How can a gay be a Christian??

Since: Jun 07

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#3185 Apr 8, 2013
Jeff wrote:
Jesus certainly did speak against homosexuality in Mark 7:21 and Matthew 5:32, 19:9 where He uses the word "unchasity" and "immorality" which includes adultery, incest, premarital infidelity, homosexuality, beastiality and any other sexual conduct condemned in the OT. Since Christ is God in the flesh then that means God Himself does speak against it.
Again, homosexuality was not used or referenced in the earliest MSS in which the bible was written. But what I find to be particularly interesting is that in the new versions of the bible, the word homosexuals was put in the mouth of Paul, but not in the mouth of Jesus, right?

_-Alice-_

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#3186 Apr 8, 2013
gundee123 wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, homosexuality was not used or referenced in the earliest MSS in which the bible was written. But what I find to be particularly interesting is that in the new versions of the bible, the word homosexuals was put in the mouth of Paul, but not in the mouth of Jesus, right?
Paul wanted Jesus in his mouth but, alas, Jesus was dead.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#3187 Apr 8, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
And still does...Every child in the womb grows its little body from the food the mother eats...which the mother gets from the crops on the ground , which crops grow from the DIRT.
And when you die ..guess what...your body disintegrates back into dirt..
Science has never found any other material used in a decomposed body..but DIRT.
scripture has always told us the TRUTH.
Well, when one dies either the body is placed in the ground and used to feed certain critters or it is turned to ash if one is cremated.......crops may grow from dirt, but the mother doesn't eat the dirt and therefore the child is NOT created from dirt!!!

A decomposed body is still not dirt.....remember that a dead body has it's fluids removed and Formaldehyde replaces it......I believe it takes many years for the body to decompose and the formaldehyde to dissipate.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#3188 Apr 8, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know the history why it was removed as a mental illness in 1973? Let me give you a hint: it was not based on any research.
What homosexuals have done is to show the way how to hoodwink the system and the public.
Really? Are you sure? Here is some information for ya:
Early in the twentieth century, Ellis (1901) argued that homosexuality was inborn and therefore not immoral, that it was not a disease, and that many homosexuals made outstanding contributions to society (Robinson, 1976).

Sigmund Freud's basic theory of human sexuality was different from that of Ellis. He believed all human beings were innately bisexual, and that they become heterosexual or homosexual as a result of their experiences with parents and others (Freud, 1905). Nevertheless, Freud agreed with Ellis that a homosexual orientation should not be viewed as a form of pathology. In a now-famous letter to an American mother in 1935, Freud wrote:
"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime, and cruelty too....

"If [your son] is unhappy, neurotic, torn by conflicts, inhibited in his social life, analysis may bring him harmony, peace of mind, full efficiency whether he remains a homosexual or gets changed...." (reprinted in Jones, 1957, pp. 208-209, from the American Journal of Psychiatry, 1951, 107, 786).

In a review of published studies comparing homosexual and heterosexual samples on psychological tests, Gonsiorek (1982) found that, although some differences have been observed in test results between homosexuals and heterosexuals, both groups consistently score within the normal range. Gonsiorek concluded that "Homosexuality in and of itself is unrelated to psychological disturbance or maladjustment. Homosexuals as a group are not more psychologically disturbed on account of their homosexuality" (Gonsiorek, 1982, p. 74; see also reviews by Gonsiorek, 1991; Hart, Roback, Tittler, Weitz, Walston & McKee, 1978; Riess, 1980).
Confronted with overwhelming empirical evidence and changing cultural views of homosexuality, psychiatrists and psychologists radically altered their views, beginning in the 1970s.

In 1973, the weight of empirical data, coupled with changing social norms and the development of a politically active gay community in the United States, led the Board of Directors of the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). Some psychiatrists who fiercely opposed their action subsequently circulated a petition calling for a vote on the issue by the Association's membership. That vote was held in 1974, and the Board's decision was ratified.

Some psychologists and psychiatrists still hold negative personal attitudes toward homosexuality. However, empirical evidence and professional norms do not support the idea that homosexuality is a form of mental illness or is inherently linked to psychopathology.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/fa...

I'm certain you will believe that it was removed because of some supposed Political power that folks like you claim we have......but that wasn't the case!!!

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#3190 Apr 9, 2013
St Black Pope wrote:
I agree, you have not studied much.
Wow! I see that you have yet to refute anything that I said according to the scripture of which you claim that I have not studied much, rather than according to your beliefs, right?
St Black Pope wrote:
Before you can go further, then you must understand who Jesus is and was and you do not. If you say, God's son, then He would be less than God.
Well, Jesus explicitly said that “the Father is greater than I,”(John 10:28), right? And if so,“Wouldn’t this make Him less than God,” if you do not mind my asking?
St Black Pope wrote:
You posted Leviticus 18, which is God telling Moses to tell all his children this.
Yes, the “children of Israel” were the ones who were specifically commanded to follow Lev 18.
St Black Pope wrote:
Please explain how Leviticus 18 is about an Israelite man lying with a sacred male in worship, when it addresses incest 13 times.
Simply put, the 13 verses that are about incest begin at verse 6 and end at verse 18. However, verse 21 is about sacrificing ones’ children in worship of Molech, which is a fertility God, and verses 22 is about having sexual intercourse with zakars (or scared males) in the worship of this same fertility God, which is an abomination.
St Black Pope wrote:
So, if God condemned homosexuality then so did Jesus.
The God of Israel prohibited the children of Israel from engaging in human sacrifices and men lying with sacred males in the worship of another God. However, Jesus was totally silent on these issues.
St Black Pope wrote:
Jesus made reference to marriage as in Genesis, man and woman, period.
The word marriage does not appear anywhere in Genesis. In fact, the only two places that it appears in the OT is at Ex 21:20 and Ps 78:63 (KJV). But you should have known this since you are the one who studies the bible, right?
St Black Pope wrote:
God said in 1 Corinthians 7:2 that in order for all humans to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman her own husband.
With all due respect, please know that it was Paul, not God, who was speaking at 1 Cor 7:2.
St Black Pope wrote:
So,if you wish to argue that Jesus did not condemn homosexuality but told all of you to remain celibate or marry the opposite sex if you want sex, then that would be a start.
Again, please know that Paul is neither God nor Jesus, but rather a crafty man who caught people with guile or trickery. And if you disagree, please read what Paul himself said,“But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile”(2 Cor 12:16, KJV).

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#3191 Apr 9, 2013
St Black Pope wrote:
Genesis 2:24-28 AND 1 Corinthians 7:2, they have to be the most often avoided verses by you gays. You gays have managed to confuse yourself over Leviticus 18, although it speaks about incest 13 times. Is that why most gays engage in incest or are abuse victims of incest? If this were not true, then why, since it would only be forbidden for sacred males in worship?
Gen 2:24-25 (not 28) reads as follows:

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”

And it was Paul, not Jesus or God, who was speaking at this passage.

And here is what 1 Cor 7:2 reads as follows:

“Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.”

It appears that you have not studied the exegesis meaning of fornication in this verse; otherwise, you would not have quoted it to support your argument.

At any rate, this word fornication is being used in this verse to signify a betrothed wife who had sexual relations with another man. You see, if a betrothed wife had sex with another man before her marriage was consummated, it was called fornication. However, if she had sex with another man after her marriage had been consummated, then it was called adultery. And the punishment in either case was that the guilty parties would be put to death.

So, with this in mind, please know that this is what this verse is saying:

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife [as oppose to permitting another man to lie with her], and let every woman have her own husband [as oppose to her lying with another man].

But what I find to be very interesting is that when Paul said this, who admittedly was not speaking on God’s behalf, but rather was speaking from out on limb. And if you disagree, please read 1 Cor 7:6, i.e.,“But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.” You see, here Paul is in essence telling us that what he wrote was not inspired by God, right?

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#3192 Apr 9, 2013
gundee123 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, the God of Israel said that His name was Jealous. And He commanded Moses to kill people and take their land simply because they did not worship Him, right?
Are you saying He can't do that?

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#3193 Apr 9, 2013
gundee123 wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, I do not live my life based on any religious doctrine, not Christianity or otherwise. And I reveal the verses that Christians omit when they argue that the bible is the word of the God of Israel.
I see. You are your own god.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#3194 Apr 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
Are you saying He can't do that?
No, what I am saying is that I do not live my life based on what the alleged God of Israel commands.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#3195 Apr 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
I see. You are your own god.
No, I am my own person.
little lamb

Nudgee, Australia

#3196 Apr 9, 2013
satanic witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Well damn, don't you think that the old goat herders who wrote the bible noticed that dead things decay to dust and that babies get nourishment form the mother's food intake? All they did was state the obvious and the natural and twist it into something mysterious and supernatural?
There is nothing miraculous about conception,birth and death. They're just natural processes which can be explained by science.
Science can not explain LIFE.

And the best science can come up with is that everything evolved from nothing and that life came from an inanimate object..your belief is far fetched.
little lamb

Nudgee, Australia

#3197 Apr 9, 2013
just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever wondered what dirt is made of? The simple answer is that dirt is mixture of a whole lot of “stuff” such as rocks, sand, clay, and organic matter. The characteristics of the dirt in your area depend on the weather, the combinations of rocks, sands and clays, your geographic location, and what kind of organic matters are in the soil.
The composition of the human body can be looked at from the point of view of either mass composition, or atomic composition. To illustrate both views, the human body is ~70% water, and water is ~11% hydrogen by mass but ~67% hydrogen by atomic percent. Thus, most of the mass of the human body is oxygen, but most of the atoms in the human body are hydrogen atoms. Both mass-composition and atomic composition figures are given below.
Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of the six elements oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Only about 0.85% is composed of another five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All are necessary to life. The remaining elements are trace elements, of which more than a dozen are thought to be necessary for life, or play an active role in health (e.g., fluorine, which hardens dental enamel but seems to have no other function).
When we ( humans/ animals) decompose, we build on the organic portions of dirt
Dust you are , and to dust you return........
little lamb

Nudgee, Australia

#3198 Apr 9, 2013
gundee123 wrote:
<quoted text>

But what I find to be very interesting is that when Paul said this, who admittedly was not speaking on God’s behalf, but rather was speaking from out on limb. And if you disagree, please read 1 Cor 7:6, i.e.,“But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.” You see, here Paul is in essence telling us that what he wrote was not inspired by God, right?
Gundee constantly denigrates Paul..but Paul himself tells us
in 2 Corinthians 3 [5]

" not that we are adequately qualified to reckon anything as issuing from ourselves , but our being adequately qualified issues from God , who indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not of a written code , but of spirit......"

So as an Apostle to the nations, Paul is adequately qualified to minister Gods new covenant to us....

In fact it is Paul who ministers to us through Hebrews the significance of Jesus BLOOD.

Also Peter backs up Paul's writings by calling Paul his beloved brother, and explaining that Paul has said some very hard things to understand..and peter warned us that many , even like this Gundee here, are twisting , as they do the rest of the scriptures , to their own destruction.

So on a forum like this the decision is whose words have more weight Pauls or Gundees.

Gundees words are to attack Paul why?

because Paul administers a new covenant ...

satanic witch

“We R Watching U”

Since: Dec 11

Albany, NY

#3199 Apr 9, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Science can not explain LIFE.
And the best science can come up with is that everything evolved from nothing and that life came from an inanimate object..your belief is far fetched.
Where did god come from?
little lamb

Nudgee, Australia

#3200 Apr 9, 2013
satanic witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did god come from?
God is eternal..God created time and space

God is dynamic energy ....

Energy can not be created or destroyed.

Life begets LIFE..

you should stop and think seriously how could LIFE just evolve from nothing, because that is a more stupid preposition.

satanic witch

“We R Watching U”

Since: Dec 11

Albany, NY

#3201 Apr 9, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
God is eternal..God created time and space
God is dynamic energy ....
Energy can not be created or destroyed.
Life begets LIFE..
you should stop and think seriously how could LIFE just evolve from nothing, because that is a more stupid preposition.
Where did energy come from?

How can energy be conscious?

Prove there is a conscious light being aka god and not just entropy.
little lamb

Nudgee, Australia

#3202 Apr 9, 2013
satanic witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did energy come from?
How can energy be conscious?
Prove there is a conscious light being aka god and not just entropy.
You are the proof yourself..you know when you die ..medical practitioners say ' where the energy goes nobody knows."

So where did that energy come from, that made you you??

you see while you are alive you have energy .....when you are dead you don't.

You see the first man had God breathe into his nostrils the breath of LIFE.

You tell me what is wisdom..and you tell me do you really believe wisdom comes from inanimate object??

satanic witch

“We R Watching U”

Since: Dec 11

Albany, NY

#3203 Apr 9, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the proof yourself..you know when you die ..medical practitioners say ' where the energy goes nobody knows."
So where did that energy come from, that made you you??
you see while you are alive you have energy .....when you are dead you don't.
You see the first man had God breathe into his nostrils the breath of LIFE.
You tell me what is wisdom..and you tell me do you really believe wisdom comes from inanimate object??
But where did energy come from and why do you believe that energy can be conscious? Human/animals are conscious because we have brains and when we die we are no longer conscious. Our energy is absorbed back into lifeless void.
I do not believe in any deity. I believe there is a life force and that somehow this energy came into contact with matter and animated it. Because one does not have all the answers that is no reason to declare that some god did it. That is like hearing a noise in the night and assuming that your house is haunted instead of searching for a logical explanation.
Billy Ray

Indianapolis, IN

#3204 Apr 9, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Dust you are , and to dust you return........
The composition of the human body can be looked at from the point of view of either mass composition, or atomic composition. To illustrate both views, the human body is ~70% water, and water is ~11% hydrogen by mass but ~67% hydrogen by atomic percent. Thus, most of the mass of the human body is oxygen, but most of the atoms in the human body are hydrogen atoms. Both mass-composition and atomic composition figures are given below.

Dust???
little lamb

Nudgee, Australia

#3205 Apr 9, 2013
satanic witch wrote:
<quoted text>
But where did energy come from and why do you believe that energy can be conscious? Human/animals are conscious because we have brains and when we die we are no longer conscious. Our energy is absorbed back into lifeless void.
I do not believe in any deity. I believe there is a life force and that somehow this energy came into contact with matter and animated it. Because one does not have all the answers that is no reason to declare that some god did it. That is like hearing a noise in the night and assuming that your house is haunted instead of searching for a logical explanation.
The best way to explain things to you..is this.

man is made in the image of god..so if we can think ..god can think..if we can smell ..God can smell

The one creating the eye..certainly can see.

The one creating the ear can certainly hear.

you know that we see by light reflecting of things into our eye and we hear by 'wind vibrations'

Its marvelous...and the fact that you exist ..a living hearing seeing, thinking moving personality ..shows that such exists.

I mean where do you come from?

Because you are able to be creative, and design ..if God doesn't exist , you don't exist ..because you are living proof that there is intelligence in the universe..you yourself.

And God is our Father and creator..because even in the FAMILY , God set up a model on heaven itself..Family.

Now man has interfered and hurt the FAMILY..But we all know you had to have a mother and father to exist..why?

because God designed for you to come into the world in loving embrace..provided for , before you even arrived..

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