How can a gay be a Christian??

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#513 Feb 25, 2013
Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
Most writings from early church father do say abortions are wrong.Same with male on male sexual acts but female on female sexual behavior was essentially ignored.
Then again these same early church father wrote about which saint's days were the best for Bloodletting.
<><
More unsupported bulk wrap.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#514 Feb 25, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
Your argument is meaningless and irrelevant. It is a logical fallacy, argument from ignorance. There are many things Christ did not mention. I know from the Talmud that the Jews before, during and after the time of Christ believed that God prohibited Homosexual acts and that death was the penalty and Jesus never changed that. Next argument from the church of satan?
No, my argument is right. The radical religious republican right argues that gays are an abomination to God. However, they quote Jewish Priests, not God.

Christ's teachings are what is followed by Christians, not jewish priest laws. Nor Jewish laws.

So, IF God said homosexuals are an abomination and God made his word Flesh to walk about men and spread his word, Christ would have said it. He DIDN'T say homosexuals were anything...and he had no opinion on abortion, either.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#515 Feb 25, 2013
Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
Most writings from early church father do say abortions are wrong.Same with male on male sexual acts but female on female sexual behavior was essentially ignored.
Then again these same early church father wrote about which saint's days were the best for Bloodletting.
The Jewish law is not a Christian doctrine. The newest spin from the fundies is that OT is as important as the NT. However, NO Christian, let alone Jew, follows the laws of the OT anymore..not all of them.....and Christians don't have the Sabbath on Friday night through Saturday night.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#516 Feb 25, 2013
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
No, my argument is right. The radical religious republican right argues that gays are an abomination to God. However, they quote Jewish Priests, not God.
Christ's teachings are what is followed by Christians, not jewish priest laws. Nor Jewish laws.
So, IF God said homosexuals are an abomination and God made his word Flesh to walk about men and spread his word, Christ would have said it. He DIDN'T say homosexuals were anything...and he had no opinion on abortion, either.
<><
Jesus did NOT abrogate the law. He said not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law until all be fulfilled. The injunction against homosexual acts was reiterated several times in the NT. As I said Jesus did not change them. Only the dietary laws and ceremonial laws were abrogated in the NT. Murder, lying, adultery and homosexual acts are still enjoined.

Your arguments are no more valid than the scribblings on a public rest room wall.

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#517 Feb 25, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
Jesus did NOT abrogate the law. He said not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law until all be fulfilled. The injunction against homosexual acts was reiterated several times in the NT. As I said Jesus did not change them. Only the dietary laws and ceremonial laws were abrogated in the NT. Murder, lying, adultery and homosexual acts are still enjoined.
Your arguments are no more valid than the scribblings on a public rest room wall.
You mean like:
"for a good time, call kookie 1.800.NUT.JOBB

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#518 Feb 25, 2013
WOW, 2 posts...nothing like cheap soliciting...
Cisco Kid

Jamestown, CA

#519 Feb 25, 2013
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
No, my argument is right. The radical religious republican right argues that gays are an abomination to God. However, they quote Jewish Priests, not God.
Christ's teachings are what is followed by Christians, not jewish priest laws. Nor Jewish laws.

So, IF God said homosexuals are an abomination and God made his word Flesh to walk about men and spread his word, Christ would have said it. He DIDN'T say homosexuals were anything...and he had no opinion on abortion, either.
Jesus didn't make any direct comments condemning Drunk Driving or mass shootings at elementary schools either.
Does that make those activities okay?

A certain amount of reasoning keeps the spirit of context intact.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#520 Feb 27, 2013
How can a gay be a Christian??

Well, from what I understand, in order to be gay, a male person must not only exclusively be sexually attracted to another male, but also either suppress, act on, and/or struggle with that feeling. On the other hand, in order to a Christian, a person must accept Jesus the Christ as his or her Savior and follow His teachings. Thus, I personally think that a person can do both.

Now, many people who argue that a gay cannot be a Christian do so either based on a teaching/personal conviction or because of what is written in the scripture at Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13. Many also claim that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of homosexuality. Notwithstanding, others argue that God anatomically designed all relationship to be between species of the opposite sex for if nothing else-- reproductive purposes, e.g., Adam and Eve, Noah brought sons and wives, as well as male and female animals on the ark.

In the past, I have studied, researched, and debated these issues. Nonetheless, I am by no means a subject matter expert, nor do I wish to present myself as such. On the other hand, I look forward to joining in this debate from time to time, offering evidence to support why I think that a person can be both gay and a Christian.

For those who do not know me, I am a non-Christian heterosexual male who has no interest in being a homosexual, but much interest in standing with them in their fight against bigotry and ignorance. Please know that I am not suggesting that “everyone” who is against homosexuality is either a bigot or ignorant, but rather that these are two underlying reasons why many (if not most) homosexuals are denied their right to love whom they please in a non- hostile environment, in my humble opinion. Further, I am not an affiliate of any religion, organized or otherwise. However, I was raised up in the Southern Baptist faith.

By the way, my very good friend Allen Richards claimed that “The burdne [sic] of proof to present evidence lies with the person who makes the assertion”(post #512). However, I most respectfully disagree and assert that the burden of proof first lies with the party that takes the affirmative position on the particular issue.

Now, since I am taking the affirmative position on this issue, I will start by saying that Jesus explicitly informed us of what one must do in order to have eternal life, which in my humble opinion, is one of the most important benefits of being a Christian. And from what I understand, Jesus said to keep the commandments, help the poor, and follow Him. So, unless there is a scriptural counterargument that gays are automatically disqualifies from doing what Jesus said, then I am going to conclude that the burden has not shifted (smile).
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#521 Feb 27, 2013
The problem with the whole gay argument is Jesus says love one another, but they disregard the rest of what the bible commands. Even in the end we are required to obey God, here is an example is Revelations

Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So this is proof, you must be saved by faith in Jesus and obey the commands of God and homosexuality is listed as a sin in Gods law. There is no way around this, homosexuality is sexual immorality which applies to gay and straight folks who are having sex with one person after the other. The bible only sees marriages as man & woman, so gay marriage will never be okay in the eyes of God. Gods laws will always be greater than mans laws.
Paul

Indianapolis, IN

#522 Feb 27, 2013
There is no such thing as a gay Christian! Gays is against the laws of God it tells us that in the Bible!
Paul

Indianapolis, IN

#523 Feb 27, 2013
Ant wrote:
The problem with the whole gay argument is Jesus says love one another, but they disregard the rest of what the bible commands. Even in the end we are required to obey God, here is an example is Revelations
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
So this is proof, you must be saved by faith in Jesus and obey the commands of God and homosexuality is listed as a sin in Gods law. There is no way around this, homosexuality is sexual immorality which applies to gay and straight folks who are having sex with one person after the other. The bible only sees marriages as man & woman, so gay marriage will never be okay in the eyes of God. Gods laws will always be greater than mans laws.
A very good comment thank you!

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#524 Feb 27, 2013
Ant wrote:
The problem with the whole gay argument is Jesus says love one another, but they disregard the rest of what the bible commands.
If I may very respectfully ask,“What specifically is disregarded as it relates to the bible?” If you would be so kind, please quote the specific scripture.
Ant wrote:
Even in the end we are required to obey God, here is an example is Revelations
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Yes, I agree that Jesus directed a man who wanted eternal life [i.e., to be save] to “keep the commandments.”
Ant wrote:
So this is proof, you must be saved by faith in Jesus and obey the commands of God and homosexuality is listed as a sin in Gods law.
With all due respect, please quote the specific passage in the scripture that listed homosexuality as a sin, if you would be so kind.
Ant wrote:
There is no way around this, homosexuality is sexual immorality which applies to gay and straight folks who are having sex with one person after the other.
Again, please cite the specific scripture that substantiate your claim that “homosexuality is sexual immorality.
Ant wrote:
The bible only sees marriages as man & woman, so gay marriage will never be okay in the eyes of God. Gods laws will always be greater than mans laws.
Wow! If God only saw Abraham and Sara, which was his sister, as a marriage between a man & a women, then perhaps, you can explain why God blessed the son that Abraham fathered with his handmaid (Sara).
By the way, I still await for you to share the specific part of God's law that prohibits homosexuality, if you would be so kind.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#525 Feb 27, 2013
Paul wrote:
There is no such thing as a gay Christian! Gays is against the laws of God it tells us that in the Bible!
If you would be so kind, please quote where specifically in the bible that being gay is against God's laws.
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#530 Feb 27, 2013
gundee123 wrote:
<quoted text>
If I may very respectfully ask,“What specifically is disregarded as it relates to the bible?” If you would be so kind, please quote the specific scripture.
<quoted text>
Yes, I agree that Jesus directed a man who wanted eternal life [i.e., to be save] to “keep the commandments.”
<quoted text>
With all due respect, please quote the specific passage in the scripture that listed homosexuality as a sin, if you would be so kind.
<quoted text>
Again, please cite the specific scripture that substantiate your claim that “homosexuality is sexual immorality.
<quoted text>
Wow! If God only saw Abraham and Sara, which was his sister, as a marriage between a man & a women, then perhaps, you can explain why God blessed the son that Abraham fathered with his handmaid (Sara).
By the way, I still await for you to share the specific part of God's law that prohibits homosexuality, if you would be so kind.
-Most Gays just quote Jesus tells us to love one another and says Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 is out of context even though every since bible says man to lie with man is an abomination. All of Lev 18 is about wrongful Sexual Relations

-Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 clearly states homosexuality is wrong.

-You being attracted to the same sex may not be a sin, but when you engage in your same sex acts with each other, that falls under the category of sexual immorality, which is sex outside of marriage when you go from one person to the next and this applies today and straight people.

-There is no way straight people are wrong and considered sexually immoral by biblical standards when they go from one person to the next, but homosexuals are supposed to get a free pass on having sex with who they want because they feel God made them this way....YOU CANT BE SERIOUS.

“Maiden of Mayhem”

Since: May 08

OMFUG

#531 Feb 27, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
-Most Gays just quote Jesus tells us to love one another and says Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 is out of context even though every since bible says man to lie with man is an abomination. All of Lev 18 is about wrongful Sexual Relations
-Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 clearly states homosexuality is wrong.
-You being attracted to the same sex may not be a sin, but when you engage in your same sex acts with each other, that falls under the category of sexual immorality, which is sex outside of marriage when you go from one person to the next and this applies today and straight people.
-There is no way straight people are wrong and considered sexually immoral by biblical standards when they go from one person to the next, but homosexuals are supposed to get a free pass on having sex with who they want because they feel God made them this way....YOU CANT BE SERIOUS.
So you're saying you need a piece of paper from the government saying you're married for sex not to be immoral?
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#532 Feb 27, 2013
victoria1 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're saying you need a piece of paper from the government saying you're married for sex not to be immoral?
No, like ive said before, Gods laws are greater than mans laws. if the government made it okay to kill other people now if you dont like them, the bible still says murder is wrong.

When you just go from one person o the next, that is sexual immorality and please dont to try to say there are gays out there who are just having sex with one person. Once that relationship doesnt work, they move right to the next person.

If homosexuals want to have sex with the same sex fine, but dont try to back it by scriptures, but it will fail everytime.
Cisco Kid

Jamestown, CA

#533 Feb 27, 2013
gundee123 wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! If God only saw Abraham and Sara, which was his sister, as a marriage between a man & a women, then perhaps, you can explain why God blessed the son that Abraham fathered with his handmaid (Sara).
.
Where did you get the goofy idea that Abraham's wife Sara was his sister?
That is completely wrong!

Gen.11:27&29&31-

"These are the descendants of Terah.
Terah begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran, and Haran begot Lot.

Abram and Nahor took wives; the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai, and the name of Nahor’s wife was Milcah, daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah and Iscah.

Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot, son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram,
and brought them out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to go to the land of Canaan. But when they reached Haran, they settled there."

Terah is Abram's father and Terah calls Abram's wife 'his daughter-in-law'.
Terah does not call Sara his daughter.
Pretty straight forward.

How much else are you misinterpreting from The Bible?

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#534 Feb 27, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
No, like ive said before, Gods laws are greater than mans laws.
Sorry, but you'd be wrong......violate the laws of this Country and see who punishes you!!!

We are not a Theocracy......we are a Republic form of Government!!!!

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#536 Feb 27, 2013
Troth for Leogere wrote:
<quoted text>Guess you and your scripture lost!.. whine and cry all ya want but you're screwed!
<><
I got a great laugh from this. Do you think the pitiful, pathetic Bissmeier rants on these threads affects anything concerning scripture?

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#537 Feb 27, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
I got a great laugh from this. Do you think the pitiful, pathetic Bissmeier rants on these threads affects anything concerning scripture?
A HETEROSEXUAL JEWISH RABBI LOOKS AT THE BIBLE'S VIEWPOINT ON HOMOSEXUALITY

HEALING THE SO-CALLED "TEXTS OF TERROR" - A REINTERPRETATION OF THE SUPPOSED PROHIBITION ON HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES

AS THERE IS NO REASON, BIBLICAL, ETHICAL NOR MORAL, TO CONTINUE TO DENY ANY CIVIL RIGHTS TO GAYS AND LESBIANS, ESPECIALLY IN TODAY'S WORLD. ALL HONORABLE PEOPLE SHOULD STAND IN SUPPORT OF GRANTING EQUALITY OF ALL LEGAL AND CIVIL RIGHTS TO GAYS AND LESBIANS.

As a result of his early teaching to continually wrestle with the Sacred texts and to seek to bring the texts into relevence in the modern world, since 1994, Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill has been seriously involved in a compassionate study of the so-called "anti-homosexual" verses found in the Book of Leviticus. He has searched extensively in the Hebrew Scriptures, in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in both the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds, and in other Jewish historical writings.

With the help of not only his own Jewish sources, but also those of Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox and Latin Rite linguists and scholars, plus an LDS (Mormon) Biblical Languages student at Emory University, Rabbi Gershon Steinberg-Caudill has also been able to study original translations of the Hebrew, Greek and Latin texts.

This serious study has also involved reviewing the various Biblical manuscripts and translations, Talmudic responsa texts and other materials of a collateral nature to the subject matter being studied; i. e. history, anthropology, archaeology, philology, etymology, etc. It has required, often times, an attempt to reconstruct the ancient mindset of the pre-Babylonian conquest (586 BCE) Israelite people.

As a result of this serious research, Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill is completely convinced that THE ORIGINAL HEBREW TEXTS OF THE TORAH (the Hebrew Chumash - the Five Books of Moses) HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SAY CONCERNING HOMOSEXUALITY AS WE UNDERSTAND THE TERM "HOMOSEXUALITY" TO MEAN IN TODAYS WORLD!
http://home.earthlink.net/~ecorebbe/id18.html

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