"I’m saying GOD doesn’t exist!"

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1857 Apr 24, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Precisely my point. Einstein believed in God.
Thank you for the affirmation.
Madscot is mistaken. Einstein was an atheist. He didn't believe in any gods. He did believe in "Spinoza's God," which is merely a catch-all for the wonder of the workings of the universe. He didn't refer to himself as an atheist, but as an agnostic, but if one were to ask him if he believed in God, or any other supernatural beings, his letters make it abundantly clear his answer would have been "no." Lack of belief in God or gods is atheism. He was an agnostic atheist.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1858 Apr 24, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
All the intelligent people here disagree with you.
You know why?
Because you don't comprehend the context of Einstein's statement.
But...thanks for giving us all a laugh at your expense.
I posted several quotes from his letters, and a link to a page with lots of excerpts from his letters, describing his lack of belief in any kind of supernatural beings. In what context do those say the exact opposite of what they appear to be saying? Do please explain.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1859 Apr 24, 2013
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
Einstein wasn't an atheist.
He was a "cultural Jew" at best. But, he was certainly an atheist. Judaism is a rare beast in that it has within itself various beliefs regarding God, all of which are considered acceptable. There are atheistic Jews, and Judaism recognizes them as Jews. He didn't have to be a theist to still be considered a Jew.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1860 Apr 24, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
We all know that two plus two is four
Oh, see, there's the problem...you assumed. Prove that two plus two is four. Beyond that, prove that two plus two cannot be five.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1861 Apr 24, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
"The highest principles for our aspirations and judgments are given to us in the Jewish-Christian religious tradition. It is a very high goal which, with our weak powers, we can reach only very inadequately, but which gives a sure foundation to our aspirations and valuations. If one were to take that goal out of its religious form and look merely at its purely human side, one might state it perhaps thus: free and responsible development of the individual, so that he may place his powers freely and gladly in the service of all mankind. "
Albert Einstein
Address at Princeton Theological Seminary,
May 29, 1939; published in Out of My Later Years, New York: Philosophical Library, 1950.
LOL.
Right. He's saying that God is unnecessary when it comes to the good things that come from religion. Maybe you should learn to read before you say things.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1862 Apr 24, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? They don't sell Fig Newtons where you are?
I remember the first time I had one. I was like, "Hmmm, that's odd".
They're like an orgy in your mouth.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#1863 Apr 24, 2013
This is one of the reasons why I am in these forums. This story epitomizes the nadir of evangelical/fundamentalist Christian arrogance:

"Couple's 2nd Child Dies After They Chose Prayer Over Medical Help"

"A Pennsylvania couple is accused of letting a second child die by refusing to seek medical medical treatment and relying on the power of prayer.

"The case has drawn national attention because it's the second time the couple is accused of this crime. Herbert and Catherine Schaible are on probation for the 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, who died of pneumonia. They're now accused of allowing their 8-month-old son to die after he suffered diarrhea and breathing problems.

"The couple's probation required them to seek medical care for their other seven kids. That allowed them to avoided jail even though they were convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

"The Schaibles are members of the First Century Gospel Church, which believes in treating illnesses with prayer, and that seeking medical treatment is a sin."

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/5745-couple ...
--------

This story illustrates why belief in Satan, God, sin, and the "power" of prayer are dangerous things. Two little children who could have been saved died for no reason, because their parents believed in the lies that evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity spreads.

Why haven't any moderate or liberal Christians spoken out about this?

Are you afraid to admit that praying is NOT an effective way of healing a sick child?

Are you afraid to admit that medicine and science are efficacious, whereas prayer is ineffective?

I am really angry at the Christian community, and at local Philadelphia law enforcement, for its failure to prevent this terrible tragedy.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1864 Apr 24, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
This is one of the reasons why I am in these forums. This story epitomizes the nadir of evangelical/fundamentalist Christian arrogance:
"Couple's 2nd Child Dies After They Chose Prayer Over Medical Help"
"A Pennsylvania couple is accused of letting a second child die by refusing to seek medical medical treatment and relying on the power of prayer.
"The case has drawn national attention because it's the second time the couple is accused of this crime. Herbert and Catherine Schaible are on probation for the 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, who died of pneumonia. They're now accused of allowing their 8-month-old son to die after he suffered diarrhea and breathing problems.
"The couple's probation required them to seek medical care for their other seven kids. That allowed them to avoided jail even though they were convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
"The Schaibles are members of the First Century Gospel Church, which believes in treating illnesses with prayer, and that seeking medical treatment is a sin."
http://politix.topix.com/homepage/5745-couple ...
--------
This story illustrates why belief in Satan, God, sin, and the "power" of prayer are dangerous things. Two little children who could have been saved died for no reason, because their parents believed in the lies that evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity spreads.
Why haven't any moderate or liberal Christians spoken out about this?
Are you afraid to admit that praying is NOT an effective way of healing a sick child?
Are you afraid to admit that medicine and science are efficacious, whereas prayer is ineffective?
I am really angry at the Christian community, and at local Philadelphia law enforcement, for its failure to prevent this terrible tragedy.
If moderate Christians admit that prayer can't treat medical problems, they're admitting that prayer is ineffective as a means of invoking God's intercession. Intercessory prayer is a cornerstone of "faith" among moderate Christians. Take away any effectiveness and you have, essentially, taken away all effectiveness.

Also, this: http://youtu.be/eO3SDlIivcQ

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1865 Apr 24, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
This is one of the reasons why I am in these forums. This story epitomizes the nadir of evangelical/fundamentalist Christian arrogance:
"Couple's 2nd Child Dies After They Chose Prayer Over Medical Help"
"A Pennsylvania couple is accused of letting a second child die by refusing to seek medical medical treatment and relying on the power of prayer.
"The case has drawn national attention because it's the second time the couple is accused of this crime. Herbert and Catherine Schaible are on probation for the 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, who died of pneumonia. They're now accused of allowing their 8-month-old son to die after he suffered diarrhea and breathing problems.
"The couple's probation required them to seek medical care for their other seven kids. That allowed them to avoided jail even though they were convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
"The Schaibles are members of the First Century Gospel Church, which believes in treating illnesses with prayer, and that seeking medical treatment is a sin."
http://politix.topix.com/homepage/5745-couple ...
--------
This story illustrates why belief in Satan, God, sin, and the "power" of prayer are dangerous things. Two little children who could have been saved died for no reason, because their parents believed in the lies that evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity spreads.
Why haven't any moderate or liberal Christians spoken out about this?
Are you afraid to admit that praying is NOT an effective way of healing a sick child?
Are you afraid to admit that medicine and science are efficacious, whereas prayer is ineffective?
I am really angry at the Christian community, and at local Philadelphia law enforcement, for its failure to prevent this terrible tragedy.
Very sad indeed...

My belief is that GOD provides, be it food, water, medicine, etc...

Not sure where these people are coming from...

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1866 Apr 24, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
If moderate Christians admit that prayer can't treat medical problems, they're admitting that prayer is ineffective as a means of invoking God's intercession. Intercessory prayer is a cornerstone of "faith" among moderate Christians. Take away any effectiveness and you have, essentially, taken away all effectiveness.
Also, this: http://youtu.be/eO3SDlIivcQ
Wrong, we pray for the sick all of the time and leave it to GOD's will whether HE will heal them or not...it's not our plan, but HIS...

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1867 Apr 24, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
This is one of the reasons why I am in these forums. This story epitomizes the nadir of evangelical/fundamentalist Christian arrogance:
"Couple's 2nd Child Dies After They Chose Prayer Over Medical Help"
"A Pennsylvania couple is accused of letting a second child die by refusing to seek medical medical treatment and relying on the power of prayer.
"The case has drawn national attention because it's the second time the couple is accused of this crime. Herbert and Catherine Schaible are on probation for the 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, who died of pneumonia. They're now accused of allowing their 8-month-old son to die after he suffered diarrhea and breathing problems.
"The couple's probation required them to seek medical care for their other seven kids. That allowed them to avoided jail even though they were convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
"The Schaibles are members of the First Century Gospel Church, which believes in treating illnesses with prayer, and that seeking medical treatment is a sin."
http://politix.topix.com/homepage/5745-couple ...
--------
This story illustrates why belief in Satan, God, sin, and the "power" of prayer are dangerous things. Two little children who could have been saved died for no reason, because their parents believed in the lies that evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity spreads.
Why haven't any moderate or liberal Christians spoken out about this?
Are you afraid to admit that praying is NOT an effective way of healing a sick child?
Are you afraid to admit that medicine and science are efficacious, whereas prayer is ineffective?
I am really angry at the Christian community, and at local Philadelphia law enforcement, for its failure to prevent this terrible tragedy.
Interestingly is that on their website, nothing is stated about this...makes me wonder if it's an isolated case directly to the family...

My assumption is that few knew what was going on...
Just sayin

Beijing, China

#1868 Apr 24, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, we pray for the sick all of the time and leave it to GOD's will whether HE will heal them or not...it's not our plan, but HIS...
Is that what Jesus said?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1869 Apr 24, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, we pray for the sick all of the time and leave it to GOD's will whether HE will heal them or not...it's not our plan, but HIS...
So, if someone prays for a headache to go away and takes an aspirin, did God take away the headache?

Your assertion does, of course, leave open the long-standing question, "why won't God heal amputees?"

Isn't it fortunate that God only heals people of things that are capable of being cured or going into remission? God never heals someone of a missing limb or anencephaly or harlequin icthyosis or Down syndrome. Nope, none of them get cured.

If absolutely any outcome is consistent with your hypothesis, then your hypothesis is useless.
yes

Tucson, AZ

#1870 Apr 24, 2013
Science proves the wisdom of our lord. Every other idle has been washed away but our Lord and Savior will stand the test of time. For if God showed us that He existed than what would be the thrive to seek His majesty. Only those of seeking him and believing in him are worthy of his kingdom.

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1871 Apr 24, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, if someone prays for a headache to go away and takes an aspirin, did God take away the headache?
Your assertion does, of course, leave open the long-standing question, "why won't God heal amputees?"
Isn't it fortunate that God only heals people of things that are capable of being cured or going into remission? God never heals someone of a missing limb or anencephaly or harlequin icthyosis or Down syndrome. Nope, none of them get cured.
If absolutely any outcome is consistent with your hypothesis, then your hypothesis is useless.
One can argue this until the cows come home. I have seen some amazing things happen due to the power of prayer. You can deny it or try to 'mathematically' convince yourself that it happened because of odds or whatever...that's what unbelievers/skeptics do...

It's been stated on TOPIX over and over by many different individuals actually seeing prayer healing someone...

Coincidence? We don't think so...GOD is at work...

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1873 Apr 25, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
One can argue this until the cows come home. I have seen some amazing things happen due to the power of prayer.
Great. Just prove that it was prayer that caused whatever it was to happen. That's all I need.
NDanger wrote:
You can deny it or try to 'mathematically' convince yourself that it happened because of odds or whatever...that's what unbelievers/skeptics do...
Actually, all skeptics do is wait for evidence before accepting a claim as true. Is that foolish? Should people just believe things no matter what?
NDanger wrote:
It's been stated on TOPIX over and over by many different individuals actually seeing prayer healing someone...
Coincidence? We don't think so...GOD is at work...
By your logic, all the people who claim to have been abducted by aliens MUST have been abducted by aliens. Unfortunately, it takes more than lots of people saying X for X to be true. It takes EVIDENCE. Provide that, and you win. Gullibility is not a virtue.

“It's not a Joke~”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#1874 Apr 25, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
One can argue this until the cows come home. I have seen some amazing things happen due to the power of prayer. You can deny it or try to 'mathematically' convince yourself that it happened because of odds or whatever...that's what unbelievers/skeptics do...
It's been stated on TOPIX over and over by many different individuals actually seeing prayer healing someone...
Coincidence? We don't think so...GOD is at work...
So have I NDanger.......
Thinking

Wincanton, UK

#1875 Apr 25, 2013
Coincidences are bound to happen. Do you really expect to live in a world where you can't get the same roll on a die back to back?

If there were no coincidences at all, then I'd be very interested in finding out why.
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
One can argue this until the cows come home. I have seen some amazing things happen due to the power of prayer. You can deny it or try to 'mathematically' convince yourself that it happened because of odds or whatever...that's what unbelievers/skeptics do...
It's been stated on TOPIX over and over by many different individuals actually seeing prayer healing someone...
Coincidence? We don't think so...GOD is at work...

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#1876 Apr 25, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>So have I NDanger.......
Anecdotal evidence is worthless. Empirical evidence is what matters. Get some of that, and you win. Good luck.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#1877 Apr 25, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, we pray for the sick all of the time and leave it to GOD's will whether HE will heal them or not...it's not our plan, but HIS...
Basically you've just admitted that prayer is meaningless. Here's why:

1) If God is smarter than humans, then God's will cannot be affected by human pleading. I mean seriously, can you picture God thinking, "Well, I WAS going to do X, but since all those humans have asked me to do Y instead I'll defer to their judgment."

2) If God knows the future then he already knows everything that is going to happen. That means that nothing can change - everything is predetermined. And of course that means we don;t have free will. But as far as prayer goes, if God knows the future then praying will not - can not - change the future. And if God does NOT know the future then God is not omniscient, therefore he isn't God.

3. Many people pray out loud. Why? So God can hear you? That's silly, considering that God allegedly knows what's in your heart.

People pray for several reasons, and all but one of them are illogical. The only logical aspect of prayer is that it makes the person praying feel better.

When you really look at it, prayer is quite selfish. Since praying will not alter God's plan or bend his will (because then he would no longer be God), and since praying will either work or not work (it's a coin toss), then prayer is a very selfish endeavor. Since the only demonstrable benefit of prayer is an increase in the person who prays, then it is a very selfish act.

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