"I’m saying GOD doesn’t exist!"
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#1921 Apr 26, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
That "higher power" was the workings of the universe. Spinoza's God. Not some supernatural being.
Your argument is Einstein said the workings of the universe constitute a "higher" power and my argument is Einstein said the cause of the workings of the universe constitute a "higher" power.

When asked if he believed in Spinoza's God-

"I can't answer with a simple yes or no. I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws.......
Albert Einstein

"I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The human mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand dimensions are as one."
Albert Einstein

"Every one who is seriously engaged in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that the laws of nature manifest the existence of a spirit vastly superior to that of men, and one in which we with our modest powers must feel humble"
Albert Einstein

Straight forward logic says he is not an atheist because he says so, he doesn't believe he is a pantheist because he says so, and that he is referring to a higher power behind the workings of the universe, behind the laws of nature, again, because he says so.
little lamb

Australia

#1922 Apr 26, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you folks make the claims, it's up to you to provide proof.
You never do. All you do is ask us to disprove them.
Let's say that I claimed that you are a child molester, and I insisted that it isn't up to me to prove it. I know for a fact it's true, and it's up to YOU to prove you aren't a child molester.
Would you be okay with that scenario? I doubt it, yet that is exactly the position you put us in when you demand that we prove the non-existence of your God.
And you are right, we cannot debate people like you, since you are egotistical, self-righteous, illogical, irrational, in denial, and unable to back up your claims.
So let's agree to disagree: I can't prove your God doesn't exist, and you can't prove you aren't a child molester.
Therefore your God does exist and you are in fact a child molester.
And since your God despises child molesters and damns them all to hell, you're f-cked.
You have made one big assumption...No human being is put in the position of proving God exists to another

Each of us individually is given a witness, by God in our own case..

Our work is to preach the word..and you are free to accept or reject...

So we plant and we water..but it is only God that makes it grow.

we know from Gods word that men whose works are evil , don't come to the light..because the light shows up their works as wicked

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1923 Apr 26, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your argument is Einstein said the workings of the universe constitute a "higher" power and my argument is Einstein said the cause of the workings of the universe constitute a "higher" power.
When asked if he believed in Spinoza's God-
"I can't answer with a simple yes or no. I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws.......
Albert Einstein
"I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The human mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand dimensions are as one."
Albert Einstein
"Every one who is seriously engaged in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that the laws of nature manifest the existence of a spirit vastly superior to that of men, and one in which we with our modest powers must feel humble"
Albert Einstein
Straight forward logic says he is not an atheist because he says so, he doesn't believe he is a pantheist because he says so, and that he is referring to a higher power behind the workings of the universe, behind the laws of nature, again, because he says so.
Yet, he says he does not believe in God, or supernatural beings. That is, by definition, atheism. Either one does believe in such (theist) or does not (atheist). He did not. QED.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1924 Apr 26, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
You have made one big assumption...No human being is put in the position of proving God exists to another
Each of us individually is given a witness, by God in our own case..
Our work is to preach the word..and you are free to accept or reject...
So we plant and we water..but it is only God that makes it grow.
we know from Gods word that men whose works are evil , don't come to the light..because the light shows up their works as wicked
So, you don't have to prove your claims are true, but you assert they are true, you act upon such beliefs, and you want others to join you in such beliefs without any rational justification for them.

Just show us why your religious beliefs are true. If you have no rational justification for your beliefs, admit it. If you do, share them. I do suggest you find out what "rational" means.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#1925 Apr 26, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet, he says he does not believe in God, or supernatural beings. That is, by definition, atheism. Either one does believe in such (theist) or does not (atheist). He did not. QED.
He certainly doesn't believe in the Judeo Christian concept of God but that doesn't make him an atheist. He says he believes in a "higher" power which would be his own concept of the supernatural.

A poll of scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in May and June 2009, found that 51% of scientists believe in God or a higher power.To be more precise, 33% believe in God, 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. 41% did not believe in God or a higher power and 7% refused to answer. Let's call those that responded group A, B and C. Christian scientists and others that believe in a personal God would be in group A. Einstein if still alive would be found in group B, atheists, who do not believe in God or a higher power, in group C.
Thinking

Blandford Forum, UK

#1926 Apr 26, 2013
Yes you are.

Imagine there actually is a god, but it prefers to reward the sceptical amongst us.

You can't disprove that.

So you're gambling too.
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Call it what you like...I'm not a gamblin' man...

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1927 Apr 26, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
He certainly doesn't believe in the Judeo Christian concept of God but that doesn't make him an atheist. He says he believes in a "higher" power which would be his own concept of the supernatural.
A poll of scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in May and June 2009, found that 51% of scientists believe in God or a higher power.To be more precise, 33% believe in God, 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. 41% did not believe in God or a higher power and 7% refused to answer. Let's call those that responded group A, B and C. Christian scientists and others that believe in a personal God would be in group A. Einstein if still alive would be found in group B, atheists, who do not believe in God or a higher power, in group C.
Theism, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists.[1] In a more specific sense, theism is commonly a monotheistic doctrine concerning the nature of a deity, and that deity's relationship to the universe.[2][3][4][5] Theism, in this specific sense, conceives of God as personal, present and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe.(wiki)

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.(wiki)

A deity (Listeni/&#712;di&#720 ;.&#616;ti/ or Listeni/&#712;de&#618; .&#616;ti/)[1] is a being, natural, supernatural or preternatural, with superhuman powers or qualities, and who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred.(wiki)

Einstein was an atheist. It doesn't matter if he called himself one. The fact of what he said he believed and what he said he didn't believe describes him explicitly as an atheist.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#1928 Apr 26, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that he didn't believe in a personal god does not mean he didn't believe in a higher power.
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human understanding, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."
Prince Hubertus zu Löwenstein, Towards the Further Shore (Victor Gollancz, London, 1968), p. 156; quoted in Jammer
He, as an agnostic, allowed for the possibility of the existence of some incomprehensible creative force but he considered the “God” you (and most other religious people) believe in childish superstition.

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition." — Albert Einstein, March 3, 1954, letter to Erik Gutkind
mztza

Mesa, AZ

#1930 Apr 26, 2013
there's a story,
a mans house got flooded, and he perched himself on the roof waiting for got to rescue him,
unfortunately he wasn't a believer
one man came in a little canoe, to rescue him, he said no thankyou
a second man came in a bigger boat, offering help, again he said no thankyou
the third time a helicopter came to rescue him, he said no thankyou,
finally, the man drowned,
went to heaven, he asked GOD, why didn't you help me
GOD spoke, i heard your calling out to me,
i sent three rescues for you, and you refused
the point is, GOD helps us in so many ways, without us
REALISING
how GOD does it,
when that little voice or feeling, tells us to beware,
is it us or is it GOD


“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1932 Apr 26, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you folks make the claims, it's up to you to provide proof.
You never do. All you do is ask us to disprove them.
Let's say that I claimed that you are a child molester, and I insisted that it isn't up to me to prove it. I know for a fact it's true, and it's up to YOU to prove you aren't a child molester.
Would you be okay with that scenario? I doubt it, yet that is exactly the position you put us in when you demand that we prove the non-existence of your God.
And you are right, we cannot debate people like you, since you are egotistical, self-righteous, illogical, irrational, in denial, and unable to back up your claims.
So let's agree to disagree: I can't prove your God doesn't exist, and you can't prove you aren't a child molester.
Therefore your God does exist and you are in fact a child molester.
And since your God despises child molesters and damns them all to hell, you're f-cked.
There's nothing to prove...don't you get it? Your 'claims' that we need to prove it...prove what? you are debating faith / prayer / GOD...you're the one who keeps bringing up these stupid scenarios thinking in your (so called) highly evolved mind and then making it sound like we are the ones claiming...
I am NOT 'egotistical', I am NOT self-righteous'...now my wife may think at times I am illogical and irrational...but I could claim all those about you and others...

I do have 2 up on you tho...I know GOD exists and I KNOW I am NOT a child molestor...the only one 'f-cked' here is you...Peace Out...

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1933 Apr 26, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you think I'm making up, the fact that Hindus have seen some amazing things happen too when they pray to Ganesh, Vishnu, Krishna, etc.?
If so then you are clearly ignorant, in which case you should get off your high horse and humble yourself.
Actually, my motto in life is to 'fly below radar'...

Translation; I don't give a flying leap about anyone but me when it comes to their personal life...

Remember,'fly below radar'...= no high horse...

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1934 Apr 26, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
It was proven to us that you fondle the genitals of three-year-olds.
That's all we need.
Checkmate, you ignorant pissant blowhard.
Well good, you've proven nothing...but we knew that already...and talk about an ignorant pissant blowhard...that's rich...

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1935 Apr 26, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Like it or not you gamble every day.
Every time you go to sleep at night you are gambling. You're betting that you will wake up the next day.
Every time you take a bite of food you are gambling. You;re betting that there is nothing harmful in the food that can harm you or kill you.
And every time you touch the genitals of a three-year-old you are gambling. You're betting that no one will catch you in the act, or that the child won't squeal.
So you see, you are a gamblin' man after all.
And eventually one day your luck will run out.
Gambling? that's good...

I don't bet about waking the next day...I am at Peace...
I don't wonder about the food I eat...I KNOW GOD provides...
No three y/o in my family...a 5 and 3 month old...you lose...

I noticed you seem to be a little more agitated than normal...new book not selling?

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1936 Apr 26, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Yes you are.
Imagine there actually is a god, but it prefers to reward the sceptical amongst us.
You can't disprove that.
So you're gambling too.
<quoted text>
The part that fails here tho is this: you asked me to imagine...

Next!

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1937 Apr 26, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you're saying your God can be swayed by requests, which means he was going to do something else but changed his mind, which means he either doesn't know better than we do or he can be wrong.
Or, you're merely praying with aspirin. The result is going to happen anyway, and you're attributing the result to the request despite it being an inevitability.
Which is it? Fallible God or false attribution?
Nope, I didn't state 'swayed'...

Look at it this way:

The simplified heart pumps out of 1 artery, from there it disperses to all of the body. From all of the body, it transitions back to 1 artery.

No starting route 'main arter'y (situations, prayers, etc) is set, yet there are infinite ways (dispersion) to the end result '1 artery' or HIS will...

Verstehst Du?

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1938 Apr 26, 2013
Hardie-Har-Har wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanx for associating me in a great company of realists and humorists!
But, aside from your asides, we do note that you, the religious phony, are busy with teensy bee stings,.. by which,.. you continue to avoid, or attempt to avoid, LowellGuy's poignant question to you; i.e.,
"Why your god can't heal real deformities and illnesses, like AMPUTEES!"
and, "What are those 'AMAZING' prayer-cures that U claim to have seen?"
Duhh???... Post your next avoidance-like "Chubby Checker Twist", ND!
Hardie-Har-Har!
How do you know HE doesn't heal 'real deformities'? Ever hear of surgeons? Doctors? Amputees? Not sure about that one...never heard HE did or didn't. If HE didn't, maybe HE's not a 'showboater'...

NEXT!

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1939 Apr 26, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Prayer has no power whatsoever. It doesn't change the outcome of anything. Every single scientific study of prayer has shown that praying has no different effect than not praying.
And as I pointed out, if God's will decrees that X will take place, you cannot change that. If you can change that then God's will is weak, and you end up with a God who isn't very godly after all.
If I were a Christian I would hope that prayer did NOT work, because if it did then I would have to conclude that we can change God's mind, which makes us wiser than him, which renders God meaningless.
Again, you state "Prayer has no power whatsoever" Proof?
Didn't think so...
You don't 'believe' in GOD, so how do you know what HIS will is or even if it's decreed?
With that being said, the rest of your point is well, pointless...

Since: Dec 09

Chicago, IL

#1940 Apr 26, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Yes you are.
Imagine there actually is a god, but it prefers to reward the sceptical amongst us.
You can't disprove that.
So you're gambling too.
<quoted text>
Thinking: "Imagine there actually is a god, but it prefers to reward the sceptical amongst us."

I'll venture to say God as much delights in the sceptics' earnestness in Him being not, as He does the believers' certainty that He is!
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#1941 Apr 26, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
He, as an agnostic, allowed for the possibility of the existence of some incomprehensible creative force but he considered the “God” you (and most other religious people) believe in childish superstition.
"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition." — Albert Einstein, March 3, 1954, letter to Erik Gutkind


Last time I checked an agnostic was not an atheist and all I ever claimed was that Einstein was not an atheist.
little lamb

Australia

#1942 Apr 26, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you don't have to prove your claims are true, but you assert they are true, you act upon such beliefs, and you want others to join you in such beliefs without any rational justification for them.
Just show us why your religious beliefs are true. If you have no rational justification for your beliefs, admit it. If you do, share them. I do suggest you find out what "rational" means.
No we can be wrong ..that is why we preach Christ...

And it is him, that we believe died for us, and by his blood is forgiveness of sins

That is what we preach to you.

Now its up to you to come and learn of Christ and find out for yourself

That is why scripture states that God gives us the witness in our own case..because we believe the message ...you have to examine it yourself..the gospels are available to all and sundry and we preach the gospels.

If you conclude the gospels are not true..then I turn away from you..and you are free to go..because a believer and an unbeliever have nothing in common.

Do you believe the gospel...that there is forgiveness of your sins by what Christ has accomplished for you??

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