Science vs. Religion
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2378 Oct 27, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently you don’t think it possible for a Christian to change his beliefs. Don’t tell me I already know what you are going to say – if a Christian changes his beliefs he wasn’t a true Christian. And of course a Norse could say the same thing about someone that stopped believing in Odin, and it’s just as meaningless in either case.
I became a Christian twice before becoming a 'believer'. What do you mean by Christian?

I think each individual can answer the question personally as to the 'depth' of their belief is or was. Let's put it this way:

You believed in God, but now you don't. You believe that your next door neighbor exists, but do you think at some point you may believe that your neighbor 'doesn't' exist?
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2379 Oct 27, 2013
Big Al wrote:
1. <quoted text>
The problem is that Jesus and the Apostles lived in the province of Judea and most of the people of Judea were Jews except for some Samaritans and some Roman soldiers and officials. So who were all of these people who witnessed the resurrection? They, of course would mostly have been Jews. So why didn’t the news of a resurrected messiah spread like wildfire among the ordinary Jews who were waiting for the messiah? The reason is that they didn't exist.
<quoted text>

2. What you are saying is that the Ayatollah Khomeini believes in the accuracy of the Quran because of his personal biases, and I am saying that Clark Pinnock believes in the accuracy of the Bible because of your personal biases.
<quoted text>

3. I think that anyone that prays to a personal god thinks he/she has some sort of personal relationship to that god.
1. Because many of the ordinary Jews also rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

2. So you mean to tell me that with all those many quotes you've made there was no bias?

3.
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
3. Not necessarily. When someone orders something on-line, they are making a personal request 'without' interacting personally with the individuals involved with fulfilling that order request. One of the problems throughout the religious world is the human desire to satisfy a god 'without' interacting with the god in a 'relationship' level by performing duties, rituals, practices, etc. Some of that includes 'prayer'. Jesus addressed this problem when He addressed the issue of "vain repetitive praying".
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2380 Oct 27, 2013
Big Al wrote:
1. <quoted text>
That’s right Copernicus and Galileo saw no contradiction between science and the Bible because they (unlike Martin Luther and most of the other Bible bangers of that day) new that if there was any discrepancy between what the Bible said and the scientific evidence the understanding of the Bible must be wrong not the scientific evidence.
"It vexes me when they would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures…”- Galileo Galilei
It “vexes” me and the scientists of today that you and the creationists “would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures”.
<quoted text>

2. Scientists reject creationism because it is based on religious conviction not scientific evidence.
<quoted text>

3.“Expert testimony reveals that since the scientific revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries, science has been limited to the search for natural causes to explain natural phenomena." - December 20, 2005, Kitzmiller v. Dover
<quoted text>

4. Try telling a judge that you have multitudes of witnesses that “could” testify in your behalf but there not here. See how much weight he puts on that “evidence”.
<quoted text>

5. I think there is sufficient independent corroborating evidence that a Jewish teacher named Yeshua developed a following and was crucified in the first century. Apart from that there’s not much.
<quoted text>

“…with MOST SCHOLARS preferring the period 80-90.”– Dennis C. Duling
1. In the Letter to Christina, Galileo relied heavily on ideas taken from St. Augustine, who had cautioned Christians not to take literally those portions of the Bible that dealt with astronomy: wishing to convey spiritual truths to the faithful—who were usually unlearned—the Holy Spirit had employed popular language that was not meant to be scientifically correct. This notion is called “accommodation”(if you follow that link keep in mind that Galileo was almost certainly not reading Calvin), and Galileo used it to argue that Copernicanism is not heretical merely because it goes against the unadorned meaning of certain Scriptural passages. He also pointed out that heliocentrism had been proposed by a good Catholic (Copernicus), who had published his views at the encouragement of important Church officials.

http://biologos.org/blog/galileo-and-other-go...

2. Evolutionists (generally) reject creationism because they think it's 'only' based on religious conviction, and not scientific
evidence.

3. Yes, and those in the relative modern era claim they can interpret the constitution in regards to the alleged "Separation Of Church And State". We have a big problem of modern age bias attempting to interpret past history.

4. The problem at that time was if anyone proclaimed they believed in the resurrection, they were persecuted. Judges weren't looking objectively for evidence.

5. I also don't think that you would want the resurrection to be a reality. If you have bias against the resurrection, you will not admit to the resurrection being even a possibility. The implications are far too great.

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#2381 Oct 27, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
And NOWHERE in the Bible does 'death' mean 'cease to exist! Hell fire is eternal.
What BS.

Matthew 10:28
Jesus says, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Psalm 37:20.
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2382 Oct 27, 2013
Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
What BS.
Matthew 10:28
Jesus says, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Psalm 37:20.
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."
And still, neither mean 'cease to exist'.

Rev 20 They shall be tormented day and night FOREVER!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#2383 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
I repeat 'the eternal Hell fire is in every English Bible I know of.' What are your credentials to say all our English Bibles are wrong?
Well, I have never been reading in an English Bible but I am not saying that I didn’t read the Bible!
Maybe there are a lot of messed up ideas about it just because of all the different translations?

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#2384 Oct 28, 2013
It brings me back to one of my stick horses; this world is ruled by chaos, but chaos is always lining up into some kind of order sooner or later.

And that we, the humans, are by nature designed to operate and function in the best possible way for us in a rather chaotic world.
We have many different strategies for it, some are good and beneficial for most of us but we are also sometimes willing to take some nasty shortcuts for our own benefit and for the expenses of others.

Start to observe how people are moving and acting in their everyday lives and once you see how this chaotic system works then you will never forget it.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2385 Oct 28, 2013
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I have never been reading in an English Bible but I am not saying that I didn’t read the Bible!
Maybe there are a lot of messed up ideas about it just because of all the different translations?
And maybe it's YOUR ideas that are messed up.

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2386 Oct 28, 2013
Mr Ironhart wrote:
It brings me back to one of my stick horses; this world is ruled by chaos, but chaos is always lining up into some kind of order sooner or later.
And that we, the humans, are by nature designed to operate and function in the best possible way for us in a rather chaotic world.
We have many different strategies for it, some are good and beneficial for most of us but we are also sometimes willing to take some nasty shortcuts for our own benefit and for the expenses of others.
Start to observe how people are moving and acting in their everyday lives and once you see how this chaotic system works then you will never forget it.
Satan is the reason for havoc in this world.

'deceives the whole world'

Revelation 12:9 (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#2387 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
And still, neither mean 'cease to exist'.
Rev 20 They shall be tormented day and night FOREVER!
lair!!!!! That's for the devil and his false prophets not us humans.


Rev 20:10 Then the Devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I bet that is why you failed to post the verse of this.AKA you were bearing false witness.

Burn baby burn. See ya in HELL!!!

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#2388 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Satan is the reason for havoc in this world.
'deceives the whole world'
Revelation 12:9 (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
The god made devil. If god gave a $hit he would have cast the devil and his minions into the sun. What fun would that be having peace on earth. Boring!

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2389 Oct 28, 2013
Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
lair!!!!! That's for the devil and his false prophets not us humans.
Rev 20:10 Then the Devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
I bet that is why you failed to post the verse of this.AKA you were bearing false witness.
Burn baby burn. See ya in HELL!!!
Lair? LOL! Hell is for Bible haters like you, not Bible believers like me. When they come for you you will cry like a baby, FOREVER!

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2390 Oct 28, 2013
Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
The god made devil. If god gave a $hit he would have cast the devil and his minions into the sun. What fun would that be having peace on earth. Boring!
Proverbs 16:4 (NKJV)
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Smell the Coffee

Akron, OH

#2391 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Satan is the reason for havoc in this world.
'deceives the whole world'
Revelation 12:9 (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
No, you're the reason for havoc in the world.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2392 Oct 28, 2013
Smell the Coffee wrote:
<quoted text>No, you're the reason for havoc in the world.
Satan has deceived you. You will be his roommate FOREVER.

Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand,'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Smell the Coffee

Akron, OH

#2393 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Satan has deceived you. You will be his roommate FOREVER.
Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand,'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Well, that makes you a deceiver, liar and cursed.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2394 Oct 28, 2013
Smell the Coffee wrote:
<quoted text>Well, that makes you a deceiver, liar and cursed.
When you are locked up with Satan for eternity you will understand.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#2395 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
And maybe it's YOUR ideas that are messed up.
Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
These Bible verses are well known by me and I feel no fear at all because it will never happen to me or anyone else.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#2396 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Satan is the reason for havoc in this world.
'deceives the whole world'
Revelation 12:9 (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Everything that happens in this world has its natural causes.
It follows the laws of nature systematically step by step without any interference from supernatural forces included those described by religious sources.
The only way things could have developed until now is the way I have indicated here before.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2397 Oct 28, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>One way would be to leave actual traces...like we humans do!
I'm guessing that creation itself is not enough of a trace. What exactly would you consider to be valid traces?

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