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Since: Feb 10

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#1965
Apr 27, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to clarify: lack of evidence doesn't demonstrate the untruth of the claim; it merely justifies rejection of the claim.
"I have a million dollars in my pocket." If I provide no evidence, does that make my claim false? Of course not. It very well might be true (assuming that I have extremely large pockets, or a check). But, if I make a claim that is out of the ordinary, and provide zero evidence to support it, you have no rational justification to accept my claim as true, so you reject my claim. It could still be true, but you would be right not to accept it.
Or, an Atheist Experience example: a jar is filled with jellybeans. The number of jellybeans is either even or odd. I claim that the number is even. I have no evidence to support my claim. I may be right, but I haven't provided you a rational reason to accept it, so you rightly reject it.
Don't conflate rejecting a claim with the claim being untrue. Not the same thing.
I was speaking about logically true, not true in reality.

An argument based on an unproved premise is a logical fallacy - begging the question, as I'm sure you know.

In the case of the existence of God, however, we can easily dismantle every argument ever put forward for his existence simply by examining the definition of "God."

In every instance, the way believers define God it ends up as a five-sided square.

If I side I could draw a five-sided square but failed to prove it, is that an unproved claim or a false claim? Of course it is false, since by definition a square must have four equal sides.

Whenever a believer tells me that their God knows the future AND that their God granted them free will, it's very easy to prove that that particular God cannot exist.

When a believer claims that their God is always just yet sometimes merciful, it's very easy again to prove that that particular God cannot exist.

The God of the Deists is probably the toughest one to disprove, since the only act attributed to that God is the creation of the cosmos. The God of the Deists doesn't have a personality or an agenda, and as no claims are made about that God there is nothing to prove or disprove.

The Christian God is another story entirely, and it is that God which I will continue to debunk as a myth in these forums.

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#1968
Apr 27, 2013
 

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little lamb wrote:
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No..I know beyond doubt there is a god..
What you are saying is you doubt there is a god..not me.
Since you know beyond any doubt that there is a God, you should easily be able to define him.

Is he a God of pure goodness, or is he capable of evil as well?

Is he always just, or sometimes merciful?

Does he know the future? Did he give humans free will to change the future?

How did Satan go from being an angel of light to the Prince of Darkness? Was there a flaw in Satan when God created him or did something external influence him and compel him to turn against God? What was that external influence, and where did it come from?

These are just some of the basic question you should be able to answer about your God.

If you cannot satisfactorily answer these questions then you cannot claim to know your God exists beyond any doubt. The best you can do is admit you don't know much abut your God, and that you pray to a God that you HOPE exists and hope that you are right about the way he wants to be worshiped.
15th Dalai Lama

Albuquerque, NM

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#1969
Apr 27, 2013
 

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little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
No..I know beyond doubt there is a god..
What you are saying is you doubt there is a god..not me.
I am challenging a weak argument. How do you know 'beyond doubt' there is a god?

God bless you.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

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#1970
Apr 27, 2013
 

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downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Last time I checked an agnostic was not an atheist and all I ever claimed was that Einstein was not an atheist.
Neither an agnostic nor an atheist believes in a god. An agnostic allows for the possibility of the existence of some type of god while an atheist doesn’t. The difference can be seen in this quote by self-professed agnostic Carl Sagan…

“An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence.”
little lamb

Australia

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#1971
Apr 27, 2013
 

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HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>

Anyone who claims that X exists has the burden of proof. That means it's up to the person making the claim to prove that his claim is true, by providing evidence as proof.
If someone says that invisible monkeys exist, then that person has to prove they do. The person claiming that invisible monkeys exist has the burden of proof. It's not up to the other person to prove they don't exist.
Now back to God. You say that God exists, and so you have the burden of proof. In order for me to accept your claim as true you must provide evidence as proof.
If you have no evidence then your claim is untrue.
And since you have no evidence that God exists, your claim is untrue.
It's really that simple.
Jesus said " Unless anyone is born of spirit he can not see the kingdom of God."

To a physical man the things of God are foolishness to him because they are examined spiritually..

However you are rational enough to know what "Law" is..

And we warn you break Gods Law, and he will bring destruction upon you..and he will destroy those in authority that over rule his authority

Because all authority stands in it relative position by God.

Man in authoritative positions have a greater authority over them.

you are free to accept or reject that warning..nevertheless we are to give it.
little lamb

Australia

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#1972
Apr 27, 2013
 

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HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you know beyond any doubt that there is a God, you should easily be able to define him.
Is he a God of pure goodness, or is he capable of evil as well?
Is he always just, or sometimes merciful?
Does he know the future? Did he give humans free will to change the future?
How did Satan go from being an angel of light to the Prince of Darkness? Was there a flaw in Satan when God created him or did something external influence him and compel him to turn against God? What was that external influence, and where did it come from?
These are just some of the basic question you should be able to answer about your God.
If you cannot satisfactorily answer these questions then you cannot claim to know your God exists beyond any doubt. The best you can do is admit you don't know much abut your God, and that you pray to a God that you HOPE exists and hope that you are right about the way he wants to be worshiped.
What are you going on about...????

LOL..

Doesn't matter what I say does it..

it is written Jesus the only begotten son in the bosom of the Father is the one that explains him, to us..

may I recommend listening to what Jesus has to say...

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

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#1973
Apr 27, 2013
 

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HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
What you know, and what is true, are/can be two different things.
They have to be, otherwise anything that anyone knows is therefore is true, and that leads to nothing but contradiction.
I know that Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy, and you he didn't. Both cannot be true. It is impossible for Lee Harvey Oswald to have killed JFK and not killed him at the same time.
You tell me that, since I can't prove God doesn't exist, he must therefore exist.
Well, I said the same to you: if you cannot prove you aren't a child molester, then you are.
You can't twist the rules of logic to your benefit and not expect to be called on it.
Become a believer and you will have the 'proof' required...
Thinking

Stockbridge, UK

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#1974
Apr 27, 2013
 

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i.e. none?

Your "jam tomorrow" god...
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Become a believer and you will have the 'proof' required...

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

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#1975
Apr 27, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you're saying prayers don't change what God is going to do, therefore prayer is ineffectual, and it's merely false attribution. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, I stated that the 'end' result is the same...
15th Dalai Lama

Albuquerque, NM

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#1976
Apr 27, 2013
 

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NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Become a believer and you will have the 'proof' required...
How does one become a believer?
mztza

Mesa, AZ

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#1983
Apr 27, 2013
 

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ILUVSATAN wrote:
<quoted text>
cute story... did mommy tell you that one?.... now get your cookies and milk and say goodnight...and don't forget your prayers....Monday the short yellow bus will pick you up again...
you've just drowned yourself
little lamb

Australia

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#1987
Apr 27, 2013
 

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15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
I am challenging a weak argument. How do you know 'beyond doubt' there is a god?
God bless you.
1 John 5 [10] The person putting his faith in the son of God , has the witness given, in his own case....."
little lamb

Australia

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#1989
Apr 27, 2013
 
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
How does one become a believer?
" Faith comes from hearing..and hearing the word about Christ"

The gospels are about the fact ?" That God loved the world so much he sent his only begotten son, that whomsoever exercises faith in him, shall not perish but have everlasting life."

Whoever has the son has this life...

He was prophesied about by the Jewish prophet Isaiah

Isaiah 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of Jehovah been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.....continue
little lamb

Australia

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#1990
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Isaiah 53 continued..

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was Jehovah's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though Jehovah makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of Jehovah will prosper in his hand.

11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

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#1991
Apr 27, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
No no no...you said God is the universe. Now, you're saying God created the universe. If God created the universe, and God IS the universe, then God created himself, which is a logical contradiction.
Make up your mind about what your God is. Then, once you do that, demonstrate its existence.
NO, no, no, no.
You've muddled things up and got it all convoluted.
You are having difficulty comprehending the written word. It's no wonder you're so confused.

In post #1908 I wrote:

"Who or What do you envision God as?

Hopefully not some white haired, bearded man sitting on a thrown floating on clouds.
That's a lot of literary flourish.

God Is the Universe because the Universe is of God.

God is in molecules because all things are created by God.

God separates chaos from order, thus one of the reasons Higg's boson is dubbed the god particle. It maintains a barrier between matter and anti-matter, therefore allowing the natural order we dwell in to be fairly reliable in cause and effect.

This power, this creator of parameters, we call God.
God is big, God is small, God is all in all."

How could you screw that up so badly just going from your eyes to your mind?
little lamb

Australia

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#1992
Apr 27, 2013
 

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So Isaiah wrote this prophesy many believe about

680 years before Christ.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

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#1993
Apr 27, 2013
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither an agnostic nor an atheist believes in a god. An agnostic allows for the possibility of the existence of some type of god while an atheist doesn’t. The difference can be seen in this quote by self-professed agnostic Carl Sagan…
“An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence.”
But then an agnostic doesn't necessarily disbelieve in God either. A person can believe in a god without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism.

Agnostic theism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. An agnostic theist believes in the existence of at least one deity, but regards the basis of this proposition as unknown or inherently unknowable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

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#1994
Apr 27, 2013
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither an agnostic nor an atheist believes in a god. An agnostic allows for the possibility of the existence of some type of god while an atheist doesn’t. The difference can be seen in this quote by self-professed agnostic Carl Sagan…
“An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence.”
Sagan was using the "gnostic atheist" as atheist in that quote. There are agnostic atheists, gnostic atheists, gnostic theists, agnostic theists. Belief and knowledge are not the same. One can believe without knowledge, one can disbelieve without knowledge, one can believe with knowledge, and one can disbelieve with knowledge.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

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#1995
Apr 27, 2013
 
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
NO, no, no, no.
You've muddled things up and got it all convoluted.
You are having difficulty comprehending the written word. It's no wonder you're so confused.
In post #1908 I wrote:
"Who or What do you envision God as?
Hopefully not some white haired, bearded man sitting on a thrown floating on clouds.
That's a lot of literary flourish.
God Is the Universe because the Universe is of God.
God is in molecules because all things are created by God.
God separates chaos from order, thus one of the reasons Higg's boson is dubbed the god particle. It maintains a barrier between matter and anti-matter, therefore allowing the natural order we dwell in to be fairly reliable in cause and effect.
This power, this creator of parameters, we call God.
God is big, God is small, God is all in all."
How could you screw that up so badly just going from your eyes to your mind?
Sperm are "of" man, therefore man is sperm?

Sorry, but word salad isn't a definition, nor is it meaningful. Define or admit ambiguity.

Since: Feb 10

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#1996
Apr 27, 2013
 
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus said " Unless anyone is born of spirit he can not see the kingdom of God."
To a physical man the things of God are foolishness to him because they are examined spiritually..
However you are rational enough to know what "Law" is..
And we warn you break Gods Law, and he will bring destruction upon you..and he will destroy those in authority that over rule his authority
Because all authority stands in it relative position by God.
Man in authoritative positions have a greater authority over them.
you are free to accept or reject that warning..nevertheless we are to give it.
Yet another meaningless answer. You have zero evidence that your God exists, and you know it.

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