== JohnnyTrunk DEBATE PreacherOfTruth ==

== JohnnyTrunk DEBATE PreacherOfTruth ==

Posted in the Christian Forum

PreacherOfTruth

San Antonio, TX

#1 Aug 23, 2013
You call me the preacher of hate.

How much do you love me?
PreacherOfTruth

San Antonio, TX

#2 Aug 24, 2013
Where in the bible is it written ...Jesus is the arch angel Michael?
PreacherOfTruth

San Antonio, TX

#3 Aug 24, 2013
You believe that Jesus is the arch angel Michael.

Satan is a angel.

Do you believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers?

Yes or no?
JohnnyTrunk

Westland, MI

#4 Aug 24, 2013
PreacherOfTruth wrote:
You call me the preacher of hate.
How much do you love me?
I do not love wicked people.

Proverbs 4:14
Darby Translation (DARBY)
14 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil [men]:
JohnnyTrunk

Westland, MI

#5 Aug 24, 2013
PreacherOfTruth wrote:
Where in the bible is it written ...Jesus is the arch angel Michael?
When you went under the name lion of God I tried to debate you on this subject and you said I had to many scriptures I am not going to do all the research again.
PreacherOfTruth

San Antonio, TX

#6 Aug 25, 2013
JohnnyTrunk wrote:
<quoted text>
When you went under the name lion of God I tried to debate you on this subject and you said I had to many scriptures I am not going to do all the research again.
Look at you...now. All you do is babble like dollarsbill.

lol
JohnnyTrunk

Westland, MI

#7 Aug 25, 2013
PreacherOfTruth wrote:
<quoted text>
Look at you...now. All you do is babble like dollarsbill.
lol
Yes ok visitor from canada
lol

Welch, WV

#8 Aug 25, 2013
PreacherOfTruth wrote:
You believe that Jesus is the arch angel Michael.
Satan is a angel.
Do you believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers?
Yes or no?
Hmmm, you're describing Jehovah Witness doctrine. False doctrine in other words.
JohnnyTrunk

Abington, PA

#9 Aug 26, 2013
lol wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmmm, you're describing Jehovah Witness doctrine. False doctrine in other words.
Prove it is false doctrine!!!
lol

Welch, WV

#10 Aug 26, 2013
JohnnyTrunk wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it is false doctrine!!!
What's to prove? That claim is patently ridiculous. Michael is Jesus? Are you serious?

http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Articles/Jesu...

Jesus is Not Michael the Archangel



The teaching that Jesus is Michael the Archangel is an old, tired Arian argument. The early Adventist pioneers taught the heresy called "Arianism" which teaches that Jesus is not God the Son, the second Person of the Trinity. Those who believe this false doctrine teach that Jesus is an exalted angel. Those, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, who promote this heresy today teach that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.

This early Adventist heresy appeared in several books and articles published by the church. It even manifested itself in the hymnology of the church. In the official Seventh-day Adventist hymnal, published from 1941 until its recent revision in 1985, the church had changed the words of the hymn "Holy, Holy, Holy" which says, "God in three Persons, blessed Trinity" to "God overall who rules eternity."



Evidence of this doctrinal pollution is found in the writings of Ellen White:

"Moses passed through death, but Michael came down and gave him life before his body had seen corruption. Satan tried to hold the body, claiming it as his; but Michael resurrected Moses and took him to heaven. Satan railed bitterly against God...but Christ did not rebuke His adversary... He meekly referred him to His Father, saying,'The Lord rebuke thee.'" Early Writings, p. 164 (emphasis added).

"When Jesus stands up; when his work is finished in the Most Holy, then there will be not another ray of light to be imparted to the sinner....The light is made to reach far ahead, where all is total darkness. MICHAEL stands up." Spiritual Gifts, vol. 2, p. 276 (emphasis added).

"As Christ and the angels approached the grave, Satan and his angels appeared at the grave, and were guarding the body of Moses, lest it should be removed. As Christ and his angels drew nigh, Satan resisted their approach, but was compelled, by the glory and power of Christ and his angels to fall back. Satan claimed the body of Moses, because of his one transgression; but Christ meekly referred him to his Father, saying, "The Lord rebuke thee." Spiritual Gifts, vol. 4a, p. 58 (emphasis added).

"Just before going into the meeting, I had a revival of some interesting scenes which had passed before me in vision...It seemed to me that the angels were making a rift in the cloud and letting in the beams of light from heaven. The subject that was presented so strikingly was the case of Moses....The angels buried him, but the Son of God soon came down and raised him from the dead and took him to heaven." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 659 (emphasis added).

"As a people we must stand as did the world's Redeemer. When in controversy with Satan, in regard to the body of Moses, Christ durst not bring against him a railing accusation." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 9, p. 239.
JohnnyTrunk

Abington, PA

#11 Aug 27, 2013
lol wrote:
<quoted text>
What's to prove? That claim is patently ridiculous. Michael is Jesus? Are you serious?
http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Articles/Jesu...
Jesus is Not Michael the Archangel
The teaching that Jesus is Michael the Archangel is an old, tired Arian argument. The early Adventist pioneers taught the heresy called "Arianism" which teaches that Jesus is not God the Son, the second Person of the Trinity. Those who believe this false doctrine teach that Jesus is an exalted angel. Those, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, who promote this heresy today teach that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
This early Adventist heresy appeared in several books and articles published by the church. It even manifested itself in the hymnology of the church. In the official Seventh-day Adventist hymnal, published from 1941 until its recent revision in 1985, the church had changed the words of the hymn "Holy, Holy, Holy" which says, "God in three Persons, blessed Trinity" to "God overall who rules eternity."
Evidence of this doctrinal pollution is found in the writings of Ellen White:
"Moses passed through death, but Michael came down and gave him life before his body had seen corruption. Satan tried to hold the body, claiming it as his; but Michael resurrected Moses and took him to heaven. Satan railed bitterly against God...but Christ did not rebuke His adversary... He meekly referred him to His Father, saying,'The Lord rebuke thee.'" Early Writings, p. 164 (emphasis added).
"When Jesus stands up; when his work is finished in the Most Holy, then there will be not another ray of light to be imparted to the sinner....The light is made to reach far ahead, where all is total darkness. MICHAEL stands up." Spiritual Gifts, vol. 2, p. 276 (emphasis added).
"As Christ and the angels approached the grave, Satan and his angels appeared at the grave, and were guarding the body of Moses, lest it should be removed. As Christ and his angels drew nigh, Satan resisted their approach, but was compelled, by the glory and power of Christ and his angels to fall back. Satan claimed the body of Moses, because of his one transgression; but Christ meekly referred him to his Father, saying, "The Lord rebuke thee." Spiritual Gifts, vol. 4a, p. 58 (emphasis added).
"Just before going into the meeting, I had a revival of some interesting scenes which had passed before me in vision...It seemed to me that the angels were making a rift in the cloud and letting in the beams of light from heaven. The subject that was presented so strikingly was the case of Moses....The angels buried him, but the Son of God soon came down and raised him from the dead and took him to heaven." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 659 (emphasis added).
"As a people we must stand as did the world's Redeemer. When in controversy with Satan, in regard to the body of Moses, Christ durst not bring against him a railing accusation." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 9, p. 239.
Testimonies for the church you got to be joking right?

Spiritual Gifts you got to be kidding right?

where is your proof from the Bible?
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#12 Aug 27, 2013
huh, one imaginary being is not the same as another...

You guys are like comic book nerds...
no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#13 Aug 27, 2013
lol wrote:
<quoted text>
.

Before I begin let me say that I'm not a JW. Now as for the debate about whether Jesus was special angel or not, there is plenty of evidence in scripture to suggest that he was. Just hear me out for a minute.

.

Online Bibles you can use--http://biblehub.com/

.

The first thing we need to look at in scripture is what Jesus teaches us about his God and Father's form. One of the things Jesus teaches us is that his God and Father is 'Spirit'(read --JOHN 4:23-24) and that no one had ever seen his Father's form nor heard his voice ( JOHN 5:37-38 ). This is very important. The word 'Spirit' in John 4 is describing the idea that God is not, never was, nor ever will be, a physical or material creature. Nothing that can be seen, recognized, felt or touched in the physical world. Since a spirit has no form, then the word is simply telling us God has no form. This is a belief the Jewish Apostles would still keep about God, even after Jesus had just come in the form of flesh and blood. Here are few examples:

.

----1 JOHN 4:12 No one has ever seen God ; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

.

-----1 TIMOTHY 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.

.

------1 TIMOTHY 6:15-16 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; (God*) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.

.

Jesus' description about his Father in John 4:24 and John 5:37-38 should also tell you that Moses and the Prophets of the Old Testament were not dealing with the Father (God) himself but were hearing and seeing God the Fathers' Emissary. Who is this Emissary you ask? Well, In the book of Exodus Chapter 23 verse 21 we see that Moses is told not to rebel against an "Angel" or should I say God's Emissary because God's Name was in him. You'll notice that all throughout the Old Testament, God allowed Moses and the Prophets to communicate directly with His Ambassador ( Angel ) who they referred to as "the God of Israel" or "angel of the LORD". Now, the reason we know who this Angel was is because of what the Apostles tell us in New Testament times in (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)--&--(Acts 7:37-38) on who Moses in the book of Exodus Chapter 3 was seeing in the burning bush and speaking to on Mount Horeb (Sinai). Now let's put Hebrews 1:5 back into perspective. All Hebrews 1:5 is saying is no other angel had recieved such a title and name like the Angel of the Lord (sometimes refered to in the OT as the God of Israel/Lord).

.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#14 Aug 27, 2013
Punisher wrote:
huh, one imaginary being is not the same as another...
You guys are like comic book nerds...
Except you're not on comic book forums arguing with them. You're here though lol ;)

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