Empty Episcopal Parishes cost Diocese...

Empty Episcopal Parishes cost Dioceses Million$

There are 51 comments on the www.virtueonline.org story from Aug 26, 2012, titled Empty Episcopal Parishes cost Dioceses Million$. In it, www.virtueonline.org reports that:

Slowly, the truth begins to emerge. The Episcopal (Church) is not merely losing parishes to the Anglican Church in North America. They are also closing parishes because they lack for people and a gospel witness ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.virtueonline.org.

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Listen to the Word

Lake Havasu City, AZ

#1 Aug 26, 2012
"The truth beginning to emerge"?!! It has been as plain as the nose on TEC for decades! Are they really so imperceptive? Good grief, they are astonishing clueless!

In the article, the "lack of a gospel witness" is used to describe the churches that have been closed. The reality is that most of them closed because, like TEC, they lacked a gospel witness while open.

A general principle is that members do not leave churches unless they are not being spiritually fed at that church. TEC has not had any solid scriptural teaching for decades. Now, after decades of political activism instead of gospel activity, the truth is just emerging for them? Give me a break! Even hardened liberals cannot be that stupid!

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#2 Aug 26, 2012
Listen to the Word wrote:
"The truth beginning to emerge"?!! It has been as plain as the nose on TEC for decades! Are they really so imperceptive? Good grief, they are astonishing clueless!
In the article, the "lack of a gospel witness" is used to describe the churches that have been closed. The reality is that most of them closed because, like TEC, they lacked a gospel witness while open.
A general principle is that members do not leave churches unless they are not being spiritually fed at that church. TEC has not had any solid scriptural teaching for decades. Now, after decades of political activism instead of gospel activity, the truth is just emerging for them? Give me a break! Even hardened liberals cannot be that stupid!
Oh, Baloney!

Mostly, the reductions in membership are happening in all mainline denominations. In Europe, Roman Catholic Church attendance is down to about 20%.

It is plain old demographics coupled with a change in sources of information, during a period of changing traditions as a result of truth revealed.

It is all a good thing.

"Oh, ye of little faith!" and "Ye, who do not listen" like the chicken-little writer of the post above.

Rev. Ken

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#3 Aug 27, 2012
Here some more numbers on membership drops around the world.

http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/07...

Rapid Catholic Decline in Spain
Jul 30
Posted by Editor in Demographics and Sociology

The proportion of Spaniards who say they are Roman Catholic has fallen to 73 percent from around 80 percent just eight years ago. The findings reflected not just the rapid pace of secularisation the country has undergone this century but also the Roman Catholic Church’s “loss of credibility,” said Spanish theologian Juan Jose Tamayo.

AND

http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/germ...

German Catholics turn backs on church
Jan. 14, 2011
By Paul Hockenos

BERLIN -- By just about any measure, 2010 was not a luminous year for Germany’s Catholic church -- and the Protestants didn’t fare much better. Rocked by sex, physical abuse, and corruption scandals, an unprecedented number of German Catholics -- the most in postwar Germany’s history -- turned their backs on the church, formally renouncing their membership. Some switched to one of the Protestant churches, though those churches, in aggregate, also lost members.
Germany’s demographics find it 30 percent Catholic, 30 percent Protestant, 34 percent non-confessional, and 4-5 percent Muslim.
Most affected were those southern German bishoprics implicated in the sex abuse scandals -- in Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg -- where leading Catholic figures, such as Bishop Walter Mixa of Augsburg, were forced to resign. In April, the 68-year-old Mixa, also the bishop of the Bundeswehr, Germany’s armed forces, stepped down amid allegations that he beat children at a Bavarian orphanage in the 1970s and ’80s. Further charges alleged that Mixa, during his tenure as a parish priest and head of the board of trustees for the orphanage’s foundation, misappropriated foundation funds.

The Mixa case came on top of revelations that in the 1980s, church authorities, including German-born Pope Benedict XVI, who at the time, as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, headed the Bavarian archdiocese of Munich and Freising, oversaw the reinstatement of a priest accused of molesting boys in a northern German parish. Upon resuming pastoral duties, the priest committed further abuses for years before being removed from his post for good.

Other accusations concerning physical and sexual abuse emerged almost daily early last year, including charges that Benedict’s older brother, a senior priest in Bavaria, had manhandled minors. Benedict was also seen as personally implicated in his past role as head of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which led investigations into abuse before he assumed the papacy in 2005.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#4 Aug 27, 2012
T McCabe wrote:
Here some more numbers on membership drops around the world ...
... which have nothing to do with "Empty Episcopal Parishes cost Dioceses Million$"

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#5 Aug 27, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... which have nothing to do with "Empty Episcopal Parishes cost Dioceses Million$"
So what?

Ever wonder how many tens of Millions the empty parishes of the RCC are costing?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#6 Aug 28, 2012
RevKen wrote:
... Ever wonder how many tens of Millions the empty parishes of the RCC are costing?
Not when I'm posting on the Topix Episcopal Church forum.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#7 Aug 28, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Not when I'm posting on the Topix Episcopal Church forum.
LMAO!

Facts are non sectarian, just like Topix.........

;-)

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#8 Aug 28, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO!
Facts are non sectarian ...
... but posters can still be off-topic.

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#9 Aug 29, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Not when I'm posting on the Topix Episcopal Church forum.
Hypocrite! You’re the one always saying TOPIX is non-sectarian.
George

Jacksonville, FL

#10 Aug 29, 2012
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
Hypocrite! You’re the one always saying TOPIX is non-sectarian.
What in the world has that to do with a post about the RCC being OFF TOPIC in a discussion about empty EPISCOPAGAN parishes???? Oh by the way and lest I forget, Shell Oil Co. signs are yellow.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#11 Aug 29, 2012
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
Hypocrite! You’re the one always saying TOPIX is non-sectarian.
Yet another non sequitur remark.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#12 Aug 30, 2012
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
Hypocrite! You’re the one always saying TOPIX is non-sectarian.
It only works for him and his girlfriend Georgiakins.

Hypocrite is right and obtuse....

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#13 Aug 30, 2012
George wrote:
<quoted text>
What in the world has that to do with a post about the RCC being OFF TOPIC in a discussion about empty EPISCOPAGAN parishes???? Oh by the way and lest I forget, Shell Oil Co. signs are yellow.
I'm sorry you and Joe fail to recognize the facts - or refuse to recognize them.

The article reads, "Slowly, the truth begins to emerge."

What a crock! These trends have been known for 40 years. In fact, both of you are examples of people, who for various reasons, have migrated to different Churches, becoming a part of these statistics. Furthermore, if you don't think that the RCC is experiencing parallel scenarios, you are ignorant.

These facts are not "off-topic" at all. Drawing parallels and investigating similar conditions is part of developing understanding of an issue.

If these conditions are costing TEC $millions, they are costing the RCC Tens or Hundreds of $millions.

Money is neither the answer and cure nor the cause. Real estate is not the problem. Sure, a solution to stopping the financial hemorraging must be sought.

But, TEC is doing the right thing. It is reinventing its cause for being by addressing its internalized hypocrisies and bigotries in Light of the Teachings of Christ Jesus.

The results of this effort and commitment will very necessarily pare down and weed out those, like yourselves, who do not wish to confront the personal inconsistencies that these hypocrisies represent.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#14 Aug 30, 2012
RevKen wrote:
These facts are not "off-topic" at all. Drawing parallels and investigating similar conditions is part of developing understanding of an issue ...
... unless these facts are used as a dodge to avoid more immediate and relevant facts re TEC.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#15 Aug 30, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... unless these facts are used as a dodge to avoid more immediate and relevant facts re TEC.
Well, they are not being used as a dodge.

They are being used as a conditional context, to put the phenomenon of the thread topic observation into a reasonably proper perspective.

Again, real estate and the cost of maintaining that real estate, though important to many, is not what actually drives, motivates or defines any Christian denominational faith, including either the RCC or TEC or any other.

What defines any and every Christian denominational faith, including the RCC and TEC and the whole of Christianity, is the simple statement by Jesus, Himself.

"Whenever two or three are gathered together in my name, there shall I be, also."

All else is fru fru, gimcrack, bling, pomp & circumstance, bloviation and expense, vibrating in microphone-assisted, videoscreen-backed, incense-burning echo. It is an elaborate phylactery designed to occupy the senses and temporarily assuage doubt.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#16 Aug 30, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, they are not being used as a dodge.
They are being used as a conditional context, to put the phenomenon of the thread topic observation into a reasonably proper perspective ...
... in other words, a dodge.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#17 Aug 30, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... in other words, a dodge.
LMFAO!!!!.....(The F stands for Friar)

Absolutely not!

Any suggestion that the cost of maintenance of real estate is the core of Christian faith - as YOU have suggested - is your own dodge. Especially a dodge when the VirtueOnline piece that you have quoted is about ALL Church real estate in the Philadelphia area, and with the shuttered TEC properties as only 9 out of 300!

Let the reader of this post understand that the original poster of the thread topic, Joe DeCaro, is desperately defending his baseless reason for putting the thread topic up in the first place. Then when he gets called onto the mat for his own folly, he tries to blame somebody else.

YOU, Joe DeCaro, are the one doing the DODGING, by suggesting, out of context, that the success of TEC is any more or less established in following the Teachings and Directives of Christ Jesus as a result of the maintenance of its real estate!

What a crock!

We are, however, fully required to be good stewards of what has been provided to us, including being responsible maintainers of our Church properties. This is expensive work. As the article in the VirtueOnline segment read, the 300 available empty Church properties of ALL denominations in the Philadelphia area do not have many willing and able buyers.

LOL!!!.... Nice try, Joe "Boom Boom." But, no cigar and no point to be made in your favor for having no point in the first place.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#18 Aug 30, 2012
RevKen wrote:
Let the reader of this post understand that the original poster of the thread topic, Joe DeCaro, is desperately defending his baseless reason for putting the thread topic up in the first place ...
How's this poster's "baseless reason"?
Listen to the Word wrote:
In the article, the "lack of a gospel witness" is used to describe the churches that have been closed. The reality is that most of them closed because, like TEC, they lacked a gospel witness while open ...

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#19 Aug 31, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
LMFAO!!!!.....(The F stands for Friar)
Absolutely not!
Any suggestion that the cost of maintenance of real estate is the core of Christian faith - as YOU have suggested - is your own dodge. Especially a dodge when the VirtueOnline piece that you have quoted is about ALL Church real estate in the Philadelphia area, and with the shuttered TEC properties as only 9 out of 300!
Let the reader of this post understand that the original poster of the thread topic, Joe DeCaro, is desperately defending his baseless reason for putting the thread topic up in the first place. Then when he gets called onto the mat for his own folly, he tries to blame somebody else.
YOU, Joe DeCaro, are the one doing the DODGING, by suggesting, out of context, that the success of TEC is any more or less established in following the Teachings and Directives of Christ Jesus as a result of the maintenance of its real estate!
What a crock!
We are, however, fully required to be good stewards of what has been provided to us, including being responsible maintainers of our Church properties. This is expensive work. As the article in the VirtueOnline segment read, the 300 available empty Church properties of ALL denominations in the Philadelphia area do not have many willing and able buyers.
LOL!!!.... Nice try, Joe "Boom Boom." But, no cigar and no point to be made in your favor for having no point in the first place.
Rev. Ken
Brilliant and once again, right over his obtuse head.........

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#20 Aug 31, 2012
RevKen wrote:
We are, however, fully required to be good stewards of what has been provided to us, including being responsible maintainers of our Church properties. This is expensive work ...
... especially after Schori and her lawyers evict all the orthodox Christians, leaving only the dross.

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