Is God A Trinity??

Is God A Trinity??

Created by ThePreacherman01 on Nov 19, 2012

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“Jesus is Lord”

Since: Aug 11

Greenwood, Indiana

#1 Nov 19, 2012
I started this thread to see if people who are Christian or non Christian can answer the question, can you??

“Jesus is Lord”

Since: Aug 11

Greenwood, Indiana

#2 Nov 19, 2012
If you vote yes please tell us why.
If you vote No please tell us why....
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#3 Nov 19, 2012
The god of the christians is. But the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is not.

“For The Love Of GOD”

Since: Nov 11

Awaiting My Home

#4 Nov 19, 2012
Flygerian wrote:
The god of the christians is. But the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is not.
"The God" is the same God. The only difference are the beliefs and how He is worshiped. God will not change because of mortals religions and interpretations.

“For The Love Of GOD”

Since: Nov 11

Awaiting My Home

#5 Nov 19, 2012
ThePreacherman01 wrote:
If you vote yes please tell us why.
If you vote No please tell us why....
The doctrine of the Trinity can be summed up as follows: Within the one Being that is God, there exist eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In order to prove this doctrine we must prove the following:

1. There is only one God

2. The Father is God

3. Jesus is God

4. The Holy Spirit is God

5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons.

1. There is only one God:

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are known as the big three monotheistic religions. You won’t find many arguments among Muslims, Jews, and Christians that there is more than one God, except perhaps among some aberrant sects. Nevertheless, let us establish this Scripturally before we move on to areas where disagreements will arise.

2. There is a plurality to God.

The Hebrew word for God is el in its singular form. The most common form used for God is elohim, which is plural in form. How can there be plural form used for only one God? Some suggest that the answer is found in the three persons of the Trinity. Others contend that the plural construct denotes a fullness of deity as opposed to plurality. I submit that both interpretations are correct. I’m getting ahead of myself now though. Rather than look at all the verses that use the plural elohim, let’s look at other verses that point to a plurality within the one God.

“Let us make man in our image”– Genesis 1:26, emphasis added.

“God said,‘Behold, the man has become like one of us…’”– Genesis 3:22, emphasis added.

3. The Father is God.

This isn’t really an item that is in question. While God the Father is only known as the Father in the New Testament, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and pseudo-Christian cults understand that the Father in the New Testament is the Yahweh of the Old Testament, though some disagree with the characterization of “Father”. However, it is important to establish that the Father of the New Testament is the true God referred to in the Old Testament, known often as Yahweh, or “Jehovah”.

4. Jesus is God.

There is a great deal of Scriptural evidence that Jesus Christ is God. The evidence is comprised not only of specific statements, but also in prophecy fulfillment and his attributes. Let’s first look at some of explicit Scriptural evidence. In this section, we won’t limit ourselves to only giving the text of two verses.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.”– John 1:1

“Thomas said to him,‘My Lord and my God!’”– John 20:28

I want to pause just a moment to discuss the verses above. The Greek word for God is theos. In John 1:1, we read that the Word (Jesus) was with theos and was indeed theos. Jesus was (and is) God! This is a very powerful statement! The word theos is used not only in John 1:1, but also in verse 18 and in John 20:28. Theos is used in the New Testament in reference to Jehovah/Yahweh God. Theos is also used in reference to Jesus. We’re beginning to see the plurality found within the one God.

5. The Holy Spirit is God

Less Scripture is dedicated to the Holy Spirit, but there is enough to conclude that He too is God. In Acts 5:3-4, we see the Holy Spirit being equated with God:

“Then Peter said,‘Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.’”[emphasis added]

http://www.contenderministries.org/biblestudy...

“Jesus is Lord”

Since: Aug 11

Greenwood, Indiana

#6 Nov 19, 2012
Peace For Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
The doctrine of the Trinity can be summed up as follows: Within the one Being that is God, there exist eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In order to prove this doctrine we must prove the following:
1. There is only one God
2. The Father is God
3. Jesus is God
4. The Holy Spirit is God
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons.
1. There is only one God:
Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are known as the big three monotheistic religions. You won’t find many arguments among Muslims, Jews, and Christians that there is more than one God, except perhaps among some aberrant sects. Nevertheless, let us establish this Scripturally before we move on to areas where disagreements will arise.
2. There is a plurality to God.
The Hebrew word for God is el in its singular form. The most common form used for God is elohim, which is plural in form. How can there be plural form used for only one God? Some suggest that the answer is found in the three persons of the Trinity. Others contend that the plural construct denotes a fullness of deity as opposed to plurality. I submit that both interpretations are correct. I’m getting ahead of myself now though. Rather than look at all the verses that use the plural elohim, let’s look at other verses that point to a plurality within the one God.
“Let us make man in our image”– Genesis 1:26, emphasis added.
“God said,‘Behold, the man has become like one of us…’”– Genesis 3:22, emphasis added.
3. The Father is God.
This isn’t really an item that is in question. While God the Father is only known as the Father in the New Testament, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and pseudo-Christian cults understand that the Father in the New Testament is the Yahweh of the Old Testament, though some disagree with the characterization of “Father”. However, it is important to establish that the Father of the New Testament is the true God referred to in the Old Testament, known often as Yahweh, or “Jehovah”.
4. Jesus is God.
There is a great deal of Scriptural evidence that Jesus Christ is God. The evidence is comprised not only of specific statements, but also in prophecy fulfillment and his attributes. Let’s first look at some of explicit Scriptural evidence. In this section, we won’t limit ourselves to only giving the text of two verses.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.”– John 1:1
“Thomas said to him,‘My Lord and my God!’”– John 20:28
I want to pause just a moment to discuss the verses above. The Greek word for God is theos. In John 1:1, we read that the Word (Jesus) was with theos and was indeed theos. Jesus was (and is) God! This is a very powerful statement! The word theos is used not only in John 1:1, but also in verse 18 and in John 20:28. Theos is used in the New Testament in reference to Jehovah/Yahweh God. Theos is also used in reference to Jesus. We’re beginning to see the plurality found within the one God.
5. The Holy Spirit is God
Less Scripture is dedicated to the Holy Spirit, but there is enough to conclude that He too is God. In Acts 5:3-4, we see the Holy Spirit being equated with God:
“Then Peter said,‘Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.’”[emphasis added]
http://www.contenderministries.org/biblestudy...
AMEN.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#7 Nov 19, 2012
Peace For Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
"The God" is the same God. The only difference are the beliefs and how He is worshiped. God will not change because of mortals religions and interpretations.
I disagree. The Almighty Creator of All things this is true. But not everyone worships this. They have their own gods that they have been brought up to worship. So as I said the god of the christians (as one poster already described) is a trinity. Father son and holy spirit. Other ancient religions had this trinity too in one way or another

“For The Love Of GOD”

Since: Nov 11

Awaiting My Home

#8 Nov 19, 2012
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. The Almighty Creator of All things this is true. But not everyone worships this. They have their own gods that they have been brought up to worship. So as I said the god of the christians (as one poster already described) is a trinity. Father son and holy spirit. Other ancient religions had this trinity too in one way or another
Believe as you wish. However, the God of Abraham IS the Christian God. I believe the Creator is the only God. Religions just perceive God in much different ways.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#9 Nov 19, 2012
I now see that the poster I was referring to was you "Peace for Christ" I can go thru using the book that you believe in how you're wrong but I doubt you would believe but I'll give it a try anyways. I'll just answer what you posted

1. There is one God.

While there is one source of all Creation so to say, there is many gods. I mean thats why there is Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, and more. In the bible, the God of Abraham claims to be God Almighty and the God of gods.

2. There is a plurality to God

While its true that the Hebrew word "elohim" is plural, this isnt to suggest that the Hebrews believed that the Almighty was plural. Just respect given to Him since He was the Almighty above all others. When He said "Let us make man in our image" it isnt logical to assume that He was talking to Himself. Why? Because (other than at most three places in the bible) He never uses US, WE, OUR etc.. when referring to Himself. He says I, ME, MINE etc... which shows that HE IS ONE. Not three in ONE. Besides if ONE says WE then He isnt one but He is more than one.

3. The "God of the NT" is not the same as the OT. A simple comparison of what Jesus taught and what the prophets and servants taught on the behalf of the Almighty can expose this. So I sincerely doubt (unless the Almighty DOES change unlike what He said in Malachi 3:6 I think. Dont feel like looking lol) the Father Jesus spoke of is the same as the Almighty of Israel.

4. Jesus is God.

I know what this will be met with. Meaning I know that you will probably say (in regards to what Im about to post) that Jesus was humbling himself. Or providing an example for us. But in this regard do you not think the best thing to go by on Jesus divinity is his own words? Sure. So if Jesus was god why did he say these things?

John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

John 14:28
You heard me say,‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

And for you (if you say Jesus said he was one with his god) another one

John 17:3
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent

The only true God who? Not Jesus because here he was praying to his father who he said was the only true god. But wait, theres more

John 17:22
22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

So that they (people that believe in him) may be one with his father just as he is.

5. The Holy Spirit is God.

How about we go to the OT and see what that says?

Isaiah 63:10
Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them.

How can they grieve the Almighty's Holy Spirit if the Almighty IS the Holy Spirit and the Holy spirit IS the Almighty? They couldnt. Because the way this verse is constructed, it presents ownership to the Almighty. That the Holy Spirit is HIS, but is not Him. Therefore we can conclude, that there is no TRINITY proposed in the OT. The NT has elements of it, which is why I stated that it is not coherent with the OT.

“Jesus is Lord”

Since: Aug 11

Greenwood, Indiana

#10 Nov 19, 2012
Flygerian wrote:
The God of the Christians is. But the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is not.
The God of Christians is the same God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob! There is only one God for everyone that is just plain fact. And to prove what I am saying just open up your Bible and tell us how many Gods you find in there!
Punisher

Brentwood, NY

#11 Nov 19, 2012
No, the most original scriptures do not support the Trinity. No where in the Greek is there any terminology that translates as "same substance", or homoousios in the Greek.

The fight over the belief that Jesus was of the same substance as God, the Father, was a huge one in the first centuries of Xtianity. It was vicious, men were killed, mens (priests and civilians) careers were destroyed, sacred spaces were laid siege to, and Priests at all levels of the Churches fought like dogs over the idea that Jesus was THE God, the same as the Father that begot him or a man with Divine properties and gifts.(and begot was a key word in the arguments)

The Xtian God is only a Trinity due to the win of the Nicene Creed crowd over both East and Western Xtian-dom, a decision made by an Emperor, as the Churches could not settle the matter.

Soon thereafter, the Holy Spirit was elevated to same substance too. The rules of logic were severely twisted by the Triune crowd, as well as word definitions, and long established philosophical ideas to force this Trinity upon the Doctrines of Xtianity.

So no, the Xtians God is not a Trinity.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#12 Nov 19, 2012
ThePreacherman01 wrote:
<quoted text> The God of Christians is the same God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob! There is only one God for everyone that is just plain fact. And to prove what I am saying just open up your Bible and tell us how many Gods you find in there!
What you're saying is if I worship a tree I can claim its the same as the Almighty of All? No, Im not equating the god of christians to a tree though it might as well be, since IDOLATRY is IDOLATRY.

I've read the bible front to back. And what does it say?

Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

Psalm 136:2
Give thanks to the God of gods. His love endures forever.

Psalm 95:3
For the LORD is a great God, a great King above all gods

As I said there are MANY gods. But theres only ONE ALMIGHTY. Meaning one BEING who is above ALL ELSE. That would be the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The God of Israel. Not Jesus. Not Allah. Not Moloch. Not Brahma or whatever the Hindus worship. When I say "the god of christians" I mean who they choose to worship which is (usually) Jesus. If you read the OT and compare it to what you read in the NT all should be clear.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#13 Nov 19, 2012
ThePreacherman01 wrote:
<quoted text> The God of Christians is the same God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob! There is only one God for everyone that is just plain fact. And to prove what I am saying just open up your Bible and tell us how many Gods you find in there!
Thirty-eight. I'm sure I missed some.

Adonis, Adrammelech, Anak, Anammelech, Artemis,, Asherah, Astoreth, Baal, Baalzebub, Bel, Chemosh, Dagon, El, the Elohim, Eris, Hadad, Hades, Hermes, Kadesh, Lilith, Lotan, Lucifer, Mammon, Marduk, Milcom, Moloch, Nergal, Rimmon, Shalim, Sophia, Tammuz, Tartarus, Thanatos, Tycho, Urania, Yahweh, Yam, Zelos

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#14 Nov 20, 2012
A person is sometimes playful, angry or sad; yes all sorts of emotions.

A person can be speaking from his wisdom and authority coming from his intuition on how things should be.

A person can be thinking cognitive and by reason.

This is the “trinity” of every person, and then why shouldn’t the people of ancient times give their gods the same properties?
It is just reflecting the structure of the human brain.

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#15 Nov 20, 2012
ThePreacherman01 wrote:
I started this thread to see if people who are Christian or non Christian can answer the question, can you??
This question has a VERY simple answer:

a) Jesus remarked on a question: "the son is like the father". The questioner then interpreted this as Jesus claiming to be God; but this was not so.
To be LIKE is not to be IT. The deputy judge is like the judge: Meaning deputy: 1. A person appointed or empowered to act for another.

This makes Jesus LIKE God, and so it is. Not the same, but a separate entity: thus Jesus and God are proven to be two entities.

b) The word Holy Ghost is the same as the word Holy Spirit (thus not like, but the same as)

The words Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit, are first used in the Old Testament

NIV/DR: 1 Ecclesiasticus 1:9 He created her in the Holy Ghost, and saw her, and numbered her, and measured her.
KJV: PSA 51: 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Then in the New Testament
MAT 1: 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with
child of the Holy Ghost.

This confirms that: Holy Spirit/Ghost, Jesus and God are separate entities, but yet one. It is simple.

c)

1) Read the verses where the words are used and you shall understand that the Holy Ghost is a spiritual part of God.

2) Jesus is the son of God, born by the Holy Spirit that came upon his mother and produced him in the womb, without sexual intercourse.

The Holy Ghost and Jesus only exist through the power of God.

To say God, Holy Ghost and Jesus are one is using a Metaphor to indicate that Holy Ghost and Jesus only exist through the power of God.

----------

- The Gospel is not the way you like to see it: it is the way it is.
- Jesus taught those who follow him only to Preach what he taught them - for they can never Teach you.

Calling The Unbeliever, Confronting The Lukewarm, Exposing The Hypocrite
Do Not Follow Men, Nor Churches! Come to Christ, says God!
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/christi...
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/baptism...

- Murder: the unauthorized (by God) killing of a creature
- Killing: the authorized (by God) putting to death of a creature
- Judging: In Christianity, the prohibited 'judging' is to execute a penalty upon another as retribution for their sins.
- CO1 5: 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
spandexxx

Rijswijk, Netherlands

#16 Nov 20, 2012
Peace For Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
The doctrine of the Trinity can be summed up as follows: Within the one Being that is God, there exist eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In order to prove this doctrine we must prove the following:
1. There is only one God
2. The Father is God
3. Jesus is God
4. The Holy Spirit is God
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons.
1. There is only one God:
Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are known as the big three monotheistic religions. You won’t find many arguments among Muslims, Jews, and Christians that there is more than one God, except perhaps among some aberrant sects. Nevertheless, let us establish this Scripturally before we move on to areas where disagreements will arise.
2. There is a plurality to God.
The Hebrew word for God is el in its singular form. The most common form used for God is elohim, which is plural in form. How can there be plural form used for only one God? Some suggest that the answer is found in the three persons of the Trinity. Others contend that the plural construct denotes a fullness of deity as opposed to plurality. I submit that both interpretations are correct. I’m getting ahead of myself now though. Rather than look at all the verses that use the plural elohim, let’s look at other verses that point to a plurality within the one God.
“Let us make man in our image”– Genesis 1:26, emphasis added.
“God said,‘Behold, the man has become like one of us…’”– Genesis 3:22, emphasis added.
3. The Father is God.
This isn’t really an item that is in question. While God the Father is only known as the Father in the New Testament, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and pseudo-Christian cults understand that the Father in the New Testament is the Yahweh of the Old Testament, though some disagree with the characterization of “Father”. However, it is important to establish that the Father of the New Testament is the true God referred to in the Old Testament, known often as Yahweh, or “Jehovah”.
4. Jesus is God.
There is a great deal of Scriptural evidence that Jesus Christ is God. The evidence is comprised not only of specific statements, but also in prophecy fulfillment and his attributes. Let’s first look at some of explicit Scriptural evidence. In this section, we won’t limit ourselves to only giving the text of two verses.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.”– John 1:1
“Thomas said to him,‘My Lord and my God!’”– John 20:28
I want to pause just a moment to discuss the verses above. The Greek word for God is theos. In John 1:1, we read that the Word (Jesus) was with theos and was indeed theos. Jesus was (and is) God! This is a very powerful statement! The word theos is used not only in John 1:1, but also in verse 18 and in John 20:28. Theos is used in the New Testament in reference to Jehovah/Yahweh God. Theos is also used in reference to Jesus. We’re beginning to see the plurality found within the one God.
5. The Holy Spirit is God
Less Scripture is dedicated to the Holy Spirit, but there is enough to conclude that He too is God. In Acts 5:3-4, we see the Holy Spirit being equated with God:
“Then Peter said,‘Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.’”[emphasis added]
http://www.contenderministries.org/biblestudy...
But if jezus himself is god the crucifixion makes no sense.
Think about it...jezus(god) sacrifices himself and prays to himself to appease himself to forgive the sins he himself gave to his own creation.
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#19 Nov 20, 2012
Mr Ironhart wrote:
A person is sometimes playful, angry or sad; yes all sorts of emotions.
A person can be speaking from his wisdom and authority coming from his intuition on how things should be.
A person can be thinking cognitive and by reason.
This is the “trinity” of every person, and then why shouldn’t the people of ancient times give their gods the same properties?
It is just reflecting the structure of the human brain.
Sorry Ironhart, but none of these "parts" you refer are actual separate parts and at any time every act independently in any manner. The human brain never splits (in the normal brain) into parts that actually act in a strict and linear way. When we think we're thinking in a straight line, we are not...and our bodes require the brain at all times. No matter how routine a physical act may be...

We are a whole, all the time. Mentally, physically and emotionally - it all works in unison. We cant think and not involve the body, if actual separation was was true than stress would not create illness. We can not abuse the body, or have it abused and not effect the brain.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#20 Nov 20, 2012
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry Ironhart, but none of these "parts" you refer are actual separate parts and at any time every act independently in any manner. The human brain never splits (in the normal brain) into parts that actually act in a strict and linear way. When we think we're thinking in a straight line, we are not...and our bodes require the brain at all times. No matter how routine a physical act may be...
We are a whole, all the time. Mentally, physically and emotionally - it all works in unison. We cant think and not involve the body, if actual separation was was true than stress would not create illness. We can not abuse the body, or have it abused and not effect the brain.
Well we could wish that we are in perfect mental control all the time, but the fact is that just one of these are the master over our behaviour at any time and not all of the three.

Have you ever met an uncontrolled angry person who later on calms down to be under reason and logics?
And it could shift so fast that we almost can’t notice the changes.

We are of course all the time consciously aware of what happens but not in perfect control, and we are all the time under the spell of just one of these “personalities”, my observations for many years leaves no doubt about that, and I am surely not the only one to have noticed.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#21 Nov 21, 2012
ThePreacherman01 wrote:
I started this thread to see if people who are Christian or non Christian can answer the question, can you??
The answer is that it's a STUPID question and shows your spiritual ignorance.
FSM

Collingwood, Australia

#22 Nov 21, 2012
ThePreacherman01 wrote:
I started this thread to see if people who are Christian or non Christian can answer the question, can you??
Yes, I believe that God is a trinity. I have 3 imaginary friends living in my head. FACT.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

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