Science vs. Religion
Job

Union City, CA

#748 Aug 17, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>2. probably be some play on the scientists name, or the main concept of his hypothesis. Which would need to be tested (a lot!) and proved by more'n that scientist...
1. Funny coming from any Xtian, whose entire tradition is based on owning terminology that was too often redefining/altering "regularly" understood terms to mean something different by the apologists. Who demanded they had the Right to alter these terms to support their newly created world.
Terminology is extremely important to Xtianity. Except of course when it conflicts with the Xtian POV.
I'm not sure how #1 plays into this, but your #2 makes sense. The point I'm making is that the idea of crediting evolution to biological acheivements is 'pending'.
Job

Union City, CA

#749 Aug 17, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont think anyone has argued that a "true" scientist cant also have faith.(in any Religious system) Most have said that what makes them "true" is that they dont lead their work with their faith, or that they default to their faith when they find new evidence for Evo - or anything that might conflict with the tenets of their Religious faith.
That what makes them "true" is they dont look at the evidence, the facts and say, "Oops this is not gonna fly (with my Religion) so I better toss it out/hide it." They pursue it, and do it honestly and with Professionalism. Dealing with the facts of their/others work on a personal level as to how it might effect their faith.
While what You/others seem to argue is that having faith and being a scientist somehow proves the claims of their Religion. Or that there being Believers in the scientific community it refutes Evolution and supports a wholly Creator based system. Even when the vast majority of these Believer scientists support ToE outright. Or that because a few take issue with this strict Evo POV it outright negates the whole.
About the only profession/job I can think of where ones Faith should cause them issue with their job is that of State Executioner. Should one be a Xtian, they need to quit and make serious acts of contrition!
The point I think I've been making, and know that others make as well, is that ID is not even acknowledged as a possibility among the majority of biologists who are atheists and agnostics.
Job

Union City, CA

#750 Aug 17, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>

1. Well, first and foremost, IF anything ever does manage to replace the theory of evolution, it will be another scientific theory. "Goddidit" is not now, nor ever will be, a scientific theory so creationism will never be a replacement for evolution. Hmmm... unless someone manages to provide testable, objective evidence that supports the existence of a Deity...
However, we have had the theory of evolution for over a century and a half and to date there has been NO evidence contrary to the ToE. Just the opposite, in fact: every new piece of evidence reinforces the ToE.
<quoted text>

2. Yes, creationism IS fiction and myth...
<quoted text>

3. Ah... I'm a white Republican. And George Washington WAS a Deist, as were several other of the Founding Fathers.
<quoted text>

4. I don't have time to fully follow all of the links necessary to properly explore the issue. However, I will say this, If G.W Carver was indeed a creationist, it was because he put faith before evidence.
1. Maybe from a biased 'naturalist' perspective. Dismissing a creator, evolution probably 'would' be the seemingly most plausible solution. The holes and flaws that point to intelligent design are not enough to dismiss evolution only from a naturalistic perspective, assuming that there was/is no intelligent being working outside of natural law.

My point is however the 'pending/non-solidified' nature of crediting to evolution to biology accomplishments.

2. Do you believe in the possibility of a creator?

3. Okay, I'll bite. What do you base this on (George Washington being a deist. Not you being a White Republican)?

4. Was he perhaps a "creatard/religitard "?
Job

Union City, CA

#751 Aug 17, 2013
Common Sense wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think it's possible science could discover your christian god created the cosmos?
I personally doubt it. I think God has placed some very obvious restrictions on what we can discover. One of them is what happens after death. I know that science will 'never' find that out. I don't believe that man will ever have the ability to travel into God's dwelling place via technology. That's something that will only happen when God actively brings one's soul to that dwelling place.

Science, like everything else was given by God to benefit mankind. But like anything else, it can detract from what is really important. And that's been an ongoing controversy 'without' religion. When does scientific acheivement violate human rights, safety, etc.

The message of Jesus Christ is that seeking the better of 'others' is of greater value even above scientific acheivement.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#752 Aug 17, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Maybe from a biased 'naturalist' perspective. Dismissing a creator, evolution probably 'would' be the seemingly most plausible solution. The holes and flaws that point to intelligent design are not enough to dismiss evolution only from a naturalistic perspective, assuming that there was/is no intelligent being working outside of natural law.
My point is however the 'pending/non-solidified' nature of crediting to evolution to biology accomplishments.
2. Do you believe in the possibility of a creator?
3. Okay, I'll bite. What do you base this on (George Washington being a deist. Not you being a White Republican)?
4. Was he perhaps a "creatard/religitard "?
George Washington is listed among many great persons with Aspersers syndrome, the so called Aspies!

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_famous_people_...

These are great people far above the average in intelligence, without them and other Aspies we would still be living in caves and hunting in the bush.

We can’t exclude that some famous religious people are among them!?!
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#753 Aug 17, 2013
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
I pray you will read the Bible and study it with some good companion books such as commentaries. Your made-up version is blasphemous and completely violates the truth of the Bible.
I have read thru the NT three times and read the OT thousands of times. I can quote verbatim entire chapters from memory. I know and understand the bible. Jesus was sent by Satan to finish his work. Christians believe Satans' lie in the Garden of Eden, you can disobey God and not keep his commandments and you won't die. I am here to say that there are consequences for sin and what you believe is not going to get you out of it. God does not love everybody, she loves the righteous who love her. There is also a reward for the righteous and they have hope in their death.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#754 Aug 17, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
The point I think I've been making, and know that others make as well, is that ID is not even acknowledged as a possibility among the majority of biologists who are atheists and agnostics.
..... nor among the majority of biologists who are Christians or any other religion.

You are so out of touch with reality.

“Vader2016!”

Since: Sep 10

The Deathstar

#755 Aug 17, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
The point I think I've been making, and know that others make as well, is that ID is not even acknowledged as a possibility among the majority of biologists who are atheists and agnostics.
That is because... for the 92348764982364982739487234 time.

They have presented NO let me say that again.... NO evidence that "goddidit."

However,

ALL SCIENCES AGREE ON A 4.5 BILLION YEAR OLD EARTH.

It is not just evolution. I just fail to always see the nit-pik of evolution.

Try astronomy or geology for once. Claim: "Gravity is just a theory."

Or, present some evidence for the case that ID is a science and what evidence it has. Not just tired old arguments that have been refuted or don't fall into the "god of the gaps" argument.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#756 Aug 17, 2013
10uhsee wrote:
<quoted text>
That is because... for the 92348764982364982739487234 time.
They have presented NO let me say that again.... NO evidence that "goddidit."
However,
ALL SCIENCES AGREE ON A 4.5 BILLION YEAR OLD EARTH.
It is not just evolution. I just fail to always see the nit-pik of evolution.
Try astronomy or geology for once. Claim: "Gravity is just a theory."
Or, present some evidence for the case that ID is a science and what evidence it has. Not just tired old arguments that have been refuted or don't fall into the "god of the gaps" argument.
1) It's really really complicated: therefore, God did it.
2) Puppies are cute: therefore, God did it.

Have I missed anything?
feces for jesus

Thiells, NY

#757 Aug 17, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
ST is MYTH! LOL! Hell awaits you O Biblical IGNORAMUS!
The truth works

United States

#758 Aug 17, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh...This GOD has killed people...a lot of people! He has smote'd a lot of people. And last time I checked, if he's telling people to kill, he's also complicit and guilty. In fact, he tells us he's going to kill even more when he comes back on tour...so he's already guilty of premeditated murder...!
Or did he mean kill euphemistically, like a comic or band that "kills on stage"...?
According to some funky book he killed a lot of people, but if anyone was killed, murdered, it was man.
I think the ticket buyers are getting fewer and fewer.
That old man in the "book" is not very funny.
I suppose you could say somebody is still telling people to kill, but I wouldn't call him God. If there is a God it ain't that guy.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#759 Aug 17, 2013
Common Sense wrote:
1. <quoted text>
Let me condense what I've already said with different words to clear up the miscommunication we're having.
Deism isn't a religion. It's a persons perspective after studying the natural world to gain knowledge on how it came about. As I've told you before, there is no way to find out if a conscious Deity created the cosmos by studying it..This means each Deist comes up with their own conclusion on the odds it happened by chance or a conscious creator.

2. I also told you my odds are 50/50 which makes me agnostic on a Deist Deity created the cosmos.

3. Some Deist may believe there's only a 1% chance a Deist Deity created it making them agnostic as well.. You said you're 100% positive the christian god created the universe which means you are 'not' agnostic about it..
I asked you for a link showing Tomas Paine quote that says he knew a deity created the cosmos..I'm still waiting for that link..
1. Of course for the record, I never claimed that deism is a religion.

2. Are you a deist?

3. I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life."

"The moral duty of man consists in imitating the moral goodness and beneficence of God manifested in the creation toward all his creatures. That seeing, as we daily do, the goodness of God to all men, it is an example calling upon all men to practice the same toward each other."

"I consider myself In the hands of my Creator, and that he will dispose of me after this life consistently with his justice and goodness" (Private Thoughts on a Future State).

Were man impressed as fully and as strongly as he ought to be with the belief of a God, his moral life would be regulated by the force of that belief; he would stand in awe of God and of himself, and would not do the thing that could not be concealed from either.... This is Deism."

"I trouble not myself about the manner of future existence. I content myself with believing, even to positive conviction, that the power that gave me existence is able to continue it in any form and manner he pleases, either with or without this body" (Age of Reason).

"We believe in the existence of a God, and in the immortality of the soul."

"The people of France were running headlong into Atheism, and I had the work translated into their own language, to stop them in that career, and fix them in the first article of every man's creed, who has any creed at all -- I believe in God."

-----

Do I have a quote where Paine uses the term "I know", or " I believe____%"? No. Maybe Paine was a 100 percenter?

Do you have quotes where early American deists like Paine suggested percentages?
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#760 Aug 17, 2013
10uhsee wrote:
<quoted text>
That is because... for the 92348764982364982739487234 time.
They have presented NO let me say that again.... NO evidence that "goddidit."
However,
ALL SCIENCES AGREE ON A 4.5 BILLION YEAR OLD EARTH.
It is not just evolution. I just fail to always see the nit-pik of evolution.
Try astronomy or geology for once. Claim: "Gravity is just a theory."
Or, present some evidence for the case that ID is a science and what evidence it has. Not just tired old arguments that have been refuted or don't fall into the "god of the gaps" argument.
There's no reason to question gravity. Molecule to man evo? Yes!

When you say sciences agree, do you mean that particular branch of science itself, or the scientists? Where does, for instance,(the non-person/entity) astronomy prove that the earth is 4.5 billion years old?
Ben

United States

#761 Aug 17, 2013
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

“Vader2016!”

Since: Sep 10

The Deathstar

#762 Aug 17, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no reason to question gravity.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/features/ne...

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#763 Aug 18, 2013
feces for jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =XP3pSLi2z14XX
Your faith is in YOUTUBE? LOL!

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#764 Aug 18, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Your faith is in YOUTUBE? LOL!
Try not to get carried away trashing the forum. You might be late for church.

God bless you.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#765 Aug 18, 2013
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Try not to get carried away trashing the forum. You might be late for church.
God bless you.
The Bible trash? When you are burning in Hell forever you will remember O Biblical IGNORAMUS!
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#766 Aug 18, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no reason to question gravity. Molecule to man evo? Yes!
“This satirical look at "only a theory" disclaimers imagines what might happen if advocates applied the same logic to the theory of gravitation that they do to the theory of evolution.”- National Center for Science Education

“The Universal Theory of Gravity is often taught in schools as a fact, when in fact it is not even a good theory. First of all, no one has measured gravity for every atom and every star. It is simply a religious belief that it is ‘universal’.

Secondly, school textbooks routinely make false statements. For example,‘the moon goes around the earth.’ If the theory of gravity were true, it would show that the sun's gravitational force on the moon is much stronger than the earth's gravitational force on the moon, so the moon would go around the sun.

There are numerous alternative theories that should be taught on an equal basis. For example, the observed behavior of the earth's revolving around the sun can be perfectly explained if the sun has a net positive charge and the planets have a net negative charge, since opposite charges attract and the force is an inverse-square law, exactly as proposed by the increasingly discredited Theory of Gravity....”- Ellery Schempp c/o National Center for Science Education

http://ncse.com/rncse/27/5-6/gravity-its-only...
feces for jesus

Thiells, NY

#767 Aug 18, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Your faith is in YOUTUBE? LOL!
Your faith is in an 2000 year old unreferenced book, with no claim of authorship?? LOL!

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