Science vs. Religion

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#728 Aug 16, 2013
Jesus Is wrote:
a
IT'S A TEST AND GOD CONTROLS THE EVIDENCE!!!!!!!
Yeah, that's right, and you reject God's evidence. Is that on account of some creation mythology and foundation legend in an late Bronze Age book?
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

#729 Aug 16, 2013
The truth works wrote:
<quoted text>
That's all fine if you go by the bible in a literal sense. Good thing in this country is that we are free to think and believe as we want without being prosecuted and thrown in jail. that is what I like about this place (our country).
I just don't take the bible literally. I see it as a book of metaphors and parables designed to help mankind find his way in this strange life.
With all the information we have access to these days I feel forced to interpret the bible words differently than you.
I do not have problem with other's beliefs, except when others condemn me to hell or something like that. I respect you for not condemning me just because our beliefs are different. Thanks for that!
It's not up to me or any other human to condemn anyone else to hell. That is God's place. But Jesus does make the claim that HE is the only way to salvation. Anyway, regarding your feelings about the Bible, if it is just a book of fairy tales like atheists say, or even just a book of metaphors, then why is it not written as such? The Bible, except for obviously poetic segments such as Psalms and Proverbs, is written as actual history without any poetic language. Sure there are metaphors and hyperbole used here and there for emphasis, but otherwise, it is written as history. The OT is written as historical narrative for the most part, and the NT is in the form of historical accounts(the Gospels), letters(of Paul, etc.), and even Revelation, which is written as prophetic text. Also, remember that the Bible has much of archaeology, geology, biology, and other sciences behind it. A great deal of what is in the Bible has been proven to be real, such as the peoples, places, utensils, habitats, etc. Why believe in all of those very real details but not in the most important aspect of it: its message?!
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

#730 Aug 16, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, that is my personal theology and I came up with it on my own. It's something I've always known, even before I was religious. Adam is Satan the serpent and Jesus is the spiritual descendant of him. Gen. 3:15. The story in the Garden of Eden is allegorical and not meant to be taken literally. Adam was the tree of knowledge and Eve was the tree of life. I've also always believed God is a woman.
I pray you will read the Bible and study it with some good companion books such as commentaries. Your made-up version is blasphemous and completely violates the truth of the Bible.
The truth works

United States

#731 Aug 16, 2013
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not up to me or any other human to condemn anyone else to hell. That is God's place. But Jesus does make the claim that HE is the only way to salvation. Anyway, regarding your feelings about the Bible, if it is just a book of fairy tales like atheists say, or even just a book of metaphors, then why is it not written as such? The Bible, except for obviously poetic segments such as Psalms and Proverbs, is written as actual history without any poetic language. Sure there are metaphors and hyperbole used here and there for emphasis, but otherwise, it is written as history. The OT is written as historical narrative for the most part, and the NT is in the form of historical accounts(the Gospels), letters(of Paul, etc.), and even Revelation, which is written as prophetic text. Also, remember that the Bible has much of archaeology, geology, biology, and other sciences behind it. A great deal of what is in the Bible has been proven to be real, such as the peoples, places, utensils, habitats, etc. Why believe in all of those very real details but not in the most important aspect of it: its message?!
There are unlimited amounts of stories, books, poems, movies, etc. that contain factual events and locations. People produce these things to get a message across, but all the happenings in these portrayals of real life are just not real although the message is real enough and are very valuable.
Have you ever heard the phrase "it's just a movie"?
God doesn't kill people, people kill people and some people just die for various reasons.
The writings in the bible are very old and were written in a similar way (for back then) using the same method as is used today.

It's the same, only different.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#732 Aug 16, 2013
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not up to me or any other human to condemn anyone else to hell. That is God's place. But Jesus does make the claim that HE is the only way to salvation. Anyway, regarding your feelings about the Bible, if it is just a book of fairy tales like atheists say, or even just a book of metaphors, then why is it not written as such? The Bible, except for obviously poetic segments such as Psalms and Proverbs, is written as actual history without any poetic language. Sure there are metaphors and hyperbole used here and there for emphasis, but otherwise, it is written as history. The OT is written as historical narrative for the most part, and the NT is in the form of historical accounts(the Gospels), letters(of Paul, etc.), and even Revelation, which is written as prophetic text. Also, remember that the Bible has much of archaeology, geology, biology, and other sciences behind it. A great deal of what is in the Bible has been proven to be real, such as the peoples, places, utensils, habitats, etc. Why believe in all of those very real details but not in the most important aspect of it: its message?!
The Count of Monte Cristo ' is written as a history' and 'a great deal of what is in The Count of Monte Cristo has been proven to be real'.

What The Count of Monte Cristo does not have is talking animals, wizards, soothsayers, flying carriages, witches, unicorns, crystal balls, etc, etc, etc.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#733 Aug 16, 2013
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
I pray you will read the Bible and study it with some good companion books such as commentaries. Your made-up version is blasphemous and completely violates the truth of the Bible.
We know what you mean by 'good companion books'.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#734 Aug 16, 2013
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible, except for obviously poetic segments such as Psalms and Proverbs, is written as actual history without any poetic language.
Any Jewish scholar can tell you how Genesis is written as poetry, with repeating strophes "evening and morning of the second day..." etc.

And you can write the story of Jesus as "history" decades after he died and STILL insert a whole lot of made up material.

Most modern Bible historians agree that the virgin birth, the birth narratives in Matthew and Luke (a non-historical Slaughter of the Innocents, flight into Egypt to explicitly parallel the life of Moses), the BS about zombies coming our of their graves and walking into town after Jesus' death, etc. etc. etc. are completely made up.

Also, the vicious condemnation Jesus launches against the Pharisees in Matthew "Vipers. Whitened sepulchres," etc.) was almost certainly not said by Jesus but put into his mouth by Matthew, whose community in the 80s would have been struggling against the Pharisees for control of the synagogues of Judaism in a post-temple, post-70 AD world.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#735 Aug 17, 2013
Jesus Is wrote:
<quoted text>
a
ACCIDENTLY?
No, when it happened within the perfect chaos and the environment of chaos isn’t exactly what we tend to believe or can understand without using science and our most advanced mathematics.

When something happens randomly or by accident if you prefer that, and it is repeated over and over again hundreds or thousands times, then sooner or later we will see that it will happen in a pattern, it will self-arrange a pattern based on the surrounding or environment.

This is how everything we can see around us and have within us are created thru evolution, how chaos within the initial “soup” of "Big Bang" little by little created its own basic self-arranged patterns and how it has evolved from there ever since.

It is how all elements and chemicals came to be and how we have evolved from that.
What it takes to have this process of evolution is an infinite number of basic particles/energy/momentum and infinity of time.
Common Sense

San Diego, CA

#736 Aug 17, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm not suggesting that at all. This is actually where a lot of confusion, and media misrepresentation takes place.
First off, I have no doubt that there are Christians who would prefer evolution theory be removed from the face of the earth. However, this is not an accurate picture of Creationist scientists. Not even in Kansas, Tennessee, or South Korea. Creationist scientists actually want 'both' to be presented so that people can decide for themselves. There are Creationist scientists that are confident enough in their creationist view to make a public challenge to evolution.
The idea that Creationists/Creationist scientists want to stop scientific research is a part of the whole 'propaganda' you see all over the place including right here in this forum.
I'm sure you've heard of this man. Do you think he was against scientific research?
----------
George Washington Carver believed he could have faith both in God and science and integrated them into his life. He testified on many occasions that his faith in Jesus was the only mechanism by which he could effectively pursue and perform the art of science.[57] George Washington Carver became a Christian when he was ten years old. When he was still a young boy, he was not expected to live past his twenty-first birthday due to failing health. He lived well past the age of twenty-one, and his belief deepened as a result.[23] Throughout his career, he always found friendship with other Christians. He relied on them especially when criticized by the scientific community and media regarding his research methodology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washingto...
----------
I admit that using him as an example is putting one on the spot because it's politically incorrect to speak negatively about an African American iconic figure like George Washington Carver. But, like creationists of today, he underwent his share of criticism.
Do you think it's possible science could discover your christian god created the cosmos?
On the fence

San Diego, CA

#737 Aug 17, 2013
Jesus Is wrote:
<quoted text>
LISTEN YOU LOSER!!!!!!! I HAVE SEEN EVIDENCE THAT GOD IS REAL!
I can't prove to anyone what I saw because I didn't have a camera on me at the time, so I believe God wants to remain hidden and only known to people who really seek Him.
I PROMISE YOU I AM TELLING THE TRUTH AND I WANT YOU TO REMEMBER THIS! WRITE IT ON YOUR MEMORY
You're the guy I've been looking for..What evidence have you seen that proves God is real?
Jesus Is wrote:
<quoted text>I believe God wants to remain hidden and only known to people who really seek Him.
God's doing an excellent job hiding himself for sure..If he could stop hiding himself from the muslims they would stop blowing innocent people up for their allah..That would make your god a caring god....but he's still hiding...
feces for jesus

Thiells, NY

#738 Aug 17, 2013
Cowboy Outlaw 45 wrote:
<quoted text>I can charge you with the same sir, likewise you can't make up your own facts as we go along. I'm not sure if you ever attended college, or a major university, but ask anyone who has gone to school, and they will gladly inform you, that EVOLUTION IS BEING TAUGHT AS A THEORY, NOT BEING TAUGHT AS A FACT.
Thank you for showing us that you do no understand what a scientific theory is. Your ignorance is a shining beacon.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#739 Aug 17, 2013
feces for jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for showing us that you do no understand what a scientific theory is. Your ignorance is a shining beacon.
ST is MYTH! LOL! Hell awaits you O Biblical IGNORAMUS!
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#740 Aug 17, 2013
Asch Paradigm_ wrote:
<quoted text>I really do not think many believers justify their beliefs to you at all. Instead, I think you find all sorts of reasons and means to justify your unbelief.

The idea of redemption is inherit among any species that is flawed and constantly causing turmoil to others and himself.

Your problem is that it is your debate alone and certain that you have been told that often.
Nope. Dont deflect your issues on me. What are you talking about justifying their belief? You all do it all the time by quoting some random Bible passage like it explains the whole world.

Its believers who have to find all sorts of justifications to believe, because - wait for it - its FAITH F'n Based!!!

No, the idea of redemtption is NOT inherent in the Human species. Thats your Western Xtian and American POV that has clouded your judgment...the mythos of the American male out there on the frontier seeking redemption from a violent, failed past.

FAITH BASED belief demands a myriad amount of justifications - most of them made-up and pulled from the air around you.

My unbelief is based on two simple ideas. 1. Absolutely no proof whatsoever ever presented by any Religious system- ever! 2. All the lies and obfuscations and violence committed by the adherents to these ideas so to protect and JUSTIFY their made-up shyte.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#741 Aug 17, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Then where is the idea of "redemption" in Hinduism, Jainism, Shintoism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.? The vast majority of the world's religious believers don't seem to subscribe to it.
Look up the Asch Paradigm and we can see where and why he/she believes...they conform to the group. Like most Xtians, they need to belong so they believe...afraid to be independent.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#742 Aug 17, 2013
Jesus Is wrote:
<quoted text>
LISTEN YOU LOSER!!!!!!! I HAVE SEEN EVIDENCE THAT GOD IS REAL!
I can't prove to anyone what I saw because I didn't have a camera on me at the time, so I believe God wants to remain hidden and only known to people who really seek Him.
I PROMISE YOU I AM TELLING THE TRUTH AND I WANT YOU TO REMEMBER THIS! WRITE IT ON YOUR MEMORY
So keep your anecdotes to yourself. They are not now ot ever will be proof for the rest of us. If your God was serious about about proving himself, he would not be doing it randomly and thru the likes of jerks like you. It shows not an omniscient Being, but a truly stupid one. Even if he existed, but he doesnt, its your imagination at work.

Think about a politician who occasionally steps out of the shadows, shakes hands with a few random people, disparately located, then slinks back into hiding.

Chances of winning? About the chances a Sasquatch hunter has of hunting one down. Zilch!
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#743 Aug 17, 2013
Jesus Is wrote:
<quoted text>
No, why does it make God a liar? he has told us the truth and has given us the freedom of choice to choose our beliefs.
But that freedom seems to anger people like you. You want everyone to believe because you do and based on your beliefs and hallucinations.

Sorry, that's not called freedom. Plus I don't follow people who hallucinate and claim its real and a God!

In reality YOU'RE the liar, as your God doesnt exist.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#744 Aug 17, 2013
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not up to me or any other human to condemn anyone else to hell. That is God's place.

1. But Jesus does make the claim that HE is the only way to salvation.

Anyway, regarding your feelings about the Bible,

2. if it is just a book of fairy tales like atheists say, or even just a book of metaphors, then why is it not written as such?

The Bible, except for obviously poetic segments such as Psalms and Proverbs, is written as actual history without any poetic language. Sure there are metaphors and hyperbole used here and there for emphasis, but otherwise, it is written as history.

The OT is written as historical narrative for the most part, and the

3. NT is in the form of historical accounts(the Gospels), letters(of Paul, etc.), and

4. even Revelation, which is written as prophetic text.

5. Also, remember that the Bible has much of archaeology, geology, biology, and other sciences behind it. A great deal of what is in the Bible has been proven to be real, such as the peoples, places, utensils, habitats, etc. Why believe in all of those very real details but not in the most important aspect of it: its message?!
1. To some Jews. Not to anyone else. he was there to straighten out the Jews.

And the Buddha beat him to the idea of being the WAY...

2. Because that's how the ancients told cultural stories. Thats the way all oral trads start...then its continued when written down. Ans when that happens, it quickly evolves into dogmatism.

3. they are not historical accounts. They are anecdotal at best, and Pauls letters are not historical records, but correspondence to clear things up...and tell his POV.

4. Prophetic text is not a historical accounting...its BS is what it is.

5. You're wrong, a "great deal of the Bible" is NOT proved. Most especially its foundational stories - like the Jews in captivity, and their flight from it...no trace! None!

Plus all the supernatural cr/p - not proven. None of it! Not Jesus rising from the dead, or manna from heaven. None of it proven!

And no amount of archeological artifacts will now or EVER prove the supernatural claims of the Bible. If we allow that sort of idiotic reasoning than by default all the other cultures artifacts prove their claims! The pyramids of Egypt and South America prove those claims, the many Holy/sacred sites all 'round the world prove the claims of their people because they are real.

Get it!?! Now no more of your stupid games about this!

PS, how does geology support the claims of the Bible? The very basics of Geological science refutes the basics of the Bible, like Young Earth.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#745 Aug 17, 2013
The truth works wrote:
<quoted text>
There are unlimited amounts of stories, books, poems, movies, etc. that contain factual events and locations. People produce these things to get a message across, but all the happenings in these portrayals of real life are just not real although the message is real enough and are very valuable.
Have you ever heard the phrase "it's just a movie"?
God doesn't kill people, people kill people and some people just die for various reasons.
The writings in the bible are very old and were written in a similar way (for back then) using the same method as is used today.
It's the same, only different.
Uh...This GOD has killed people...a lot of people! He has smote'd a lot of people. And last time I checked, if he's telling people to kill, he's also complicit and guilty. In fact, he tells us he's going to kill even more when he comes back on tour...so he's already guilty of premeditated murder...!

Or did he mean kill euphemistically, like a comic or band that "kills on stage"...?
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#746 Aug 17, 2013
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
I pray you will read the Bible and study it with some good companion books such as commentaries. Your made-up version is blasphemous and completely violates the truth of the Bible.
Clearly you lack any historical knowledge of how Xtian doctrines came to be...many of them were not accepted at first, many were violently fought over, and many won by some rather nefarious means...

Whats great (and silly) about the Bible is it has no actual ONE interpretation - but many, and any can be added to the list...
Job

Union City, CA

#747 Aug 17, 2013
10uhsee wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =dK3O6KYPmEwXX
Watch this Job, let me know what you think.
Evolution, without question.
Well for one, I'm as unimpressed as anyone can possibley get. These types of situations like this are basically "pep rallys". He was preaching to the "Evolutionary Mass Choir". Mr. Miller had the floor, and could say anything he wanted without any interruption or dispute. The title of the vid "Shutting up pesky creationists" (or something like that) is misleading, because there were no creationists presented in the video. Had it been a debate with a Creationist scientist, it wouldn't of been so pretty. Mr. Miller's claim that the only explanation creationists give is "That's the way the designer made it." is false. He may be talking only about what was stated in that trial, but it's not accurate overall at all. But....he had the floor, and entire attention from the audience.

Mr. Miller states that he is a Catholic, theist, etc. He said that God wouldn't decieve humanity, which I agree with. But how how do you think Mr. Miller would respond to questions like "Why did God allow thousands to die in an earthquake"?

The issue is whether or not this type of fusion is 'really' irrefutable evidence of common ancestry. Do 'you' really think it is? If you put aside Mr. Miller's strong compelling "come on", do you really think his claim is irrefutable? He seems to think that he can answer 'for' God when it comes to controversial 'scientific' questions. But will he back out of "ethical" questions, and just say "I don't know why God chooses to allow certain things"?

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