Jesus was a mythical figure, molded i...
jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#22 Sep 1, 2012
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
And to claim that proof-stuff was lost, is plain old stupid, and a childs sort of logic. The same could be said that the proof-stuff that disproves him was lost too. It goes both ways. You can NOT say what was lost, no one can...its not a means to wage a logical and coherent argument. You'd be laughed out of school for using that tactic in ANY subject.
WHY HAS NO ONE BOTHERED TO FORGE CONTEMPORARY EVIDENCE?
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
3. They mention ONLY Christians who followed a man called the Christ. And Josephus has lost most of its credibility because its deemed to have been altered, re; the telling of the Christ passage.
THERE WERE TWO REFERENCES TO CHRIST BY JOSEPHUS, did you know that?, AND MOST SCHOLARS BELIEVE THE SECOND REFERENCE TO THE BROTHER OF CHRIST IS AUTHENTIC!

Plus there's an Arabic version of the first reference, without add-ons.
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>4. Gnostic? Really? First, they're not accepted by TRUE Xtians, so they are useless...
Second if by their mention of Jesus/Christ alone - using your logic - they should be honored as legit sources of knowledge and the truth of him and his messages.
Yet they are deemed apocrypha, not legit, not considered genuine - so as such cant be deemed legit sources about Jesus/Christ.
Too bad. You cant use non-genuine texts as proof.
There was a bluddy lot of people who wanted to fake gospels, by no one tried to say he didn't exist!
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
5. You use the terms abundant and overwhelming like a teen (mis)uses "LOL" and "OMG", or the general populace uses the term "I love it!" And apparently have no clue as to what they actually mean. There is neither truly abundant, nor truly overwhelming evidence.
THERE IS ABUNDANT EVIDENCE!!!!!!
Mycroft

Goliad, TX

#24 Sep 2, 2012
While I will agree that the basis for worship and deification has been elevated to a mythological standard, especially if you aren't a practicing Christian, as has already been mentioned, there exists plenty of historical context for Jesus as a living person. If we're questioning Jesus's existence historically, we might as well question the existence of Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Ptolemy, and Hammurabi.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#29 Sep 2, 2012
Yesu Kristo Mwokozi wangu wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello WATER:
I was just in Tampa last week. Thinking about retirement in Lakeland in a few years.
RE: "Jesus was a mythical figure..."
Mythical? Are you kidding?
Firstly, the historicity contained within the pages of the Bible is valuable source of evidence for proof of the existence of Jesus Christ. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ.
There is also an abundant amount of non-Biblical historical evidence for the existence of Christ as well. In A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed.
However, non-Biblical historical evidence for Jesus Christ’ still exists. Historians such as first-century Roman Tacitus, Flavius Josephus, Julius Africanus, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, Lucian of Samosata, and Mara Bar-Serapion all wrote about the man Jesus.
Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.
Mythical? Not possible. There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. The only question one might have is that of His deity. Assuredly, Jesus is God incarnate.
There is always a kernel of truth at the core of a myth. I “believe” that a Jewish man named Yeshua lived and taught in the 1st century. However, as it frequently happens with great men, stories of their lives and exploits are embellished and blown entirely out of proportion by overzealous admirers. Jesus, himself, never wrote a word.

You have to put things into context. The supernatural not science was the standard explanation for anything people of that day didn’t understand. Sons of god were not uncommon and neither were magicians and healers. The Roman Emperor Augustus (63 BCE –14 CE) was known as “divi filius” the son of “God”. Even your source Tacitus (born 20 years after Jesus died) referred to Christianity as “a most mischievous superstition”.

"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820
zazenmind

Riverview, FL

#30 Sep 2, 2012
Jesus was not the first mythical figure, written about in scrolls, in the form of scriptures, in different parts of the world, in fact many cultures that were integrated because of war and famine, barrowed from one another myths, thus the stories have so many simularities, but it does not change the truth, that they are more myth than fact..Every nation, is still searching for new hero's and over time, just like in the past, they will create new legends and myths..And just like those of the past, it will said, that they also possesed super-powers..

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#31 Sep 2, 2012
Big Al wrote:
There is always a kernel of truth at the core of a myth. I “believe” that a Jewish man named Yeshua lived and taught in the 1st century. However, as it frequently happens with great men, stories of their lives and exploits are embellished and blown entirely out of proportion by overzealous admirers. Jesus, himself, never wrote a word.
Convenient knee jerk rationalization but a dearth of credible, verifiable, historical evidence.
You have to put things into context. The supernatural not science was the standard explanation for anything people of that day didn’t understand. Sons of god were not uncommon and neither were magicians and healers. The Roman Emperor Augustus (63 BCE –14 CE) was known as “divi filius” the son of “God”. Even your source Tacitus (born 20 years after Jesus died) referred to Christianity as “a most mischievous superstition”.
Rationalization. "It probably happened in some ancient societies so it probably happened in Judaism and/or Christianity." Augustus is irrelevant. Tacitus is also irrelvant. After all according to you it is all hearssay.
"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820
Knee jerk, quotes from irrelvant public figures are irrelevant. Logical fallacy, appeal to authority. "Jefferson was presdient so he must be an authority on anything he talks about."
jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#33 Sep 3, 2012
zazenmind wrote:
Jesus was not the first mythical figure, written about in scrolls, in the form of scriptures, in different parts of the world, in fact many cultures that were integrated because of war and famine, barrowed from one another myths, thus the stories have so many simularities, but it does not change the truth, that they are more myth than fact..Every nation, is still searching for new hero's and over time, just like in the past, they will create new legends and myths..And just like those of the past, it will said, that they also possesed super-powers..
a
YOU ARE FULL OF SCHITT!
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#34 Sep 3, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
Convenient knee jerk rationalization but a dearth of credible, verifiable, historical evidence.
<quoted text>
Rationalization. "It probably happened in some ancient societies so it probably happened in Judaism and/or Christianity." Augustus is irrelevant. Tacitus is also irrelvant. After all according to you it is all hearssay.
<quoted text>
Knee jerk, quotes from irrelvant public figures are irrelevant. Logical fallacy, appeal to authority. "Jefferson was presdient so he must be an authority on anything he talks about."
So you are saying that people do not have a tendency to embellish the exploits of their heroes and all of the supernatural events recounted in the Bible are independently verifiable making faith entirely unnecessary?

So you are saying that superstition was not more prevalent among people in the 1st century?

I do not use the quote by Thomas Jefferson as proof of anything, merely as an example of rational thinking.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#35 Sep 3, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying that people do not have a tendency to embellish the exploits of their heroes and all of the supernatural events recounted in the Bible are independently verifiable making faith entirely unnecessary?
No I think I said that because one society may have done something that does not mean any other society did and that there was a dearth of evidence to support your assertion.
Are you are saying that superstition was not more prevalent among people in the 1st century?
See above.
I do not use the quote by Thomas Jefferson as proof of anything, merely as an example of rational thinking.
An example of someone who supports your asumptions/presuppositions = rational thinking? Got it!
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#36 Sep 3, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
No I think I said that because one society may have done something that does not mean any other society did and that there was a dearth of evidence to support your assertion.
<quoted text>
See above.
<quoted text>
An example of someone who supports your asumptions/presuppositions = rational thinking? Got it!
I don’t quite understand your criticism of my post.
Do you disagree that people (in general) tend to exaggerate the exploits of their heroes?

Do you claim that all of the supernatural events recounted in the Bible are independently verifiable?

Do you or do you not understand that superstition was much more prevalent in in all 1st century cultures due to the fact science and the understanding of nature was very much less advanced?

I absolutely used a quote that agrees with the point I was trying to make. Why would I use a quote that didn’t? I used that quote because it expresses what I think much better than I could. I also think that all of the writings of the principle author of the Declaration of Independence are good examples of rational thought. Do think Jefferson was irrational?

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#37 Sep 3, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t quite understand your criticism of my post.
Do you disagree that people (in general) tend to exaggerate the exploits of their heroes?
Do you claim that all of the supernatural events recounted in the Bible are independently verifiable?
Do you or do you not understand that superstition was much more prevalent in in all 1st century cultures due to the fact science and the understanding of nature was very much less advanced?
I absolutely used a quote that agrees with the point I was trying to make. Why would I use a quote that didn’t? I used that quote because it expresses what I think much better than I could. I also think that all of the writings of the principle author of the Declaration of Independence are good examples of rational thought. Do think Jefferson was irrational?
"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
Interesting quote Big Al from Hibbing?

I see it as it was his (TJ's) hope that the doctrine of Jesus Christ be restored to its genuine form AFTER the classification alignment with Minerve...

Wow, didn't have a clue, did ya?
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#38 Sep 3, 2012
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting quote Big Al from Hibbing?
I see it as it was his (TJ's) hope that the doctrine of Jesus Christ be restored to its genuine form AFTER the classification alignment with Minerve...
Wow, didn't have a clue, did ya?
Sounds to me like he’s equating the “mystical generation of Jesus…in the womb of a virgin” with the “fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter” and hoping that” reason and freedom” will “will do away with this artificial scaffolding”.

You know he made his own Bible removing all of the mysticism and supernatural didn't you?

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#39 Sep 3, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds to me like he’s equating the “mystical generation of Jesus…in the womb of a virgin” with the “fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter” and hoping that” reason and freedom” will “will do away with this artificial scaffolding”.
You know he made his own Bible removing all of the mysticism and supernatural didn't you?
Difference of "opininon"...

I do and it doesn't make much of a bible does it?
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#41 Sep 4, 2012
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Difference of "opininon"...
I do and it doesn't make much of a bible does it?
“There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man.”- Thomas Jefferson

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#42 Sep 4, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
“There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man.”- Thomas Jefferson
Don't agree with that as "Christ" is the foundation...
zazenmind

Riverview, FL

#44 Sep 10, 2012
Every believer in the God delusion, is a parasite, because none of you, have discovered this fictional figure you call God..Every word, that you recite, is parasitical in nature, because none of you have discovered anything, you are simply parrots that go on repeating, like all those before you, it is simply generational conditioning that has been vomitted and licked up, by one generation after another, and its these same pattern of beliefs that once again reproduce the same self destructive results, like it has in the past, only now the tribe of christians, jews and islamics are armed with weapons of mass self destruction...WAKE UP..FINAL WARNING..

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#45 Sep 10, 2012
zazenmind wrote:
Every believer in the God delusion, is a parasite, because none of you, have discovered this fictional figure you call God..Every word, that you recite, is parasitical in nature, because none of you have discovered anything, you are simply parrots that go on repeating, like all those before you, it is simply generational conditioning that has been vomitted and licked up, by one generation after another, and its these same pattern of beliefs that once again reproduce the same self destructive results, like it has in the past, only now the tribe of christians, jews and islamics are armed with weapons of mass self destruction...WAKE UP..FINAL WARNING..
If this is true, I'll be in heaven and you'll STILL be dead...

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#46 Sep 10, 2012
zazenmind wrote:
Every believer in the God delusion, is a parasite, because none of you, have discovered this fictional figure you call God..Every word, that you recite, is parasitical in nature, because none of you have discovered anything, you are simply parrots that go on repeating, like all those before you, it is simply generational conditioning that has been vomitted and licked up, by one generation after another, and its these same pattern of beliefs that once again reproduce the same self destructive results, like it has in the past, only now the tribe of christians, jews and islamics are armed with weapons of mass self destruction...WAKE UP..FINAL WARNING..
Don't you really wish that yhou saying all this stuff would make it true but nothing you have said can be proven.
jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#48 Sep 13, 2012
zazenmind

Riverview, FL

#49 Sep 20, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you really wish that yhou saying all this stuff would make it true but nothing you have said can be proven.
There is tons of past and present evidence that proves how corrupt and vile christianity is, its in the papers everyday..

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#50 Sep 20, 2012
zazenmind wrote:
<quoted text>There is tons of past and present evidence that proves how corrupt and vile christianity is, its in the papers everyday..
Organic bovine excreta!

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