<<
Anyways my point is that, a man (a real man) generally doesn't blame his parents for the life he leads in later years. There is always time to change. >>>
One thousand percent correct.

I had been in situations that I didn't liked or didn't wanted in to be. And I started blaming on circumstances started blaming on people around me for my situation ... But when I sit back and think, it was me who got myself into the situation and it is me who can get me out myself. Blaming somebody else is not going to help

“Maths Guru Srinivasa Ramanujan”

Since: Jul 07

New Delhi

#8 Aug 17, 2007
I feel sorry for Harilal, being made to leave his studies. Mohan Das did not take good care of the boy, it was his responsibility.
Harilal curse of Gandhi

Piscataway, NJ

#9 Oct 16, 2007
I feel that Gandhi must have grown so much in fame, stature that he could not let his fame be advantageous to his sons because of his strict and adament principles. At times, he was more concerned of his own pride than worry about his sons welfare. Gandhi wanted to set example to the world by going against his sons. If gandhi deprived eductaion to his sons, then i hold him responsible for the basic education which was deprived to harilal.
But, there is other side of harilal being not able to pass his matriculation, un-ethical business practise, drunkard.... But, do we really have the both sides of the stories....It would have been more favourable to get deeper insight on gandhi and his sons.... Getting Arun Gandhi's opinion in public will always be biased....
I feel harilal deliberately wanted to hurt Gandhi for his own actions with a motive of revenge of his dead wife and lives struggle....
Gandhi was a great man. But, at times he was strong headed and took harsh decisions. He showed open favourtism to Nehru to be the PM which had its own consequences. At some point, it must have been unbearable to many to follow with his strict principles and the consequences to ordinary people. He must have reached a state where it was easy for him to lay the path but very difficult for everyone to follow...
What could be bigger curse than be born to a famous person ?

“ I Am She SaHum”

Since: Apr 07

World

#10 Oct 16, 2007
Gandhi was a great man. I wish I could understand why so many feel the need to run him down.

“Maths Guru Srinivasa Ramanujan”

Since: Jul 07

New Delhi

#11 Oct 16, 2007
I am not into denigrating Mahatma Gandhi. No doubt he was one of the greatest Indians in 20th Century. He was not the only one who did not want his son to take advantage of his position. Lal Bahadur was another. In that period, there were many like that. People still cared about morality.
Vasu Chikkatur Murthy

East Elmhurst, NY

#12 Oct 20, 2007
I just saw the DVD movie of Gandhi-my father by Anil Kapoor. I was an avid reader of Gandhi as the world knows him for fighting for freedom, non-violence and his own experiments with truth. Yet I was totally unaware of his failure as a father. What he could have done or not done is postmortem analysis now, but key things emerge from the fact:

Gandhi MK limited the development of his children from pursuing their vocation and used them as pieces of his big game. Alternatively, one can also think of what must have gone in minds of Kasturba when she silently sacrificed her children's future to support the dream of her husband. One issue stands out, when you are in a greater mission like Gandhi, your children will face the sacrifical lamb situation as it is difficult for one to keep for the welfare of the family versus the welfare of a nation, yet unborn.

My view of the world has changed from the previous view of Gandhi and the altered image of Gandhi in the light of Harilal tragedy. However it does surprise me that Harilal never set a foot in the direction and how he could have failed to pass a matric exam?

My sympathies are with the Gandhi family as it is difficult to achieve a balance between family and the ambition of a person, as huge a stature of Gandhi

“ I Am She SaHum”

Since: Apr 07

World

#13 Oct 23, 2007
Gandhi children have difrent views on what type of dad he was. Maybe you should read lagacy of love by Arun Gandhi. Let us not forget that the great thing about Gandhi is how much he changed in his life. The young man raising children was not the same man at the end of his life. If we judge Valmiki by the same rules that apply to Gandhi we would all stop reading the ramayana he did kill people before he became a sage.
Suresh

Waltham, MA

#14 Dec 5, 2007
It is an hard to beat some'educated' Indians for jumping to fast conclusion, forming opinion and lacking a semblance of perspective.
Mohandas Gandhi was 18 yrs when Harilal was born.
Hello, how were your maturity or goals when you were 18 ? try 30 ?
Besides, Gandhi had to choose between time for the cause of millions of 'slaves' and some time off from the children.
Which one was nobler?
And is irony coming off (pretty positive) from many who burn 16 hour work day for more 'greed' leaving their children at day care.
Back off you ignomarus who criticize Gandhi.

“ I Am She SaHum”

Since: Apr 07

World

#15 Dec 6, 2007
Suresh wrote:
It is an hard to beat some'educated' Indians for jumping to fast conclusion, forming opinion and lacking a semblance of perspective.
Mohandas Gandhi was 18 yrs when Harilal was born.
Hello, how were your maturity or goals when you were 18 ? try 30 ?
Besides, Gandhi had to choose between time for the cause of millions of 'slaves' and some time off from the children.
Which one was nobler?
And is irony coming off (pretty positive) from many who burn 16 hour work day for more 'greed' leaving their children at day care.
Back off you ignomarus who criticize Gandhi.
Very good point.

“Maths Guru Srinivasa Ramanujan”

Since: Jul 07

New Delhi

#16 Dec 6, 2007
My objection is this. When Gandhi was 30, and Harilal was 12 (perhaps studying in 8th or 9th), if Gandhi was busy in other things and not able to pay attention to Harilal, he could have appointed tutors to help Harilal. If Harilal was not doing well in studies, then he could have been sent back to the family in India, perhaps they could have helped. If Gandhi did not want Harilal to go to British run schools in South Africa, Harilal could have joined some DAV school in Idia. The education of Harilal was Mahatma Gandhi's responsibility (dharma) and he failed in that (this is known as Rishi-Rina among hindus, he did not pay it back). I love Gandhi, but a fact is a fact.
Nitin

India

#17 Dec 21, 2007
Quite cool!
Never knew Gandhi can find so many supporters.

I will start with a small corporate thing first.
When you appear for a high post today, the companies look at what kind of level you are at. Are you a Level IV leader, or a Level V leader (yes, leaders are categorized by their capability).

A Level IV leader is one, who has the capacity to lead a big mass and take them to achieve his dream goals that fits in bigger goals of the company. But often when he leaves the company comes to a standstill and loses its edge.

A Level V leader on the other hand, does not carries that god like aura, rather he is the one who is in mix of things, but when he leaves, he leaves behind a series of leaders who can go on to take up the company to next level on the basis of culture he has developed.

Coming back to Mahatama Gandhi,

Gandhi in this perspective had been a level IV leader, the man was just striving for his in own Individual dreams and principles. For him there was nothing above them. Neither the love for his country, nor his family, nor the congress or freedom was above his principles. Think of these:

In 1921, Republican Muslim leader Hasrat Mohani wanted to move a resolution defining Swaraj as complete independence, free from all foreign control. Much to the relief of the British, Gandhi led the opposition against the resolution and secured it's rejection.

In 1921, there was seething anger against the high taxes imposed by the British. Delegations from numerous districts approached Gandhi to lead a No-Tax campaign. In Guntur, the no-tax campaign began without the permission of the national leadership, but Gandhi responded by calling for all taxes to be paid by the due date. However, he agreed to lead a No-Tax campaign in the single district of Bardoli, but even that was withdrawn when he heard news of a peasant rebellion in Chauri Chaura village in UP. Gandhi's Bardoli decision created deep consternation in Congress circles. Subhas Chandra Bose wrote: "To sound the order of retreat just when public enthusiasm was reaching the boiling point was nothing short of a national calamity. The principal lieutenants of the Mahatma, Deshbandhu Das, Pandit Motilal Nehru and Lala Lajpat Rai, who were all in prison, shared the popular resentment. But Gandhi was uninfluenced.

In 1939, Subash Chandra Bose defeated Gandhi's nominee Pattabhi Sitaramayya to be re-elected Congress president. But Gandhi launched a campaign of non-cooperation against him, and he resigned a few months later.

Role In Partition & Kashmir Issue.
India owed to Pakistan a debt of 55 Crores whereas Pakistan owed to India a debt of Rs. 300 Crores. Government had already decided to recover Rs. 245 Crores from Pakistan. Gandhi began a fast unto death and made Pakistan free of debt of Rs. 245 crores it owed to India on the basis of which, Pakistan managed to attack Kashmir for the first time after Independence! Nathuram Godse then slayed Gandhi on 30th January.

Why Nathuram Godse slayed Gandhi

Shri Ram Manohar Lohiya said, "Nathuram's way was wrong, yet the reasons for his agitation were right and factual. The egos of leaders especially those of Mahatma's are terrible! ". The interesting point to note is that Nathuram Godse was himself a Satyagrahi and an ardent follower of Gandhi's Harijan seva. He had actively participated in inter-caste Marriage and functions of Dalits. He was in short a Satyagrahi and a Dalit Activist.

Not sure if more text will fit in so keeping it short!

Oh by the way, regarding Level V leader, Bhagat Singh was one person who could have become the level V leader with his attempt to raise the Indian youth at cost of his life, but again thanks Gandhi for suppressing the anger and public resentment!
Yirmi Bes

Columbus, OH

#19 Nov 20, 2008
25 - Unwell Infidel Dwell In Hell...

The Family of Imran
[3.12] Say to those who disbelieve: You shall be vanquished, and driven together to hell; and evil is the resting-place.

The Women
[4.140] And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell.

The Accessions
[8.36] Surely those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (people) from the way of Allah; so they shall spend it, then it shall be to them an intense regret, then they shall be overcome; and those who disbelieve shall be driven together to hell.

The Cave
[18.102] What! do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants to be guardians besides Me? Surely We have prepared hell for the entertainment of the unbelievers.
[18.106] Thus it is that their recompense is hell, because they disbelieved and held My communications and My apostles in mockery.

The Originator
[35.34] And (as for) those who disbelieve, for them is the fire of hell; it shall not be finished with them entirely so that they should die, nor shall the chastisement thereof be lightened to them: even thus do We retribute every ungrateful one.

The Companions
[39.71] And those who disbelieve shall be driven to hell in companies; until, when they come to it, its doors shall be opened, and the keepers of it shall say to them: Did not there come to you apostles from among you reciting to you the communications of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours? They shall say: Yea! But the sentence of punishment was due against the unbelievers.

The Iron
[57.19] And (as for) those who believe in Allah and His apostles, these it is that are the truthful and the faithful ones in the sight of their Lord: they shall have their reward and their light, and (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the inmates of the hell.

The Kingdom
[67.6] And for those who disbelieve in their Lord is the punishment of hell, and evil is the resort.

The Clear Evidence
[98.6] Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.
Vivek Golikeri

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#20 Jul 4, 2009
Want to be Hindu wrote:
Gandhi was a great man. I wish I could understand why so many feel the need to run him down.
It's not Gandhi the man that persons like myself despise. It is Gandhi the holier-than-thou myth that Indians and others have made out of him. Yes, he was a great man and all that, yet in his own way could be an ideological tyrant and a fanatic. His biggest problem was that in his idealism, he lived in a dream world of foolishness. For example, look at his advice to the Jews of Hitler's Europe to "offer themselves to the butcher's knife" in the hope of stirring the conscience of the world.

Yet the biggest lie concerning Gandhi is the myth that his "non-violence" nonsense rid India of the greatest power of the day. It was nothing but good old violence, inflicted by the Second World Wr, and the INA that Subhash Chandra Bose created.

Bose, not Gandhi, is the true father of Indian independence.
An indian

India

#22 Jun 30, 2010
Gandhiji scarifies his life for our nation. Whatever he did is for the sake of us….we can’t blame Gandhiji for his son’s failure.

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