Science vs. Religion
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2317 Oct 25, 2013
Big Al wrote:
1. <quoted text>
I know very well that Martin Luther was wrong. You are suggesting that he should not have relied on the Bible but on the science of Copernicus. I wholeheartedly agree. I think you and all other Creationists should take a lesson from Martin Luther about being so confident that your interpretation of the Bible is more accurate than science. After all when we talk about whether or not the Bible is accurate we are always talking about whether or not a certain interpretation is accurate.
<quoted text>

2. I understand perfectly that the sun appears to move and the earth doesn’t and that it was perfectly reasonable for people to believe that before the science of Copernicus and Galileo. However no one would have ever been able to figure out that the earth revolves around the sun by reading the Bible. To keep believing that the sun revolves around the earth and use the Bible as proof in the face of the scientific evidence is the problem. It’s the same problem we have to day with creationists in relation to evolution.
<quoted text>

When there are only two possibilities it is not always 50-50 that one or the other is true. My “speculation” is that it’s about 90 – 10 in favor of natural creation.
1. I don't deny that 'dogmatism' is a problem within the Christian world. However, there are Christians who understand the dangers of dogmatism. What is universal is the understanding that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God. Many converts become believers just through this introduction alone (often merely reading or hearing John 3:16, or just the simple truth that Jesus died for our sins). From there along the way they may develop certain doctrinal beliefs that may be right or wrong. There's a unifying universal truth that all Christians should unite under. Unfortunately, as warned by the Apostle Paul, divisions have arisen that should not be there. Differences in doctrines are inevitable but should not be divisive.

2. Whether or not someone can learn that the Earth revolves around the Sun from the Bible is irrelevant. It's very unlikely that anyone will learn how to fix their washing machine from reading the Bible (although I don't discount the possibility entirely).

As far as evolution and heliocentrism goes, again, the Bible doesn't contradict heliocentrism. Yes, the Bible 'does' contradict "molecule to man evolution". But there's also considerable flaws in evolution to the extent that one cannot claim that evolution proves creationism wrong. At best, all an evolutionist can say is "maybe one day...".
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2318 Oct 25, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>

When there are only two possibilities it is not always 50-50 that one or the other is true. My “speculation” is that it’s about 90 – 10 in favor of natural creation.
Very true. Out of curiosity, how would a creator "create naturally"?
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2319 Oct 25, 2013
Big Al wrote:
1. <quoted text>
Of course Copernicus (a Catholic priest) and Galileo were Christians who believed in “God” and looked to their religion for guidance in many areas of their lives, but their discoveries came from scientific observation and logical thinking not the Bible or their beliefs.
<quoted text>

2.“The formation of the Solar System is estimated to have begun 4.6 billion years ago with the gravitational collapse of a small part of a giant molecular cloud. Most of the collapsing mass collected in the centre, forming the Sun, while the rest flattened into a protoplanetary disk out of which the planets, moons, asteroids, and other small Solar System bodies formed.”– Wikipedia

3. I suppose you think the earth was just a rock floating around in empty space before “God” decided to create the sun.
<quoted text>

From the point of view of 99.9% of scientists familiar with the evidence it has worked very well for evolution. Of course to those not familiar with the evidence or those in denial no amount of evidence would be sufficient.
1. This doesn't mean that God did not, or they did not think that God 'guided' them to their discovery.

2. From my understanding you were implying that the Sun is (or definitely is) older than the Earth. Isn't that correct?

3. I don't know why you would think that. I don't even see that as necessarily being scriptural.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2320 Oct 25, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>

From the point of view of 99.9% of scientists familiar with the evidence it has worked very well for evolution. Of course to those not familiar with the evidence or those in denial no amount of evidence would be sufficient.
I would equate this with the resurrection issue. It really doesn't matter how much evidence there is, the denial will always be there as long there is breath in given persons.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#2321 Oct 25, 2013
Big Al wrote:
1. <quoted text>
“A personal god is a deity that can be related to or thought of as a person, through an anthropomorphic (having a human form or human attributes) persona, rather than an impersonal, and faceless, force of nature.”- Wikipedia
By definition a personal god has human characteristics and I don’t claim to know what an impersonal force could or could not do.
<quoted text>

2. Although there certainly are differences, in the sense that they are all unverified beliefs yes they are all the same.
<quoted text>

In the sense that they are all unverified beliefs yes they are all the same.
<quoted text>

3. There have always been people (priests, shaman, and oracles) that have claimed a special relationship with a deity. That doesn’t mean that ordinary people didn’t believe that they themselves didn’t or couldn’t have personal experiences with their deity.
<quoted text>

4. Telling me that “God” is in a certain spot in the Himalayan Mountains is not the same as proving there is a “God”. Only I can prove or disprove it to myself by going there.
<quoted text>

5. To say the least!
<quoted text>

And you claim to know for a fact that everyone that has ever searched for "God" has found "Him"? Talk about a bold claim.
<quoted text>

6. I do not want to spend my life believing in (like the Egyptians, the Norse, the Greeks and the Romans) or searching for an imaginary “God”. If there is a “God” and an afterlife I trust that we all will get exactly what we deserve regardless of what we happen to believe.
1. This leaves out the idea that humans actually may have "God" originated characteristics. Why does that 'have' to be ruled out?

2. Are they, like Zeus' thunderbolts (to you) laughable?

3. It may not mean it perse, but to make the claim we need evidence..facts.

4. From what I can tell you are correct. If you had to go to the Himalayas it wouldn't mean that proof could not be provided. It just means that the person making the claim is limited in his ability to prove it. You would have to take certain initiatives.

5. I can tell you that many have searched for God, and have found Him. Since there are many variables (someone can claim to search and not really be searching, etc.), the statement really has to be personalized. It's not a challenge to someone else so much as it is to the reader.

6. That's probably the big problem. If you don't want to search for an "imaginary" God, your desire at this point is probably fairly minute. However, since you do spend a lot of time on a Christian forum, Christianity does seem to be a big part of your existence even if from an opposing stance. Skepticism by no means ensures continual non-belief.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2322 Oct 25, 2013
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>
L'Enfer, the lake of fire, it sounds more like a volcanic lake of lava, some kind of “scare crow” for the naughty children.
Yeah, it's for you. And your belief is not required.

Revelation 20:15 (NKJV)
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2323 Oct 25, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Uh...no its so not! Not even close.
So you choose to believe in LYING evolutionists.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2324 Oct 25, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Again you negate the belief that free-will exists, or would even matter...thanks. Always easier to let the true Believers deconstruct their Religion for what it is...a pack of lies.
When you are burning in Hell you will understand.

Proverbs 16:4 (NKJV)
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2325 Oct 25, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>The reason for you, is that you actually and truly believe your God acts on your advice.
You are a Bible worshiper first and foremost...there is no love, or living God in your life, just a devotion to a book full of myths.
The reason your posts are FILLED with lies:

John 8:44 (NKJV)
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2326 Oct 25, 2013
The truth works wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is this lake of fire?
Where is this Book of Life?
Or are these just metaphors subject to interpretation?
If these are metaphors, then many things in the bible are metaphorical, right?
If they are not metaphors then please tell everyone where these things are.
When you are burning in Hell you will understand.

Since: Jul 11

Fargo, North Dakota

#2327 Oct 25, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
I would equate this with the resurrection issue. It really doesn't matter how much evidence there is, the denial will always be there as long there is breath in given persons.
I'd be interested in hearing the evidence you have showing the resurrection of Jesus Christ actually happened if you care to share it.

Since: Jul 11

Fargo, North Dakota

#2328 Oct 25, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
When you are burning in Hell you will understand.
Your love is missing in your hellish posts, do you know what will happen to you for that?

Mat 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
The truth works

United States

#2329 Oct 25, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
When you are burning in Hell you will understand.
You are a very strange person.
Why don't you have any thoughts of your own? Just curious.
Don't you want to have thoughts of your own?
You don't know where the lake of fire is, do you?

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#2330 Oct 25, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, it's for you. And your belief is not required.
Revelation 20:15 (NKJV)
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Your book is still a limited edition and its contents known only to those few who have been reading or even fewer who could comprehend what is written in it. My book is for every one to see, it is written in the nature surrounding every one of us, and unless people are blinded by the wrong stories then it is very simple to understand for everybody.
I know for sure what is coming in afterlife, the same place where we all are coming from, I have been there before and it is certainly not “a lake of fire”.
Open your eyes to see reality!

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2331 Oct 25, 2013
Skeeeptical wrote:
<quoted text>
Your love is missing in your hellish posts, do you know what will happen to you for that?
Mat 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
I believe Jesus O Biblical IGNORAMUS! You just proved you are a HYPOCRITE!

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2332 Oct 25, 2013
The truth works wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a very strange person.
Why don't you have any thoughts of your own? Just curious.
Don't you want to have thoughts of your own?
You don't know where the lake of fire is, do you?
Why don't you believe Jesus?

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2333 Oct 25, 2013
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>
Your book is still a limited edition
I have never wrote a book.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#2334 Oct 25, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never wrote a book.
I was referring to the Bible, sorry for not being more precise!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#2335 Oct 25, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never wrote a book.
Well 15 415 postings here could be quite a thick book by itself!

Since: Jul 11

Fargo, North Dakota

#2336 Oct 26, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe Jesus O Biblical IGNORAMUS! You just proved you are a HYPOCRITE!
By your own words you just condemned yourself to hell (according to your book). I have sympathy for you.

Mat 7:20 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Mat 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

Mat 7:3 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

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