Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men?

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Since: May 13

Altadena, CA

#1 May 5, 2013
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
I am a Christian and have the deepest respect for God's inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. I invite fellow Christians to participate in the questions for discussion. Two of the most basic teachings in Christendom are as follows:

1. THE TRINITY
The teaching that God is split up into three individual persons that are combined into one "Godhead" (Father, Son, and holy ghost/holy spirit). All three of these persons are said to be CO-EQUAL (meaning they have the same power) and CO-ETERNAL (meaning they have always existed at the same time and none of them can die).

2. HELLFIRE
The teaching that God will burn a person's soul in everlasting hellfire for committing wicked deeds. In other words, God will supposedly punish people forever in fiery flames of hell--despite the fact the crimes the persons committed were only done during the persons' brief human lifespan.

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Are there scriptures in the Bible to support the teachings of Trinity and hellfire? If so, present the scriptures by giving Bible book, chapter, and verse and also explain why you believe the scripture you present is talking about Trinity or literal hellfire.

2. Why are these teachings found in pagan/false religions that never worshipped the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible? For instance there were pagan trinities at least 200 years before Jesus came to the earth as a human.
A. In the 2nd century B.C.E.(two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Egypt had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Horus,(2) Osiris, and (3) Isis.

B. Likewise, in the 2nd century B.C.E.(two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Babylon had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Ishtar,(2) Sin, and (3) Shamash.

C. In fact, during the 1st century AD when Jesus was on earth, Palmyra, which was an ancient city in Syria, had a triune god which consisted of (1) moon god,(2) Lord of Heavens, and (3) sun god.

3. If the Trinity and hellfire are Bible teachings, why is it that Jesus and his apostles who followed him around never taught anyone about the Trinity and literal hellfire?

4. How is it that both the Trinity and hellfire teachings did not become "Christian" teachings until the Roman Catholics copied both of them from pagan/false religions--AFTER the resurrected Jesus Christ returned to heaven?

5. If hell is a place of literal fiery torment, how is it that the Bible says Jesus went to hell for the entire three days that he was dead?

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that HIS SOUL WAS NOT LEFT IN HELL, neither his flesh did see corruption." (Acts 2:31--King James Version)

6. If hell is a place of literal torment, why is it that the word "hell" also means "Sheol" and "Hades" and "the grave"?

7. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to this effect to prove it.

8. Are the words "Trinity" and "Godhead" in the Bible? If so, were those words part of the original writings?

__________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
Thinking

Atlanta, GA

#2 May 5, 2013
1. I do believe God as a whole is the father, son and Holy spirit. But i don't believe they are the same (Jesus isnt God and the Holy Spirit..etc), since Jesus said is was sent by the father and isnt greater than the father. But I believe God gave Jesus all power and Authority like quoted in Matt 28

2. Hell fire topic I think are due to verse for the OT and there translation to greek in the NT. There is a hell and people will go there, but im sure they will die there since it would make no sense to make someone suffer for 500 Billion years for 15-80 years of sins they did. Also if eternal hell fire is what God has in mind, it would have been told to Adam, Noah, Abraham, And Moses.

So to answer your questions, you cant thank the Great Roman Catholic Church for passing their non sense down through history.

I TRULY PRAY THE ATHEIST DONT COME AND DERAIL THIS THREAD AS WELL
Thinking

Atlanta, GA

#3 May 5, 2013
Also Do you believe the rapture is biblical or man made doctrine?

Since: May 13

Altadena, CA

#4 May 5, 2013
Thinking wrote:
1.[b]I do believe[/b] God as a whole is the father, son and Holy spirit.[b]But i don't believe[/b] they are the same (Jesus isnt God and the Holy Spirit..etc), since Jesus said is was sent by the father and isnt greater than the father. But I believe God gave Jesus all power and Authority like quoted in Matt 28
[b]ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:[/b]
Your above comments are contradictory. You started off telling me that you "do believe God as a whole is the father, son and Holy spirit." In the very next sentence, you did a complete 360 degrees reversal and said: "But i don't believe they are the same (Jesus isnt God and the Holy Spirit..etc)." So which is it that you actually do believe?
Jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

#5 May 6, 2013
Alter2Ego wrote:
<quoted text>
8. Are the words "Trinity" and "Godhead" in the Bible? If so, were those words part of the original writings?
THE WORD TRINITY DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL AFTER JESUS'S CRUCIFIXION.

Trinity in the Old Testament:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/triu...

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#6 May 6, 2013
Thinking wrote:
I TRULY PRAY THE ATHEIST DONT COME AND DERAIL THIS THREAD AS WELL
Did you mean "the atheists", idiot?

LOL - your prayers have been answered!

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#7 May 6, 2013
Doesn't it suck when you pray for something and you get the opposite of what you prayed for?

God must be a sadistic little old man, eh?

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#8 May 6, 2013
Alter2Ego wrote:
1. THE TRINITY
The teaching that God is split up into three individual persons that are combined into one "Godhead" (Father, Son, and holy ghost/holy spirit). All three of these persons are said to be CO-EQUAL (meaning they have the same power) and CO-ETERNAL (meaning they have always existed at the same time and none of them can die).
If Jesus and God are equal in power, then if God is omniscient so Jesus must be.

Yet according to Matthew 24:36, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

If that's true then Jesus wasn't omniscient, and therefore he couldn't be equal in power to God.

So God impregnated a virgin so she could give birth to himself, then he abandoned himself and stopped being himself so he could die, then he came back to life and now sits beside himself.

Okay, got it. <ROFLMAO>

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#9 May 6, 2013
Alter2Ego wrote:
2. HELLFIRE
The teaching that God will burn a person's soul in everlasting hellfire for committing wicked deeds. In other words, God will supposedly punish people forever in fiery flames of hell--despite the fact the crimes the persons committed were only done during the persons' brief human lifespan.
Since the soul has no pain receptors nor a brain to process sensations, how exactly does a soul "burn"?

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#10 May 6, 2013
Jesus is wrote:
<quoted text>
THE WORD TRINITY DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL AFTER JESUS'S CRUCIFIXION.
Trinity in the Old Testament:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/triu...
The concept of the Trinity was borrowed from older myths, such as Mithraism and Buddhism.

Actually, every single aspect of Christian mythology was taken from an earlier myth.

There may have been a rabbi who live 2000 years ago who broke with the orthodoxy and founded a new religion and was labeled a heretic, but the stories about Jesus in the NT are definitely mythological.
Ant

Palo Alto, CA

#11 May 6, 2013
Alter2Ego wrote:
<quoted text>
[b]ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:[/b]
Your above comments are contradictory. You started off telling me that you "do believe God as a whole is the father, son and Holy spirit." In the very next sentence, you did a complete 360 degrees reversal and said: "But i don't believe they are the same (Jesus isnt God and the Holy Spirit..etc)." So which is it that you actually do believe?
Alot of people hold this view as well. Believing that God consists of the father, Son, and Holy Spirit isnt considered the Trinity.

The Trinity is when you think Jesus is God, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit is Jesus, Holy Spirit is God, etc and all are co equal.

Our US government is the legislative, executive, and judicial branches that make up the Government, but are not the same.

In the same manner i think God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not the same thing, but scriptures do support Jesus and God as being like one, but Jesus isnt greater than the father and is at the right hand side of the father.
Thinking

Atlanta, GA

#12 May 6, 2013
Alter2Ego wrote:
<quoted text>
[b]ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:[/b]
Your above comments are contradictory. You started off telling me that you "do believe God as a whole is the father, son and Holy spirit." In the very next sentence, you did a complete 360 degrees reversal and said: "But i don't believe they are the same (Jesus isnt God and the Holy Spirit..etc)." So which is it that you actually do believe?
I think I explained it quiet clear. God as a whole is God the father, God the God and Gods Holy Spirit. They are 3 separate things that make up God, but the are not equal and not the same thing
Jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

#13 May 7, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>Doesn't it suck when you pray for something and you get the opposite of what you prayed for?
God must be a sadistic little old man, eh?
WHEN YOU ASK FOR SOMETHNG, DON'T YOU REALIZE THE ANSWER COULD BE "NO"???????
God knows what's best for all concerned. Even dying and going to Him may be the best solution.
Jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

#14 May 7, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
The concept of the Trinity was borrowed from older myths, such as Mithraism and Buddhism.
AND WHY DID THEY "BORROW" IT?
Because you call it "borrowed" I know that you have been brainwashed by Websites.

HAVE YOU STUDIED THE SO-CALLED PAGAN TRINITIES?
spandexxx

Voorhout, Netherlands

#15 May 7, 2013
Jesus is wrote:
<quoted text>
THE WORD TRINITY DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL AFTER JESUS'S CRUCIFIXION.
Trinity in the Old Testament:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/triu...
Not only that but the trinity makes the crucifixion story kind of nuts.
Think about it.
God creats jezus/god to make a blood sacrifice to himself to forgive himself for the sins he himself placed on humanity.
Jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

#16 May 7, 2013
Tell me about the Mithraism trinity, and the Buddhism trinity. and why you think they resemble the Christians concept of trinity.
Jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

#17 May 7, 2013
spandexxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only that but the trinity makes the crucifixion story kind of nuts.
Think about it.
God creats jezus/god to make a blood sacrifice to himself to forgive himself for the sins he himself placed on humanity.
The ancient Jews sacrificed baby animals, mostly lambs, to pay God for each sin, but God didn't ask for this and in fact hated it.

So to perform the sacrifice to end all sacrifices God sacrificed His lamb (Jesus was often referred to as the lamb of God), to his creations, after Jesus taught how to truly "pay" god for sins.
Jesus is

Blacktown, Australia

#18 May 7, 2013
JOHN 1:29:

'The next day John (THE BAPTIST) saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world"!

“Atheism is the right choice”

Since: Jun 12

Ringwood, Australia

#19 May 7, 2013
Jesus is wrote:
JOHN 1:29:
'The next day John (THE BAPTIST) saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world"!
Yeah, it sure worked didn't it?

Since: May 13

Altadena, CA

#20 May 7, 2013
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I explained it quiet clear. God as a whole is God the father, God the God and Gods Holy Spirit. They are 3 separate things that make up God, but the are not equal and not the same thing
ALTER2EGO -to- THINKING:
I have never once seen mention of "God the God" anywhere in the Judeo-Christian Bible. God's holy spirit is something he possesses or owns. Notice the possessive "s" that follows the word "God" so that you wind up with God's. Something that is possessed or owned cannot also be the person who possesses or owns it.

__________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)

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