"I’m saying GOD doesn’t exist!"

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#684 Apr 7, 2013
An eBay auction for an original letter handwritten by Albert Einstein in which he expresses his views on the existence of God opened tonight (Oct. 8), and in about 10 minutes an anonymous bidder named o***h had placed the first offer at the opening price of $3 million.

In the letter, Einstein calls belief in religion and God "pretty childish" and ridicules the idea that the Jews are a chosen people.

However, in the letter to Gutkind, Einstein wrote the word God was "nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

Roland_Deschain

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

UK

#685 Apr 7, 2013
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, let' say acorn DNA is not representation "as referred to by philosophy...." Is it nevertheless a form of oak tree but not the oak tree itself by whatever term we designate this characteristic?
I've done some research. Acorns contain an oak seed, which is an embryonic plant. In other words, it's a baby oak.
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think manufactured products that go via blue-prints eg like that of a Rolex watch start off as representations of the products & that this representation takes place in minds?
A Rolex is MADE in a factory. It is not a product of nature. Procreation is different. Babies don't require a concept in a creature's brain in order to be created. It's a natural (and automatic) process. The "structure" of the resulting offspring is determined by the parents genetics.
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
How living things began is unknown, I have studied this extensively.However, we can observe characteristics of living things today and make rational inferences of how they might have arisen, no holds barred. I take it you agree that this is a rational thing to do.
While I agree we don't know for sure how life began I think the best way to find out is through science. As for how life developed, AFAIAC it evolved.
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
On sources of information, I have long since abandoned classifying them into Christian, Jewish, atheist, Republican or New Labour. My prime consideration is the merit or de-merit of what they say on logical & evidential grounds, their allegiance is less important & irrelevant to truth or falsely. Otherwise I'll just be committing a genetic fallacy.
This does not change anything. I don't accept any religious apologetics as evidence.

Since: Dec 09

Chicago, IL

#686 Apr 7, 2013
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
You missed a simple point. God made beings with free-will which necessarily has the capability to choose (otherwise it's not free) to bring about imperfections. A related concept is constrained optimisation.
Am I saying God is constrained!!! He cannot lie, steal, cheat, covet etc, ect. QED
LGK: "You missed a simple point."

Oh no, I got your point. But you obviously didn't get mine.

LGK: "God made beings with free-will which necessarily has the capability to choose (otherwise it's not free) to bring about imperfections."

So here's my point again: You are NOT stating facts.
You're stating AS fact, a subjective spin comprised of opinion, belief, presumptuous supposition, and ill-reasoned deduction.
Yeah, we have free will, individual autonomous volition.
But really, "free-will has the capability to choose to bring about imperfections"?????
What the duh!

LGK: "A related concept is constrained optimisation."

Constrained optimization, as in finding solutions minimizing or maximizing a cost function?
And you're saying free will and constrained optimization are related concepts? I don't see their relevance to one another.

LGK: "Am I saying God is constrained!!! He cannot lie, steal, cheat, covet etc, ect. QED"

I don't know WHAT you're saying. But if God's Wrath is as the fundies describe it, they'd better pray He's SELF-constraining.
Kidding aside,....
It's not that God CANNOT lie, steal, cheat, and covet etc.,... it's that He DOES NOT.
Like it's not that we CANNOT poop in our pants, it's that we DO NOT.

LGK

Erith, UK

#687 Apr 7, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not surprised that you are unable to grasp the meaning of Nietzsche’s quote. You consider your beliefs to be absolute unquestionable truth. Think about this…
“It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows.”– Epictetus (55 –135CE) Greek sage and philosopher
<quoted text>
Determining the accuracy of Bible prophesy is not nearly as cut and dried for a rational thinker as it is for a believer like yourself. The prophecies in holy books are notoriously vague. Jews and Christians both accept the Old Testament as the word of “God” yet where Christians see prophecies of Jesus Jews don’t. It’s all very subjective.
<quoted text>
Watch out for Friday the thirteenth you know how bad things always happen.
Again...
"The root of all superstition is that men observe when a thing hits, but not when it misses." - Francis Bacon
Nietzsche claimed,“Belief in the truth commences with the doubting of all those 'truths' we once believed.” Doubting *ALL* truths includes doubting doubt which is self-defeating. No-one needs special understanding to figure this out, it’s obvious. Nietzsche should have known better. Epictetus’ quote does not rescue this.

Determining accuracy of Bible prophesy is cut & dried in-&-of itself. Who does the determining is irrelevant; it’s the process that matters, not the personnel. Finger pointing gets in the way of truth. Accuracy or lack thereof of the Bible is also independent of how Christian or Jews want to see it. This is another diversion from truth. Prophecy is accurate or inaccurate on its own merits. Who cares what Christians, Jews or atheists thinks about it?

Now Isaiah (44:28) said Cyrus,'He is my shepherd......he will say,'Restore the Temple.' This either refers to someone called Cyrus or it does. 200 years later a man named Cyrus signed the decree to restore the Temple, this event either happened or it did not. Who cares what Christians, Jews or Atheists make of this Isaiah – Cyrus link? It is what it is – one event came 1st, the other 2nd as stated by the 1st.

It’s safe to conclude that you will not make a specific response to Wreck of The Titan which accurately foretold the Titanic. Whatever your reasons, the Titanic was prophesied showing clearly that prophecy DOES happen. As it turns out, the Bible predicted far many more events, 100s & sometimes 1000s of years than did Morgan Robertson. Those who reject this do so not on the basis of the evidence but something else not least unyielding worship of science.

Francis Bacon's quote is an irrelevant grope in the dark that bears no relationship whatsoever to the facts of the Bible or Wreck of the Titan. If Bacon found out how it's being misused he'd turn in his grave.
LGK

Erith, UK

#688 Apr 7, 2013
janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
LGK: "You missed a simple point."
Oh no, I got your point. But you obviously didn't get mine.
LGK: "God made beings with free-will which necessarily has the capability to choose (otherwise it's not free) to bring about imperfections."
So here's my point again: You are NOT stating facts.
You're stating AS fact, a subjective spin comprised of opinion, belief, presumptuous supposition, and ill-reasoned deduction.
Yeah, we have free will, individual autonomous volition.
But really, "free-will has the capability to choose to bring about imperfections"?????
What the duh!
LGK: "A related concept is constrained optimisation."
Constrained optimization, as in finding solutions minimizing or maximizing a cost function?
And you're saying free will and constrained optimization are related concepts? I don't see their relevance to one another.
LGK: "Am I saying God is constrained!!! He cannot lie, steal, cheat, covet etc, ect. QED"
I don't know WHAT you're saying. But if God's Wrath is as the fundies describe it, they'd better pray He's SELF-constraining.
Kidding aside,....
It's not that God CANNOT lie, steal, cheat, and covet etc.,... it's that He DOES NOT.
Like it's not that we CANNOT poop in our pants, it's that we DO NOT.
If God's wrath is what fundies like me think it is then it's a very wise move to try & be on the right side of Him. It's not like one take Him on, is it?

Creation of free-will imposes a constraint on God on what people choose to do. It is optimization because that's the logical path to creating a future world in which only those who want to be with God are with God. It also allows those who don't want to be with Him to be elsewhere and of their free-will. That sounds pretty stright forward to me. That's why we have imperfection in this world.

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#689 Apr 7, 2013
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
If God's wrath is what fundies like me think it is then it's a very wise move to try & be on the right side of Him. It's not like one take Him on, is it?
Creation of free-will imposes a constraint on God on what people choose to do. It is optimization because that's the logical path to creating a future world in which only those who want to be with God are with God. It also allows those who don't want to be with Him to be elsewhere and of their free-will. That sounds pretty stright forward to me. That's why we have imperfection in this world.
Fourteen times in Scripture a statement is made that God hardens someone's heart. The reason I don't believe in god appears to be beyond my will.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#690 Apr 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Christ proved the God of the Bible exist by rising from the dead.
Wow, you really struggle with basic English, don't you?

You have yet to compose one post that doesn't contain a spelling error, a typo, or a grammatical mistake. Not one.

But to your point: there are numerous stories of god-man saviors who rose from the dead and ascended bodily to heaven that were written BEFORE the time of Jesus.

Here's just one example: Hercules.

Hercules was the son of Zeus and a mortal human virgin woman. He performed heroic and miraculous feats during his lifetime and when he died he rose from the dead and flew up to heaven to sit by the right hand of his father - Zeus, the god of all gods.

So, just because there exists a written account of Hercules rising from the dead and ascending to Heaven, does that prove that Zeus or Hercules exists?

No, it does not. Hercules was mythical.

And so was Jesus.

Your ignorance of ancient mythology precludes you from having any valid opinions as to the veracity of claims in the Bible.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#691 Apr 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Christ proved the God of the Bible exist by rising from the dead.
Again, what scholar who has studied the gospels has concluded that "the virgin birth/godly father, the star announcing the birth, the birth during the winter solstice, the gifts of the magi, the edict to slaughter all the male children, the healings and the miracles, the betrayal, the execution on a cross, the resurrection (coincidental with the spring equinox), and the bodily ascension into the heavens" were all taken from pagan myths?
Now you also owe us all an explanation how some of the smartest people in history have believed in Christ? How could that be?
Many smart people are religious, but most REALLY smart people are atheists.

In fact, most members of the Academy of Sciences are atheists or agnostics.

In this day and age you can't call anyone who is a fundamentalist or evangelical Christian "smart" no matter how high their IQ or what (b.s.) degrees they've received from online Christian universities.

As to your other point, there are many scholars who have studied the gospels and concluded that Jesus is mythical. Biblical scholars L. Michael White and Gerald O'Collins have each concluded that as far as we know, Jesus did not leave behind any written documents, and there is no archeological evidence of his existence. Nor are there any contemporaneous accounts of his life or death.

J. M. Robertson suggested that Jesus was based on the Israelite astral cult of Joshua whose representation was the lamb and the ram. William Benjamin Smith has argued that Jesus (as Agnus Dei, the Lamb of God) was based on the Hindu god Agni.

Modern myth theorist Acharya S provides an extended list of mythological candidates whose life may be seen to parallel Jesus, including the Egyptian Horus, the Druid Hesus, Dažbog of the Slavs, Krishna of India, W&#333;den of Scandinavia, Indra of Hinduism, Fo-Hi of China, and Quetzalcoatl of Mexico among others.

In his book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" Joseph Campbell proved that a single myth stood behind the stories of Krishna, Buddha, Apollonius of Tyana, Jesus and other hero stories. In his later book "The Masks of God" Campbell proved that the legend of the Crucified and Risen Christ was similar to the old motifs of the Tammuz, Adonis, and Osiris cycles.

Paula Fredriksen states that no serious scholarly work places Jesus outside the backdrop of 1st century Palestinian Judaism. For the record, Paula Fredriksen is an American historian and a highly regarded scholar of religious studies. She held the position of William Goodwin Aurelio Professor of the Appreciation of Scripture at Boston University through 2010 and is now the William Goodwin Aurelio Chair Emerita of the Appreciation of Scripture. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and for U.S. News and World Report 's "The Life and Times of Jesus" and was featured speaker in the Frontline documentary "From Jesus to Christ: The First Christians."

Do you want more examples of scholars who have studied the matter and concluded that the biblical Jesus is a myth? There are hundreds. Let me know.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#692 Apr 7, 2013
For some reason Topix would not print the name of "Woden" in my precious comment because I used an unfamiliar character, so I'll amend that here:

"Modern myth theorist Acharya S provides an extended list of mythological candidates whose life may be seen to parallel Jesus, including the Egyptian Horus, the Druid Hesus, Dazbog of the Slavs, Krishna of India, Woden of Scandinavia, Indra of Hinduism, Fo-Hi of China, and Quetzalcoatl of Mexico among others."

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#693 Apr 7, 2013
"If God's wrath is what fundies like me think it is then it's a very wise move to try & be on the right side of Him."

lgktard, that was called Pascal's wager... proved wrong decades ago.... there are 3000+ gods, if you guessed the wrong god, then the other gods are going to be really pi$$ed off... bottom line, you know jack $hit about any gods and you are just mentally masturbating....
Big Al

Grand Rapids, MN

#694 Apr 7, 2013
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Nietzsche claimed,“Belief in the truth commences with the doubting of all those 'truths' we once believed.” Doubting *ALL* truths includes doubting doubt which is self-defeating.
“Doubting *ALL* truths includes doubting doubt…”
By what sort of twisted logic do you arrive at that that absurd statement?
LGK wrote:
No-one needs special understanding to figure this out, it’s obvious. Nietzsche should have known better. Epictetus’ quote does not rescue this.
If you think your beliefs are absolute unquestionable truth you have nothing more to learn.
LGK wrote:
Determining accuracy of Bible prophesy is cut & dried in-&-of itself. Who does the determining is irrelevant; it’s the process that matters, not the personnel. Finger pointing gets in the way of truth. Accuracy or lack thereof of the Bible is also independent of how Christian or Jews want to see it. This is another diversion from truth. Prophecy is accurate or inaccurate on its own merits. Who cares what Christians, Jews or atheists thinks about it?
If the accuracy of Bible prophesy was as cut and dried as you seem to think it is there would be no Jews.
LGK wrote:
Now Isaiah (44:28) said Cyrus,'He is my shepherd......he will say,'Restore the Temple.' This either refers to someone called Cyrus or it does. 200 years later a man named Cyrus signed the decree to restore the Temple, this event either happened or it did not. Who cares what Christians, Jews or Atheists make of this Isaiah – Cyrus link? It is what it is – one event came 1st, the other 2nd as stated by the 1st.
And the Jews point to Isaiah 41:8 “Israel is my Servant… whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham…” and I think you’re both just interpreting the verses to fit your beliefs so go argue the point with a Jew.
LGK wrote:
It’s safe to conclude that you will not make a specific response to Wreck of The Titan which accurately foretold the Titanic. Whatever your reasons, the Titanic was prophesied showing clearly that prophecy DOES happen. As it turns out, the Bible predicted far many more events, 100s & sometimes 1000s of years than did Morgan Robertson. Those who reject this do so not on the basis of the evidence but something else not least unyielding worship of science.
I did make a specific response. I gave you the definition of coincidence, but you are apparently too superstitious to consider anything as simple as that.
LGK wrote:
Francis Bacon's quote is an irrelevant grope in the dark that bears no relationship whatsoever to the facts of the Bible or Wreck of the Titan. If Bacon found out how it's being misused he'd turn in his grave.
Francis Bacon’s quote fits you like a custom tailored suit. He had every person who ever mistook a mere coincidence as a supernatural occurrence in mind. I think I’ll repeat it because it fits so well.“The root of all superstition is that men observe when a thing hits, but not when it misses.” Whatever you do don't pay any attention to the dissimilarities it might spoil your superstition.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#695 Apr 7, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently the only thing you care about is what you happen to believe – the truth be damned.
“Belief in the truth commences with the doubting of all those 'truths' we once believed." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Good old crazy Fred.....Nietzsche the nut, what did he know?
He died of Syphilis!

How dumb you gotta be to die of Syphilis?

"What does not kill you will make you stronger."

Yeah Right, good gamble crazy Freddie.
Big Al wrote:
“Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition.”- Adam Smith
The irony is amazing.
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#696 Apr 7, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Good old crazy Fred.....Nietzsche the nut, what did he know?
He died of Syphilis!
How dumb you gotta be to die of Syphilis?
Not dumb at all. You just need to live in an era where there is no antibiotic cure and medicine had not advanced far enough.
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#697 Apr 7, 2013
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Naturalism is a superstition. It's not that anyone has proved there is no supernatural but they have arbitrarily proclaimed there isn't then faithfully believed their proclamations. We digress.
That may be true of philosopher masturbators like yourself.

In science, of course, which does not operate by the PHILOSOPHY of naturalism, but by the METHOD of methodological naturalism, the stance is "We have no evidence of the supernatural and science therefore only passes judgement on what it can experimentally measure.

Got empirical evidence of your God? PRODUCE!

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#700 Apr 7, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Good old crazy Fred.....Nietzsche the nut, what did he know?
He died of Syphilis!
How dumb you gotta be to die of Syphilis?
He died in 1900. Was not till 1905 that humans figured out it was caused by a bacteria.The first treatment that worked at all did not come around till 1910.
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
"What does not kill you will make you stronger."
Yeah Right, good gamble crazy Freddie.
<quoted text>
The irony is amazing.
Don't you believe in faith healing?
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#703 Apr 7, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Good old crazy Fred.....Nietzsche the nut, what did he know?
He died of Syphilis!
How dumb you gotta be to die of Syphilis?
"What does not kill you will make you stronger."
Yeah Right, good gamble crazy Freddie.
The Light of Christ just RADIATES out from you doesn't it?(((shakes head)))

h, and you're also a LIAR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche

Nietzsche's mental illness was originally diagnosed as tertiary syphilis, in accordance with a prevailing medical paradigm of the time. Although most commentators regard his breakdown as unrelated to his philosophy, Georges Bataille drops dark hints ("'man incarnate' must also go mad")[86] and René Girard's postmortem psychoanalysis posits a worshipful rivalry with Richard Wagner.[87] The diagnosis of syphilis was challenged, and manic-depressive illness with periodic psychosis, followed by vascular dementia was put forward by Cybulska.[88] prior Schain's.[89] Leonard Sax, after a review of the medical evidence, concluded that the slow growth of a right-sided retro-orbital meningioma, not syphilis, is the most plausible explanation of Nietzsche’s dementia.[90] Orth and Trimble postulate frontotemporal dementia,[91] while other researchers[92] proposed a syndrome called CADASIL.

In 1898 and 1899 Nietzsche suffered at least two strokes, which partially paralysed him and left him unable to speak or walk. After contracting pneumonia in mid-August 1900 he had another stroke during the night of August 24–25, and died about noon on August 25.[
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#704 Apr 7, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, you really struggle with basic English, don't you?
You have yet to compose one post that doesn't contain a spelling error, a typo, or a grammatical mistake. Not one.
But to your point: there are numerous stories of god-man saviors who rose from the dead and ascended bodily to heaven that were written BEFORE the time of Jesus.
Here's just one example: Hercules.
Hercules was the son of Zeus and a mortal human virgin woman. He performed heroic and miraculous feats during his lifetime and when he died he rose from the dead and flew up to heaven to sit by the right hand of his father - Zeus, the god of all gods.
So, just because there exists a written account of Hercules rising from the dead and ascending to Heaven, does that prove that Zeus or Hercules exists?
No, it does not. Hercules was mythical.
And so was Jesus.
Your ignorance of ancient mythology precludes you from having any valid opinions as to the veracity of claims in the Bible.
The problem is that the NT writers never use Hercules or any myths to describe Christ and His work. No reputable scholar makes this claim. So y do u?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#705 Apr 7, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
For some reason Topix would not print the name of "Woden" in my precious comment because I used an unfamiliar character, so I'll amend that here:
"Modern myth theorist Acharya S provides an extended list of mythological candidates whose life may be seen to parallel Jesus, including the Egyptian Horus, the Druid Hesus, Dazbog of the Slavs, Krishna of India, Woden of Scandinavia, Indra of Hinduism, Fo-Hi of China, and Quetzalcoatl of Mexico among others."
Acharya S is a fraud.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#706 Apr 7, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Many smart people are religious, but most REALLY smart people are atheists.
In fact, most members of the Academy of Sciences are atheists or agnostics.
In this day and age you can't call anyone who is a fundamentalist or evangelical Christian "smart" no matter how high their IQ or what (b.s.) degrees they've received from online Christian universities.
As to your other point, there are many scholars who have studied the gospels and concluded that Jesus is mythical. Biblical scholars L. Michael White and Gerald O'Collins have each concluded that as far as we know, Jesus did not leave behind any written documents, and there is no archeological evidence of his existence. Nor are there any contemporaneous accounts of his life or death.
J. M. Robertson suggested that Jesus was based on the Israelite astral cult of Joshua whose representation was the lamb and the ram. William Benjamin Smith has argued that Jesus (as Agnus Dei, the Lamb of God) was based on the Hindu god Agni.
Modern myth theorist Acharya S provides an extended list of mythological candidates whose life may be seen to parallel Jesus, including the Egyptian Horus, the Druid Hesus, Dažbog of the Slavs, Krishna of India, W&#333;den of Scandinavia, Indra of Hinduism, Fo-Hi of China, and Quetzalcoatl of Mexico among others.
In his book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" Joseph Campbell proved that a single myth stood behind the stories of Krishna, Buddha, Apollonius of Tyana, Jesus and other hero stories. In his later book "The Masks of God" Campbell proved that the legend of the Crucified and Risen Christ was similar to the old motifs of the Tammuz, Adonis, and Osiris cycles.
Paula Fredriksen states that no serious scholarly work places Jesus outside the backdrop of 1st century Palestinian Judaism. For the record, Paula Fredriksen is an American historian and a highly regarded scholar of religious studies. She held the position of William Goodwin Aurelio Professor of the Appreciation of Scripture at Boston University through 2010 and is now the William Goodwin Aurelio Chair Emerita of the Appreciation of Scripture. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and for U.S. News and World Report 's "The Life and Times of Jesus" and was featured speaker in the Frontline documentary "From Jesus to Christ: The First Christians."
Do you want more examples of scholars who have studied the matter and concluded that the biblical Jesus is a myth? There are hundreds. Let me know.
Joseph Campbell is quack. Does Paula Fredriksen also say the Jesus never existed?

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#707 Apr 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is that the NT writers never use Hercules or any myths to describe Christ and His work. No reputable scholar makes this claim. So y do u?
ROFLMAO, Now you know the fate of your religion.

Many reputable scholar DO NOT believe many of the stories as told in the Bible are true.

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