Fear of Change

“Live &”

Since: Feb 10

Learn

#83 Jan 28, 2014
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you assume that I don't believe in 'god'?
You see this is the problem that I have with religion... any religion that assumes it is the one and only truth... is that if I don't believe in YOUR version of god then I don't believe in god....
I don't see 'god' as you do... I don't confine the cause of the universe, that is to say existence itself to the pages of a book.
When it comes to the concept of god all we have are own ideas... this is why it is called faith.
And surely these 'ideas' should surely encompass the very best, the very highest and most lofty ideals that man can even conceive...
But sadly religion's gods do no such thing. Instead many of them (including the Christian religion or faith) promote a god that is responsible for genocide, murder, racism, animal and human blood sacrifice and on and on it goes.....
Is it any wonder we are then told that we must fear this version of god?
By your postings towards those who do believe in God demonstrates that you don't believe in God.
See,this is a new method of persecution from you unbelievers that I have been observing on here for quite some time now.
Use to be that Atheists and other unbelievers would come on here bashing and ridiculing Christians because of their beliefs but now that has changed for the past couple of years on here.
Now,some of you are trying a different approach which is mocking Christians and pretending that you believe only a particular part and you proceed with it by making up a whole lot of ridiculous stuff for the sole purpose to make a mockery out of Christian beliefs,that is your whole purpose of being on this Christian forum in the first place.
Don't you think for one second that I don't see what's going on here because I know ridicule,bashing,sarcasm and mockery when I see it.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#84 Jan 28, 2014
JJJ wrote:
Is it any wonder we are then told that we must fear this version of god?
You will learn to fear God, either in this life or when it's too late. But you will learn.

Hebrews 10:31 (NKJV)
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#85 Jan 28, 2014
Gary Coaldigger wrote:
<quoted text>
By your postings towards those who do believe in God demonstrates that you don't believe in God.
See,this is a new method of persecution from you unbelievers that I have been observing on here for quite some time now.
Use to be that Atheists and other unbelievers would come on here bashing and ridiculing Christians because of their beliefs but now that has changed for the past couple of years on here.
Now,some of you are trying a different approach which is mocking Christians and pretending that you believe only a particular part and you proceed with it by making up a whole lot of ridiculous stuff for the sole purpose to make a mockery out of Christian beliefs,that is your whole purpose of being on this Christian forum in the first place.
Don't you think for one second that I don't see what's going on here because I know ridicule,bashing,sarcasm and mockery when I see it.
You have me all wrong. While I make no apologies for the content of my comments, point out to me please where in my posts you find 'ridicule,bashing,sarcasm and mockery'

I do no such thing and nor am I an atheist.

I'm here because I'm presuming that those with a religious faith are people of a spiritual nature and I too am a spiritual man.

But just as you claim to know 'ridicule,bashing,sarcasm and mockery' I would also state that I have a reasonable ability to judge right from wrong and it is my inborn, god inherited if your prefer, ability to judge for myself right and wrong that prompt me to say what I have about the biblical god.

If you could for one second open your closed mind and judge some of the bible accounts for what they are without the 'god can do what he wants' attitude and you too would judge such things as wrong.

Again some examples....
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#86 Jan 28, 2014
Could you ever as a loving father even conceive asking your son to sacrifice his son for not other reasons than to test his love and faith and set a precedent?

Never mind that you have no intentions of seeing it through, as one man (and I am a father) to another... could you even conceive asking such a thing?

Of course not and why is that if you are made in god's image?

Is not hypocritical to expect of others what we are not willing to give ourselves? Why is that god asks us to give our brother seventy times seventy, indefinitely and yet he will not do that with us.... in fact he is going to punish some for all eternity...

While our children, especially when they are young and inexpereinced disobey and disappoint us time and time again, and yes we at times disipline them would we ever take thier life for making a bad judgment?

And yet this is what god did to Adam & Eve. Yes they ate from the tree and yes they disobeyed god but surely their wrong couldn't be classified as a premeditated act of evil designed to injure god...

No it was at best a poor choice, allowing curiosity to get the better of them and for this they are not only put to death (and don't forget they were so inexperienced that at the time they did not even realise that they were naked)

And then the rest of the human race is also sentenced to death for their poor choice, unless of course they partake in human sacrifice, albeit symbolically by putting faith in the ransom sacrifice, the human sacrifice of the man Jesus Christ...

And even the Jews had laws where they would stone to death a disobedient child, apparently god allowed a she bear to rip 42 kids to pieces for nothing more than being young and stupid and calling Elisha baldy....

And of course there is much more...

What of the genocide...... some scholars have called the genocide carried out by the Jews...'the holocaust in reverse'...

You say you have faith in god then think on this....
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#87 Jan 28, 2014
I can presume that as a faithful Christian you are the modern equivalent of a faithful Jew before the new covenant that Christ made with his disciples...

So tell me.... if you were in involved in god's war back then... would you have been able to kill defenceless women and children as ordered by god (or at least the prophets of god)?

When I have this discussion with Christians that defend the bible I am told that the people that the Jews wiped out were evil personified, that they sacrificed their own children and so on and so they deserved to die..

Well hey I have no problem with that but of course god would know what we know today about post traumatic stress that the military suffer after war experiences....

And yet knowing this he still he expected family men after engaging in battle with other soldiers to then burst into a home and on finding say a mother trying to protect her children, even babies, proceed to run a spear through them all......

How is that loving? If they deserved to die then would it not have been more loving for god to the deed?

After all did he not send an angel to slaughter 185,000 soldiers...

'That night the angel of the LORD went out to the Assyrian camp and killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers. When the surviving Assyrians woke up the next morning, they found corpses everywhere.'

He did this in their sleep so it must have been painless because the scripture says others slept through it..... and yet for women and children no such mercy and for his faithful Jews no such consideration for the nightmares they must have endured....
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#88 Jan 28, 2014
And yet you won't consider the above scenario in the light of reality as opposed to the pages of the bible for to do so leaves no options but to ask the questions I have.

I have stated that I believe that most Christian's faith, is based more on indoctrination and it is not based on reality because this allows them to gloss the above and not really think it through....

But my faith is very real and that is why when I read the bible I make it real because if it is the one and only truth then it deserves to be considered within the boundaries of our collective moral code ...

And if you have one ounce of honesty answer the following......

If instead of being indoctrinated with religious instruction from in many case infancy, if instead you read the above accounts or learnt of them for the very first time in conjunction with a god that you had never heard of or at least one that you believed to a false god.....

WOULD YOU HAVE ANY HESITATION IN DENOUNCING THE ABOVE AS CRUEL, WICKED, BARBARIC AND ANYTHING BUT THE ACTIONS OF A LOVING GOD?

And of course the honest answer is no. We'd have no hesitation in denouncing such a god as an evil god.

But sadly most of us don't realise that we have never processed the information as being real.

We say we do.... but if we did and we still saw nothing wrong with any of it then that would mean that our moral code was defective but this is not the case...

Something else is at play here because we would have no problem labelling someone of another faith for believing and seeing no wrong in genocide, murder and the like...

And we cannot deny this for we try and punish our fellow man for committing such atrocities....

But because we have been indoctrinated, brainwashed into believing that our god is the true god we accept what is bad as being good..

If Christ was born today he would denounce the content of the bible or at least adjust our thinking about it all over again.

My intentions have never been to ridicule or mock anyone but even if I am not perceived as such my motivation for writing here is to elevate our thinking from what was written in a book thousands of years ago....even before what we call the dark ages.

Why would our spiritual progression just halt and stagnate with a book written thousands of years ago?
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#89 Jan 28, 2014
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>You will learn to fear God, either in this life or when it's too late. But you will learn.
Hebrews 10:31 (NKJV)
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
If the bible was truth then it is beyond me how anyone can presume that they are saved.....

For not matter what you do you salvation is still conditional on the whims of the biblical god....

Seek the LORD, all who are humble, and follow his commands. Seek to do what is right and to live humbly. Perhaps even yet the LORD will protect you--protect you from his anger on that day of destruction... new living translation...

So for starters $$bill.... pronouncing judgement on others.... even if you are merely repeating it is far from living humble in fact I would call it being presumptuous....

But at any rate that's not your only problem. According to that scripture you can be doing it all right and still your guarantee of salvation is still only a 'perhaps'..

No wonder you fear your god......

Unlike the guarantee of salvation contained in that scripture unconditional love is just that... love without conditions and for those of us that really remember 'god'....

We have noting to fear.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#90 Jan 28, 2014
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
If the bible was truth then it is beyond me how anyone can presume that they are saved.....
When someone dies he/she is either saved or not. There is no other opportunity for salvation promised by God of the Bible.

Hebrews 9:27 (NKJV)
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#91 Jan 28, 2014
JJJ wrote:
We have noting to fear.
We?

“Live &”

Since: Feb 10

Learn

#92 Jan 28, 2014
JJJ,I don't have you wrong at all but do keep posting like you do and you'll continue to prove me right every time.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#93 Jan 28, 2014
Gary Coaldigger wrote:
JJJ,I don't have you wrong at all but do keep posting like you do and you'll continue to prove me right every time.
It is not without reason that are yet to address a single issue I have raised and instead become all defensive and then respond on a personal level crying 'persecution'...

Please..... the martyrs would be turning in their graves if they thought you were comparing my reasonable comments to their persecution that they endured....

You have responded as you have because you cannot respond and this due to the cognitive dissonance you begin to suffer when you process the information...

The physical discomfort caused by cognitive dissonance occurs because your brain cannot reconcile the common sense in what I have stated with your long held deep beliefs...

Deep down you see the sense in what I have stated but to acknowledge this would clash with your faith and so instead you instead respond as you have.

Why won't you answer what are very reasonable questions, no mocking, no persecution, just common sense reasoning and unlike you I have a very open mind and if you can justify the bible's position on the issues I have raised....

Rest assured I won't accuse of mocking or persecuting me but instead I will process the information and respond accordingly....

If your faith is real then the scriptures say you should be prepared to defend it.... 1 peter 3:15

Crying 'persecution' in the context of my post is a little pathetic... don't you think?
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#94 Jan 28, 2014
But keep ignoring the issues I've raised... that in itself is answer enough and will surely help those that are open minded and sincere enough to care about truth.

“Live &”

Since: Feb 10

Learn

#95 Jan 29, 2014
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not without reason that are yet to address a single issue I have raised and instead become all defensive and then respond on a personal level crying 'persecution'...
Please..... the martyrs would be turning in their graves if they thought you were comparing my reasonable comments to their persecution that they endured....
You have responded as you have because you cannot respond and this due to the cognitive dissonance you begin to suffer when you process the information...
The physical discomfort caused by cognitive dissonance occurs because your brain cannot reconcile the common sense in what I have stated with your long held deep beliefs...
Deep down you see the sense in what I have stated but to acknowledge this would clash with your faith and so instead you instead respond as you have.
Why won't you answer what are very reasonable questions, no mocking, no persecution, just common sense reasoning and unlike you I have a very open mind and if you can justify the bible's position on the issues I have raised....
Rest assured I won't accuse of mocking or persecuting me but instead I will process the information and respond accordingly....
If your faith is real then the scriptures say you should be prepared to defend it.... 1 peter 3:15
Crying 'persecution' in the context of my post is a little pathetic... don't you think?
Keep talking,you're only proving me right.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#96 Jan 30, 2014
Gary Coaldigger wrote:
<quoted text> Keep talking,you're only proving me right.
And still to address a single issue.... why is that?

Can you tell why it is okay for god to ask his friend Abraham to slit his son Isaac's throat and offer him up as a burnt sacrifice, not to save the world but simply to prove his faith, even though the bible states that god knows us( and presumably Abraham) before we are even embryos....

Why is there no wrong in this when we as mere humans made in god's image find even the notion (let alone the deed) of a such a barbaric act evil and repulsive?

And what loving father (god) on discovering that a guest staying at his home (Satan) had enticed two of his children (Adam & Eve) into committing an act that cost them their lives and worse, knew that this guest was going to make his life's work to entice as many as the father's children as possible down the same road to their death....

Would then not only allow the wicked guest to continue to stay in his home and have access to his children, but also empower him with authority second only to his own and then sit back and watch the ensuing struggle....

But of course you don't have answers because there are none that can justify such evil and deep down you know this because if in fact you actually believed these accounts to be literal..... and you see no wrong in them...

Then suffice to say your moral code is defective because a good person of sound mind would never even conceive of asking a friend to sacrifice any human being let alone their own son...for any reason..... to do so would be murder and enticing another to commit murder

And in the case of Adam & Eve.... a loving father, that is a loving sane father would remove Satan there and then but no this god punishes Adam & Eve, babes compared to Satan, with death and he then rewards Satan with authority over the world so he (god) can watch mankind struggle against the machinations of the devil.....

How sick and sadistic, if such a human father and these scenarios existed he would be deemed unfit to be a parent.....

The only thing I'm proving by continuing to ask these questions..... is that you cannot answer them, for there are no answers that can condone these actions other than...

"god is god and can do whatever he wants'

Which is the answer that all deluded sick despots have given to justify their madness

I have no delusions that a Christian such as yourself will ever see the real issues involved here but I thank you for that platform that your invitation above provides to present these issues because there are many honest people who while loving god can't accept that he would be responsible for the atrocities recorded in the OT.......

“Live &”

Since: Feb 10

Learn

#97 Jan 30, 2014
JJJ,since you have made it quite crystal clear that you do not believe as I do and therefor you have sought every opportunity to bash and ridicule my beliefs then I am proven my sincerity in my beliefs to you by demonstrating my obedience to God's word that I will gladly quote to you but I kind of doubt you'd understand it much.

Matthew Chapter 6 verse 7 says,and I quote,"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs,neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you."
There is your answer to all your questions.

You,see,I know that no matter what answer I or any other on here gives you,you are going to bash and ridicule our beliefs like some punk kid who thinks that they know it all but actually those like you really don't have much of a clue to what you are on here making a fool out of yourselves of trying to be witty by bashing and ridiculing Christians and their beliefs.

“Live &”

Since: Feb 10

Learn

#98 Jan 30, 2014
Sorry,I got that backwards,its Matthew 7:6
Aussie Bob

Adelaide, Australia

#99 Feb 1, 2014
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>Globalization is the result of our scientific progress followed by overpopulation and abuse of resources.
Humans will always, given the opportunity, take it to the limit never to stop unless they have to.
Emotions and “social intelligence” is what controls our actions 80-90%, what is left comes from plain reason.
No wonder that this world will stumble and fall over and over again.
You are willfully ignoring the power elites although I agree with much of what you have said.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#100 Feb 1, 2014
Aussie Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
You are willfully ignoring the power elites although I agree with much of what you have said.
The "elite" plays their social games in an intelligent manner less under the rule of their emotions, they are more professionals in manipulating others to do what they want.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#101 Feb 4, 2014
Gary Coaldigger wrote:
You,see,I know that no matter what answer I or any other on here gives you,you are going to bash and ridicule our beliefs like some punk kid who thinks that they know it all but actually those like you really don't have much of a clue to what you are on here making a fool out of yourselves of trying to be witty by bashing and ridiculing Christians and their beliefs.
I must say you have flair for the dramatics..... you are yet to show me one instance where I have ridiculed or 'bashed' your beliefs.

I have presented bible accounts in real life settings and presented the principles involved that's all.

I have never once said "you're stupid if you believe this etc.....

In fact I personally believe that believing the accounts that I have presented as being factual is to ridicule god because these actions that we seem to be willing to accept as truth about god and even praise god we would never, ever be willing to praise in regard to me.

My faith in god is very, very real. I was raised believing in the bible I have read it many times and yet even as a child these accounts (Abraham willingness to sacrifice Isaac) that I have brought to light always concerned me.

If I was listening to a sermon and the one giving it referred the account of Abraham.... from that point on I would not hear another word of the sermon but rather go into deep meditation on the account, read preceding and after scriptures for context etc and my god given moral code just can't accept something like that as praise worthy.... not in any setting...

These accounts are not true but they are the words of men and even though I believe that all scripture is the words of men never the less much of it is true..... like the truth will set you free....

Religion, including the Christian religion is responsible for some f the worst atrocities ever committed by man against his fellow man..... religion is responsible for people living their whole lives in fear and guilt for only a presumptuous and haughty man would feel say in the biblical day of judgement....

My intention is to share my thoughts with like minded people to correct what I believe to be errors...

I understand and accept that you disagree with me but please show a little integrity and stop stating that I have mocked, ridiculed or bashed your beliefs....

I have simply given my opinions as to the principles involved in these accounts...... Paul praised the Boreans for questioning..... Christ is remembered for standing up in the temple and raising questions...

Sincere followers of men like Christ have always stood up and questioned and those that seem to love the tradition have always accused such like ones as being 'mockers and ridiculers'....

And in every single response from you, not once have you addressed any of the issues that I have raised not once and I would ask you this.....
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#102 Feb 4, 2014
Do you think that there is a possibility that you are doing this because deep down you know that there are no justifications or explanations to reconcile these accounts....

No king is above his own laws, for once this happens the king becomes a tyrant, a despot.

Neither is god above his own laws and yet there are many instances in the bible where this seems to be the case.

For example it states in the bible that parents burning their children (no age given) is something that had never even entered into the mind of god and yet.....

The New International Version of the bible at Lev 21:9 states...

"'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire ..."

How do you reconcile this with the truth that god cannot lie?

I can..... I don't accept that Lev 21:9 are the words of god but instead like all of the bible they are the words of men sure good men for the most, men that are writing because they are inspired by god but not in some magical dictation sense but rather as an artist is inspired by a sunset...

Now maybe the notion that the bible is simply the words of men would affect you faith in god but if it did then I would ask where does your faith primarily lay..... in a living connection with god or in the pages of a book?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Christian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
++++++++++ TRUE PROPHET of GOD ++++++++++ (Dec '13) 3 hr Frindly 56
DID DOLLARSBILL HAVE a STROKE and DIE? 3 hr Frindly 152
ALL of YOU are CHILDREN of THE DEVIL. 5 hr Frindly 48
>>>>>>>>>>>> ASK the PROPHET <<<<<<<<<<<< (Nov '13) 5 hr Frindly 78
Sex Demons 101 - You Need to Have Demons Cast O... 10 hr AlertChristians 1
Can You Be A Christian AND Believe In Reincarna... (May '09) 13 hr youareadufus 523
Public Bus Drivers Give Preferred Treatment to ... 17 hr youareadufus 5
More from around the web