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401 - 420 of 4,130 Comments Last updated Sep 29, 2013

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#538 Feb 27, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>A HETEROSEXUAL JEWISH RABBI LOOKS AT THE BIBLE'S VIEWPOINT ON HOMOSEXUALITY
HEALING THE SO-CALLED "TEXTS OF TERROR" - A REINTERPRETATION OF THE SUPPOSED PROHIBITION ON HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES
AS THERE IS NO REASON, BIBLICAL, ETHICAL NOR MORAL, TO CONTINUE TO DENY ANY CIVIL RIGHTS TO GAYS AND LESBIANS, ESPECIALLY IN TODAY'S WORLD. ALL HONORABLE PEOPLE SHOULD STAND IN SUPPORT OF GRANTING EQUALITY OF ALL LEGAL AND CIVIL RIGHTS TO GAYS AND LESBIANS.
As a result of his early teaching to continually wrestle with the Sacred texts and to seek to bring the texts into relevence in the modern world, since 1994, Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill has been seriously involved in a compassionate study of the so-called "anti-homosexual" verses found in the Book of Leviticus. He has searched extensively in the Hebrew Scriptures, in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in both the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds, and in other Jewish historical writings.
With the help of not only his own Jewish sources, but also those of Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox and Latin Rite linguists and scholars, plus an LDS (Mormon) Biblical Languages student at Emory University, Rabbi Gershon Steinberg-Caudill has also been able to study original translations of the Hebrew, Greek and Latin texts.
This serious study has also involved reviewing the various Biblical manuscripts and translations, Talmudic responsa texts and other materials of a collateral nature to the subject matter being studied; i. e. history, anthropology, archaeology, philology, etymology, etc. It has required, often times, an attempt to reconstruct the ancient mindset of the pre-Babylonian conquest (586 BCE) Israelite people.
As a result of this serious research, Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill is completely convinced that THE ORIGINAL HEBREW TEXTS OF THE TORAH (the Hebrew Chumash - the Five Books of Moses) HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SAY CONCERNING HOMOSEXUALITY AS WE UNDERSTAND THE TERM "HOMOSEXUALITY" TO MEAN IN TODAYS WORLD!
http://home.earthlink.net/~ecorebbe/id18.html
<><
You posted this mindless garbage before and I refuted it then. There is NO, ZERO,NONE evidence cited just this clown's unsupported opinion that some other clown's opinion is right. He saya, "Some rabbi named Steinberg-Caudill read this, that and the other and based on his superior intellect and vaunted opinion the original texts etc. etc. say nothing about homosexuality."

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

Austin, TX

#539 Feb 27, 2013
How can a gay be a Christian??
Same as anyone else I guess.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#540 Feb 27, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>A HETEROSEXUAL JEWISH RABBI LOOKS AT THE BIBLE'S VIEWPOINT ON HOMOSEXUALITY...
<><
Please note I quoted directly from the primary source, the Talmud, and you quoted [1] one clown talking about some other [2] clown who supposedly read [3] the primary source, the Talmud, and gives us his third hand opinion. And the second clown does NOT cite any primary sources whatsoever. But hey according to one insurance ad, "They can't put anything on the internet that isn't true."

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#541 Feb 27, 2013
Allen Richards:
In the discussion below, we begin with a statement on homosexuality written by the foremost modern authority on the Book of Leviticus, Rabbi Jacob Milgrom. Following that very interesting statement, will be added the opinions and viewpoints of Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill, followed by the opinion of his teacher and Rav, Rabbi Gershon Winkler. That opinion is then followed with an article by Rabbi Michael Lerner.
The four Bible scholars and teachers quoted below have each come to a slightly different conclusion about whether homosexuality is actually prohibited in the text and time period of the Torah.

* Rabbi Jacob Milgrom says that, YES, the Bible prohibits homosexual behavior. However, only in the land of Israel and only for males, and, possibly, only in certain interfamily relationships.

* Rabbi Gershon Steinberg-Caudill believes that the so-called "homosexual" act in the Bible that is prohibited is actually an act of HETEROSEXUAL SUBSTITUTION of a male in place of a female by a heterosexual male, and, possibly, may even need to be done in an idolatrous worship scenario.

Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill posits that even if Moses taught that God did command against homosexuality in the Torah (which Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill does not believe that God did), that command, like other commandments that Moses claimed as God given Torah commands, such as the command to kill the "stubborn and rebellious" son (Deuteronomy 21: 18-21), the rabbis negated totally a century after the beginning of the Christian era. The Talmudic rabbis declared that God did not say such a command through Moses. Similarly, any vestige of a supposed Torah prohibition against homosexuality also would need to be negated for this new day and age.

Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill believes that the Hebrew word that orginally conveyed the concept of what we today refer to as "homosexual" is the word &#1505;&#1512;&#14 97;&#1505; (saris), commonly translated "eunuch".

Simply put, homosexuality is defined as a man desiring another man for his sexual partner. In ancient times, a eunuch was chosen to guard the king's harem. The eunuch could be trusted to guard a king's harem, often because he had been castrated and could not produce offspring.
But, the question is raised, did the king just not want other men producing offspring with his wives, or did he really want a guard that did not desire to have sex with the king's wives? It is my contention that what the English translators thought of as a EUNUCH, in many cases, was what the ancient Israelites thought of as equal to what we today would call a homosexual. Who better to guard the harem than a man who has no sexual desire for a woman?
A castrated man (the traditional eunuch) would still be capable of having the desire to have sex with the king’s wives. A eunuch for the sake of heaven is a man who believes that the Kingdom of God is coming soon and therefore if he punishes himself by vowing to refrain from all sexual contact, an act that he sees as quite pleasurable, he will help hasten the coming of the Kingdom.
* Rabbi Gershon Winkler states in his article (found in the middle of the page) his belief that the only "homosexual" act that is prohibited by the Torah is anal sex, and that female homosexuality; lesbianism, is permitted by the Torah.
* Rabbi Michael Lerner's article is found towards the bottom of the page.
-That we may disagree on minor issues related to this very important subject is to be expected. In fact, Judaism encourages sincere dispute and amicable dialogue. It is our obligation as Jews to question and wrestle with the use of these Torah texts in the continued discrimination of gays and lesbians. And, it is most important to see where we agree, not so much where we disagree.
http://home.earthlink.net/~ecorebbe/id18.html

*Stomping your feet and jumping up and down does not constitute 'refuting'.

“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#542 Feb 27, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but you'd be wrong......violate the laws of this Country and see who punishes you!!!
We are not a Theocracy......we are a Republic form of Government!!!!
There are some people who seem to keep forgetting that.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#543 Feb 27, 2013
Earth Child 1 wrote:
<quoted text>There are some people who seem to keep forgetting that.
Yeppers.......you got mail by the way!!!

“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#544 Feb 27, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeppers.......you got mail by the way!!!
Got it........
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#545 Feb 27, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
Allen Richards:
In the discussion below, we begin with a statement on homosexuality written by the foremost modern authority on the Book of Leviticus, Rabbi Jacob Milgrom. Following that very interesting statement, will be added the opinions and viewpoints of Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill, followed by the opinion of his teacher and Rav, Rabbi Gershon Winkler. That opinion is then followed with an article by Rabbi Michael Lerner.
The four Bible scholars and teachers quoted below have each come to a slightly different conclusion about whether homosexuality is actually prohibited in the text and time period of the Torah.
* Rabbi Jacob Milgrom says that, YES, the Bible prohibits homosexual behavior. However, only in the land of Israel and only for males, and, possibly, only in certain interfamily relationships.
........
*Stomping your feet and jumping up and down does not constitute 'refuting'.
I gotta call irrelevant B.S.

I'm not a reformed Jewish apologetic and I don't think you are either.
I'm Catholic and believe Jesus fulfilled The Law, he didn't eliminate it.
Homosexuality is not an accepted Christian behavior.
But just like one addicted to drugs or alcohol, one who has been a thief, adulterer, slanderer, yea; even murderer, we can all be Christians by repenting and changing to meet The Lord's standards.

Since: Jun 07

Spring Hill, FL

#546 Feb 27, 2013
Ant wrote:
-Most Gays just quote Jesus tells us to love one another and says Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 is out of context even though every since bible says man to lie with man is an abomination. All of Lev 18 is about wrongful Sexual Relations
-Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 clearly states homosexuality is wrong.
I most respectfully submit that Lev 18:22 (KJV) does not say “man lie with man is an abomination,” but rather “Thou [man] shalt not lie with mankind ... it is abomination,” and that Lev 20:13 says,“If a man also lie with mankind... both of them have committed an abomination,” right?
So, as you can clearly see, neither of these passages say “man lie with man,” but rather both are referring to “man lying with mankind.” So, in order for us to discern the exegesis meaning of these verses, we must understand the difference between the words “man” and “mankind,” rather than assume both words refers to a man, in my humble opinion.
Ant wrote:
-You being attracted to the same sex may not be a sin, but when you engage in your same sex acts with each other, that falls under the category of sexual immorality, which is sex outside of marriage when you go from one person to the next and this applies today and straight people.
Just in case you did not know, I am a heterosexual male who do not have any sexual interest in another man. At any rate, here is a newsflash for you: The bible does not say that sex outside of a marriage is a sin. And if you disagree, that is fine. However, if you wish to refute my claim, please offer the specific passage that will substantiate your claim.
Ant wrote:
-There is no way straight people are wrong and considered sexually immoral by biblical standards when they go from one person to the next, but homosexuals are supposed to get a free pass on having sex with who they want because they feel God made them this way....YOU CANT BE SERIOUS.
With all due respect, it appears that you are making church doctrinal claims as opposed to scriptural ones. After all, Abram not only had sex outside of a marriage, but a son as well. And God both blessed and made this alleged bastard son a great nation, according to the scripture. But please do not take my word for it, but rather read it for yourself:

“And he [Abram] went in unto Hagar, and she conceived”(Gen 16:4).

“And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael”(Gen 16:15).

“And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation”(Gen 17:20).

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#547 Feb 27, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
Allen Richards:
In the discussion below,*** Mindless copy/paste omitted***from *Stomping your feet and jumping up and down does not constitute 'refuting'.
<><
Repeating mindless copy/paste does not make it authoritative. Just because some anonymous "Jew" says another anonymous "Jew" is an authority does not make it so. Guess someone is too ignorant or to stupid to know I did more than supposedly stomping my feet. I quoted from the Jewish Talmud. You just quoted some anonymous website online.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#548 Feb 27, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
I gotta call irrelevant B.S.
I'm not a reformed Jewish apologetic and I don't think you are either.
I'm Catholic and believe Jesus fulfilled The Law, he didn't eliminate it.
Homosexuality is not an accepted Christian behavior.
But just like one addicted to drugs or alcohol, one who has been a thief, adulterer, slanderer, yea; even murderer, we can all be Christians by repenting and changing to meet The Lord's standards.
Really?
Between 51-75% of American Catholics now support same-sex marriage.

Being homosexual, bisexual, lesbian, or heterosexual are not sins.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#549 Feb 27, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
Repeating mindless copy/paste does not make it authoritative. Just because some anonymous "Jew" says another anonymous "Jew" is an authority does not make it so. Guess someone is too ignorant or to stupid to know I did more than supposedly stomping my feet. I quoted from the Jewish Talmud. You just quoted some anonymous website online.
Jacob Milgrom spent most of his career at the University of California, Berkeley, where he headed the Department of Near Eastern Studies. He was known for his research on Biblical purity laws and considered the world's leading expert on Leviticus.[3]

After retiring in 1994, Milgrom and his wife Jo immigrated to Israel. He died in Jerusalem in June 2010.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Milgrom

Rabbi Gershon Winkler [1] was born in Denmark in 1949. He was ordained as a rabbi by the late Kabbalistic Master Rabbi Eleizer Bentsion of Novhordok (Russia) in Jerusalem. Gershon Winkler is a widely recognized scholar in the fields of Jewish law, lore, history, theology, and mysticism. Gershon is a charismatic teacher whose lifestyle is as unconventional as is his mindset. His non-mainstream exploits have won him media recognition, including a front page feature in the Wall Street Journal,[2] a segment on the PBS series Religion and Ethics Newsweekly, and detailed coverage in Israel’s Ha’aretz, Chayyim Acherim Magazine, and The Jerusalem Post.[3] Gershon has also served as spiritual teacher and life-cycle facilitator for Jewish communities across New Mexico, Colorado, and Montana.

In 1997, he founded the Walkingstick Foundation a nonprofit organization dedicated to the recovery and preservation of indigenous Jewish spirituality — currently headquartered in Southern California.

Gershon Winkler is author of over 14 books, most famous being :

Daily Kabbalah: Wisdom from the Tree of Life (North Atlantic Books), Sacred Secrets: The Sanctity of Sex in Jewish Law and Lore (Jason Aronson)
The Soul of the Matter: A Jewish-Kabbalistic Perspective on the Human Soul Before, During, and After Life (Judaica Pr)
Travels with the Evil Inclination: A Rabble-Rousing Renegade Rabbi's Story (North Atlantic Books)
The Judeo-Christian Fiction (Lulu)
The Golem of Prague: A New Adaptation of the Documented Stories of the Golem of Prague (Judaica Pr), Secret of Sambatyon (Judaica Youth Series)(JudaicaPr)
Cabala 365/ Kabbalah 365: Un Fruto Del Arbol De La Vida Para Cada Dia/Daily Fruit from the Tree of Life (Spanish Edition)(Norma SA Editorial)
The Sacred Stones: The Return of the Golem (Judaica Pr) Magic of the Ordinary: Recovering the Shamanic in Judaism (North Atlantic Books)
Rabbi Gershon Winkler is member of the Association on Independent Rabbis and the World Spirituality Council [4] along with Deepak Chopra and other notables.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gershon_Winkler

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#550 Feb 27, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
Repeating mindless copy/paste does not make it authoritative. Just because some anonymous "Jew" says another anonymous "Jew" is an authority does not make it so. Guess someone is too ignorant or to stupid to know I did more than supposedly stomping my feet. I quoted from the Jewish Talmud. You just quoted some anonymous website online.
Those Rabbis are not anonymous, hon.

Since: Jun 07

Spring Hill, FL

#551 Feb 27, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
Where did you get the goofy idea that Abraham's wife Sara was his sister?
That is completely wrong!
Gen.11:27&29&31-
"These are the descendants of Terah.
Terah begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran, and Haran begot Lot.
Abram and Nahor took wives; the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai, and the name of Nahor’s wife was Milcah, daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah and Iscah.
Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot, son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and brought them out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to go to the land of Canaan. But when they reached Haran, they settled there."
Terah is Abram's father and Terah calls Abram's wife 'his daughter-in-law'.
Terah does not call Sara his daughter.
Pretty straight forward.
How much else are you misinterpreting from The Bible?
Well, let us see if I misinterpreted that Abraham and Sarah were siblings because they had the same father, but different mothers, versus my claim being a “goofy idea” as follows:

“And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah”(Gen 20:2).

“ And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing? And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife”(Gen 20:10-12).

Well, I interpret Gen 20:2 to mean that Abraham told King Abimelech that Sara was his sister without mentioning the fact that she was also his wife. And at Gen 20:10, the king questioned why he did this. Further, at Gen 20:11, Abraham said he did because thought that the king would kill him for his wife. However, at Gen 20:12, Abraham then told the king that Sarah was “indeed” his sister because they shared the same biological father, but different mothers (smile).
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#552 Feb 27, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Really?
Between 51-75% of American Catholics now support same-sex marriage.
Being homosexual, bisexual, lesbian, or heterosexual are not sins.
Individual opinions of alleged Catholics don't change dogma.
Prove your suppositions with a reliable citation of authority.

Catholic Catechism has not changed, homosexuality is not acceptable as a lifestyle.
I heard our bishop speak on this subject just the other day.

You fall short on come-uppance.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you can't have your own truth.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#553 Feb 27, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Individual opinions of alleged Catholics don't change dogma.
Prove your suppositions with a reliable citation of authority.
Catholic Catechism has not changed, homosexuality is not acceptable as a lifestyle.
I heard our bishop speak on this subject just the other day.
You fall short on come-uppance.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but you can't have your own truth.
I, along with the majority of American Catholics, am following my own moral conscience.
No one is trying to change dogma.
Church Dogma does not regulate our nation's laws.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#554 Feb 27, 2013
gundee123 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, let us see if I misinterpreted that Abraham and Sarah were siblings because they had the same father, but different mothers, versus my claim being a “goofy idea” as follows:
“And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah”(Gen 20:2).
“ And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing? And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife”(Gen 20:10-12).

Well, I interpret Gen 20:2 to mean that Abraham told King Abimelech that Sara was his sister without mentioning the fact that she was also his wife. And at Gen 20:10, the king questioned why he did this. Further, at Gen 20:11, Abraham said he did because thought that the king would kill him for his wife. However, at Gen 20:12, Abraham then told the king that Sarah was “indeed” his sister because they shared the same biological father, but different mothers (smile).
If you are so naive and misunderstanding by self-taught scripture reading, get to a teacher.

Abram misrepresented, Lied, about Sara being his sister out of fear for his life.
It was the same subterfuge he used when entering Egypt.
Migrants are typically wary of the power-that-be in the land they enter.

To wit:
Gen. 12:10-13
"There was famine in the land; so Abram went down to Egypt to sojourn there, since the famine in the land was severe.

When he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai:
“I know that you are a beautiful woman. When the Egyptians see you, they will say,‘She is his wife’; then they will kill me, but let you live.
Please say, therefore, that you are my sister,
so that I may fare well on your account and my life may be spared for your sake.”

The text does not try to excuse Abraham’s deception, though in 20:12 a similar deception is somewhat excused.

If you have this much difficulty understanding Genesis, you are going to really get screwed-up with the rest of the Bible books.
Pretty soon you'll start thinking homosexuality is excused.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#555 Feb 27, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>I, along with the majority of American Catholics, am following my own moral conscience.
No one is trying to change dogma.

Church Dogma does not regulate our nation's laws.
Give to caesar what is caesar's and to God what is God's.

God showed us a moral conscience that guides one to everlasting life.
The individual's moral conscience lead them where they desire.

What controls YOUR free will?

Fear of man or fear of God?

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#556 Feb 27, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Give to caesar what is caesar's and to God what is God's.
God showed us a moral conscience that guides one to everlasting life.
The individual's moral conscience lead them where they desire.
What controls YOUR free will?
Fear of man or fear of God?
Don't you know what Free Will is?

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#557 Feb 27, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Give to caesar what is caesar's and to God what is God's.
God showed us a moral conscience that guides one to everlasting life.
The individual's moral conscience lead them where they desire.
What controls YOUR free will?
Fear of man or fear of God?
Of course, the Roman Catholic Church bases its teaching on homosexuality on its interpretation of natural law, arguing that all sex acts must take place within the state of marriage and must have the potential to procreate.

But the Catholic imagination sees God everywhere, believes that God reveals Godself in all things and understands God can work through any human being or human relationship. By insisting that genital complementarity is an absolute requirement for marriage, the hierarchy places limits on God's power to work within all of the relationships of all God's beloved children.

Those who possess a sacramental view of the world often realize that any human person or relationship that brings love, mercy, forgiveness, kindness, generosity or faithfulness into the world is a sign of God's grace. Perhaps this is the reason so many Catholics defend marriage equality: They have recognized these graces can come forth as much through same-sex couples as heterosexual couples. Those who have a Catholic imagination recognize that a couple's ability to enter into a marriage commitment is not contingent on their anatomies, but on the depth, strength and fruitfulness of their bond.

Given their sacramental view of the world, it is little wonder that so many Catholics dissent from the bishops' disparaging characterization of LGBT persons and same-sex relationships. The hierarchy's position simply does not do justice to the power of the Catholic imagination.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/why-...

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