Im going to SLAP Paul when I get to heaven for his confusing letters!!!!

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Tall Guy

Atlanta, GA

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#1
Aug 27, 2013
 
Look at how many denominations have been starting over his difficult to read at times and confusing letters.

Look how many Jesus vs Paul arguments there are out there.

Look how many searches there are over if Paul was a false Apostle.

All he had to do was write most his letters in a straight to read and straight forward format and we wouldn't have half the problems we have in Christianity now over people bickering over bible interpretations.
Ant

Palo Alto, CA

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#2
Aug 28, 2013
 
They are only confusing if you try to make them mean what you want rather than just read them for what they are.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

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#3
Aug 28, 2013
 
Thats if Paul even wrote all those letters. And/or if he started off wrong, and then got it right. He's a man right? He's going to make mistakes but if he got it right in the end, whats the problem?
Ant wrote:
They are only confusing if you try to make them mean what you want rather than just read them for what they are.
False. But I can prove it. You want me to show you a verse that contradicts something Jesus said?
Ant

Palo Alto, CA

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#4
Aug 28, 2013
 
I do agree at times it may seem like they are conflicting but in general, they are talking about the same thing. Paul just says you are not saved by observance of the law, but its your faith in Jesus that saves you.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

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#5
Aug 28, 2013
 
Ant wrote:
I do agree at times it may seem like they are conflicting but in general, they are talking about the same thing. Paul just says you are not saved by observance of the law, but its your faith in Jesus that saves you.
Did Jesus say that?
Ant

Palo Alto, CA

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#6
Aug 28, 2013
 
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Jesus say that?
Paul had a revelation from Jesus and used to be a Pharisee so he knew the law.
The problem with the Pharisees was that they all thought their observance of the law could save them, but Jesus himself said many times if you believe in him you are saved, so Paul just repeated what he said by saying we are saved by faith in Jesus, bot by works.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

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#7
Aug 28, 2013
 
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul had a revelation from Jesus and used to be a Pharisee so he knew the law.
The problem with the Pharisees was that they all thought their observance of the law could save them, but Jesus himself said many times if you believe in him you are saved, so Paul just repeated what he said by saying we are saved by faith in Jesus, bot by works.
Cant revelations be misinterpreted? Are you/we certain that Paul didn't skew his revelation to suit his default settings?

Many people claim revelations, many of those people seem to fall within the lines of common Xtian doctrines...some do not...isnt it possible that this God would try and correct what what might be wrong, thru his old tool of revelation...?

Is it not now a LAW that the Bible is the be all and end all of Xtian observance and investigation? Many Xtians seem to worship the Bible equally as they do their God, if not more in some cases. Did Jesus ever say anything relating to a Bible?

And yet Jesus DID say works were very and as equally important, if not more. In fact most of his parables do deal with the actions of men, not simply their faith. Where does he example people doing the right thing by faith alone...??

Paul never truly stopped being a Pharisee in heart and mind. He set out to set-up the laws of early Xtianity.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

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#8
Aug 28, 2013
 
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul had a revelation from Jesus and used to be a Pharisee so he knew the law.
The problem with the Pharisees was that they all thought their observance of the law could save them, but Jesus himself said many times if you believe in him you are saved, so Paul just repeated what he said by saying we are saved by faith in Jesus, bot by works.
Jesus made it rather plain that public displays of Faith was a bad thing to do, very bad...yet American Xtians seem incapable of following that very clear admonition. Call it Paul's Pharisaical creep.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

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#10
Aug 28, 2013
 

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Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul had a revelation from Jesus and used to be a Pharisee so he knew the law.
The problem with the Pharisees was that they all thought their observance of the law could save them, but Jesus himself said many times if you believe in him you are saved, so Paul just repeated what he said by saying we are saved by faith in Jesus, bot by works.
Ok lets see:

Matthew 7
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

So how can one believe him and not do what he said? Not to mention him following the law given to Israel. So can you "believe him" but not do as he did? What of his words makes you believe that you dont have to do as he did?
Ant

Palo Alto, CA

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#11
Aug 28, 2013
 
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok lets see:
Matthew 7
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
So how can one believe him and not do what he said? Not to mention him following the law given to Israel. So can you "believe him" but not do as he did? What of his words makes you believe that you dont have to do as he did?
He came to fulfill the law and the law was fulfilled when he died on the cross on rose again.
Ant

Palo Alto, CA

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#12
Aug 28, 2013
 
Native reincarnate wrote:
<quoted text>Like you?
Seeing your stupid comment, you must be the typical that knows nothing about the bible and only here with no basis for your arguments.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

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#13
Aug 28, 2013
 

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Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
He came to fulfill the law and the law was fulfilled when he died on the cross on rose again.
1. Should I believe YOU or Jesus?

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

2. What did Jesus mean by "until heaven and earth DISAPPEAR not the SMALLEST LETTER, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means DISAPPEAR FROM THE LAW until EVERYTHING is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the LEAST of these commands and teaches others to do so whill be called least in heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands (i.e- the law) will be called great in the kingdom of heaven?
lol

Pineville, WV

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#14
Aug 28, 2013
 

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Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus made it rather plain that public displays of Faith was a bad thing to do, very bad...yet American Xtians seem incapable of following that very clear admonition. Call it Paul's Pharisaical creep.
In your post #7 you say this
And yet Jesus DID say works were very and as equally important, if not more. In fact most of his parables do deal with the actions of men, not simply their faith. Where does he example people doing the right thing by faith alone...??

Now you say that public displays of faith, a WORK, was frowned upon by Jesus Christ.

See why you really aren't taken seriously? You are just a braggart, nothing more.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

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#15
Aug 28, 2013
 

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lol wrote:
<quoted text>
In your post #7 you say this
And yet Jesus DID say works were very and as equally important, if not more. In fact most of his parables do deal with the actions of men, not simply their faith. Where does he example people doing the right thing by faith alone...??
Now you say that public displays of faith, a WORK, was frowned upon by Jesus Christ.
See why you really aren't taken seriously? You are just a braggart, nothing more.
Matthew 6
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
loveismygoal

Glasgow, UK

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#16
Aug 29, 2013
 
Flygerian wrote:
Thats if Paul even wrote all those letters. And/or if he started off wrong, and then got it right. He's a man right? He's going to make mistakes but if he got it right in the end, whats the problem?
<quoted text>
False. But I can prove it. You want me to show you a verse that contradicts something Jesus said?
there are many verses that Paul says that contradicts Christ and many that go against Christs teachings ..starting with go cast out demons open the eyes of the blind ect and Pauls first miracle was to blind a man ??? I do believe Paul wrote these letters..I also believe it is possible Paul who had intercepted letters from the apostles could have changed tactics and decided it would be easier to put a spanner in the works instead of going out and murdering followers of Christ he could add a word or two here remove a word there change a word there from the apostles letters and put them out as his own and throw the whole thing off course ..then again Paul could have been genuine and others changed his words at a later date ..whatever it transpires to be about Paul I follow Christ and Christ only so Paul can shout hey come follow me all he likes ..I aint going there

“Jesus loves you all!”

Since: Jul 13

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#17
Aug 29, 2013
 
Tall Guy wrote:
Look at how many denominations have been starting over his difficult to read at times and confusing letters.

Look how many Jesus vs Paul arguments there are out there.

Look how many searches there are over if Paul was a false Apostle.

All he had to do was write most his letters in a straight to read and straight forward format and we wouldn't have half the problems we have in Christianity now over people bickering over bible interpretations.
Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal spiritual truth to you.
jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

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#18
Aug 29, 2013
 
Tall Guy wrote:
Look at how many denominations have been starting over his difficult to read at times and confusing letters.
Look how many Jesus vs Paul arguments there are out there.
Look how many searches there are over if Paul was a false Apostle.
All he had to do was write most his letters in a straight to read and straight forward format and we wouldn't have half the problems we have in Christianity now over people bickering over bible interpretations.
HIS LETTERS WERE ADRESSED TO INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE AND CHURCHES!
He wouldn't have expected them to be read by everyone.
jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

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#19
Aug 29, 2013
 
loveismygoal wrote:
<quoted text>there are many verses that Paul says that contradicts Christ and many that go against Christs teachings ..starting with go cast out demons open the eyes of the blind ect and Pauls first miracle was to blind a man ??? I do believe Paul wrote these letters..I also believe it is possible Paul who had intercepted letters from the apostles could have changed tactics and decided it would be easier to put a spanner in the works instead of going out and murdering followers of Christ he could add a word or two here remove a word there change a word there from the apostles letters and put them out as his own and throw the whole thing off course .
PAUL'S LETTERS WERE ALL WRITTEN BEFORE ANY GOSPELS WERE WRITTEN BY DISCIPLES!!!!!! Paul never claimed to have met Jesus while he was teaching, because he hadn't.
jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

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#20
Aug 29, 2013
 
PAUL'S EPISTLES WERE ALL WRITTEN BEFORE AD50.

Paul died around AD64.
The first Gospel (Mark) was written around AD70.
loveismygoal

Glasgow, UK

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#21
Aug 29, 2013
 
jesus is wrote:
<quoted text>
PAUL'S LETTERS WERE ALL WRITTEN BEFORE ANY GOSPELS WERE WRITTEN BY DISCIPLES!!!!!! Paul never claimed to have met Jesus while he was teaching, because he hadn't.
No he hadn't met Jesus ..did he meet him after his Resurrection though ?

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