Christianity's biggest lie

Christianity's biggest lie

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Since: Feb 10

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#1 Apr 23, 2013
The Christian faith is based on the premise that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sins of the world.

But that can't be true.

Let’s examine some details of the narrative:

- Jesus came here to die, and knew it was going to happen.
- Jesus knew it wouldn’t be permanent.
- Jesus isn’t dead.

That last one is important.

Simple question: why is it called a "sacrifice" if he isn't dead?

Here we have someone who is literally a god, who knows he came here to die on the cross (but only for three days) after which he’d be immortal for all eternity. The average fireman risks himself more on every shift.

Ah, but perhaps you're thinking that he was separated from God at the time, and that he was just a man, and that he felt pain and fear and disconnection. That would make more sense if he wasn't actually God himself. All the trinity hand-waving in the world doesn't square that circle.

He knew he was going to live forever. He knew "dying" wasn’t death at all, since he’s actually the creator of the universe and could simply regenerate himself, make 1,000 more universes if he wanted to, have 1,000 more sons if he wanted to, etc. Every single obstacle was self-imposed.

Christian theology claims that God "gave his only begotten son."

Explain that to me. Who gave who? God is God. Jesus is God. They're all part of the Trinity, right? So how does one part of the trinity sacrifice another part of it - except not - because neither part actually died.

Then explain how an omnipotent entity cannot simply create 10,000 more sons, or suns, or multiverses. He can change light to dark, change Coke to Pepsi, destroy the totality of existence as easily as he created it - whatever. But losing a "son" for a weekend, when that "son" is actually a 100% immortal piece of yourself - that's supposedly a hardship.

And keep in mind that he actually created - atom by atom - the entire world in which this so-called tragedy would happen. Not only did he create the Earth and the Jews and the weapons and the food and the legal system that would be used to convict him, but he also already knew the outcome before he even started. So he went from being alone to putting the entire thing in motion, knowing precisely how it would play out. This doesn't just take the sting out of it - it makes the entire thing ridiculous.
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#2 Apr 23, 2013
You atheist get more clueless by each post you make.

Read the bible first and get a understanding.

Isaiah 42 & 53 point to Jesus and many parts of the New testament explain why he had to die.

God divorced Israel in the book of Jeremiah 3 for worshiping other Gods. They could not come bad to him or that would be Adultery. He told them later in that book Jer 9:31-32 that he would make a New Covenant with them. So someone had to die in order for Israel to come back to God. The beginning of Rom 7 explains the concept of adultery as well too.

----------
Hebrews 9
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
----------

This clearly states in order for the New Covenant to begin with what God promised to Israel, Jesus had to die.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#3 Apr 23, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
Simple question: why is it called a "sacrifice" if he isn't dead?
Because He died maybe?

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#4 Apr 24, 2013
Ant wrote:
You atheist get more clueless by each post you make.
Read the bible first and get a understanding.
Isaiah 42 & 53 point to Jesus and many parts of the New testament explain why he had to die.
God divorced Israel in the book of Jeremiah 3 for worshiping other Gods. They could not come bad to him or that would be Adultery. He told them later in that book Jer 9:31-32 that he would make a New Covenant with them. So someone had to die in order for Israel to come back to God. The beginning of Rom 7 explains the concept of adultery as well too.
----------
Hebrews 9
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
----------
This clearly states in order for the New Covenant to begin with what God promised to Israel, Jesus had to die.
But Jesus didn't actually die, because you can't kill a God.

So what was Jesus' actual sacrifice? His human body. Thousands of people have sacrificed their human lives for others, so how is Jesus any different?

Who should get more respect, a mortal human who gives up his or her life for others, or an immortal god who merely sheds a human skin?

Christianity is a perversion of the true meaning of sacrifice, and ultimately demeaning to the scores of humans who made the ultimate sacrifice knowing they would not rise again.
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#6 Apr 24, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
But Jesus didn't actually die, because you can't kill a God.
So what was Jesus' actual sacrifice? His human body. Thousands of people have sacrificed their human lives for others, so how is Jesus any different?
Who should get more respect, a mortal human who gives up his or her life for others, or an immortal god who merely sheds a human skin?
Christianity is a perversion of the true meaning of sacrifice, and ultimately demeaning to the scores of humans who made the ultimate sacrifice knowing they would not rise again.
Jesus is not God!!!

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#7 Apr 24, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus is not God!!!
Prove it.
Holy Trinity

Fayetteville, NC

#8 Apr 26, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus is not God!!!
Jesus is God you twit. You going to let these stupid azz atheists rewrite history and turn Jesus into a man? The stupid azz Muslims believe Jesus was just a man. If you think Jesus was just a man take your azz to the Muslim forum.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#9 Apr 26, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
But Jesus didn't actually die, because you can't kill a God.
So what was Jesus' actual sacrifice? His human body. Thousands of people have sacrificed their human lives for others, so how is Jesus any different?
Who should get more respect, a mortal human who gives up his or her life for others, or an immortal god who merely sheds a human skin?
Christianity is a perversion of the true meaning of sacrifice, and ultimately demeaning to the scores of humans who made the ultimate sacrifice knowing they would not rise again.
<><
Jesus is NOT "a" God! Jesus is God.
mztza

Mesa, AZ

#10 Apr 26, 2013
yes
JESUS died in the flesh, just like any human
but his spirit, soul, what ever you want to call it
still lives,
just like when we die, we also die in the flesh,
but our spirit goes to GOD, and yet we still are alive
JESUS, allowed himself to feel, hunger, pain, sorrow, sufferings, betrayals,
to let us know, he understands what we go thru,
because he has had the same experiences
how can you give guidance or advice if you have never been thru it
he allowed all that to happen because he loves us,
would any parent willing give their life to help, save the child
because of LOVE
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#11 Apr 30, 2013
Holy Trinity wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus is God you twit. You going to let these stupid azz atheists rewrite history and turn Jesus into a man? The stupid azz Muslims believe Jesus was just a man. If you think Jesus was just a man take your azz to the Muslim forum.
You idiot, Jesus is not the father. He is the son that is at the right hand side of his father. God gave him all power and authority in the end of Matt 28.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#12 Apr 30, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
Jesus is NOT "a" God! Jesus is God.
No, Jesus cannot be God, for two reasons:

1. God cannot die, and Jesus died.

2. God knows everything, but Jesus claimed that only God knew the day and hour of the End Times. If Jesus isn't omniscient he isn't God.

Some Christians claim that God stopped being God just for a moment so that he could experience death, or that he suspended his omniscience when he walked the Earth as Jesus.

They are convenient answers, but ultimately unsatisfying and illogical.

A god who impregnated a virgin woman, then gave birth to himself, then was forsaken by himself and died but didn't die? ROFLMAO!

Jesus and God are the same in only one way: they are both mythical creatures.
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#13 Apr 30, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Jesus cannot be God, for two reasons:
1. God cannot die, and Jesus died.
2. God knows everything, but Jesus claimed that only God knew the day and hour of the End Times. If Jesus isn't omniscient he isn't God.
Some Christians claim that God stopped being God just for a moment so that he could experience death, or that he suspended his omniscience when he walked the Earth as Jesus.
They are convenient answers, but ultimately unsatisfying and illogical.
A god who impregnated a virgin woman, then gave birth to himself, then was forsaken by himself and died but didn't die? ROFLMAO!
Jesus and God are the same in only one way: they are both mythical creatures.
I normally dont agree with you, but God giving birth to himself is hilarious.

They exist, but are not the same person

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#14 Apr 30, 2013
mztza wrote:
yes
JESUS died in the flesh, just like any human
but his spirit, soul, what ever you want to call it
still lives,
just like when we die, we also die in the flesh,
but our spirit goes to GOD, and yet we still are alive
JESUS, allowed himself to feel, hunger, pain, sorrow, sufferings, betrayals,
to let us know, he understands what we go thru,
because he has had the same experiences
how can you give guidance or advice if you have never been thru it
he allowed all that to happen because he loves us,
would any parent willing give their life to help, save the child
because of LOVE
So you're basically saying that Jesus was no different from other humans.

According to Scripture, God breathed himself into a human body (Adam).

According to Scripture, Jesus was God in human form. He had a mortal body but an immortal soul.

Well, according to Christian theology, all humans have mortal bodies and immortal souls.

As for the miracles Jesus allegedly performed, please remember that his disciples were given the same ability to perform miracles, such as healing the sick and raising the dead.

Thus there is no difference between Jesus and any other human, which means Jesus wasn't God. If he was, then so are we all.
Big Al

Grand Rapids, MN

#15 Apr 30, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
Jesus is NOT "a" God! Jesus is God.
So you believe that “God” sacrificed “Himself” to “Himself” in order to appease “His” own wrath over offences committed against “Him” by human beings created by “Him”?

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#16 Apr 30, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
So you believe that “God” sacrificed “Himself” to “Himself” in order to appease “His” own wrath over offences committed against “Him” by human beings created by “Him”?
<><
Read my post again. I said "Jesus is NOT "a" God. He is God."
Big Al

Grand Rapids, MN

#17 Apr 30, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
Read my post again. I said "Jesus is NOT "a" God. He is God."
So you believe that “God” sacrificed “Himself” to “Himself” in order to appease “His” own wrath over offences committed against “Him” by human beings created by “Him”?

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#18 Apr 30, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
So you believe that “God” sacrificed “Himself” to “Himself” in order to appease “His” own wrath over offences committed against “Him” by human beings created by “Him”?
<><
You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. Try saying this a few times Elf, Gopher, Cures.
Big Al

Grand Rapids, MN

#19 Apr 30, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. Try saying this a few times Elf, Gopher, Cures.
I’ll try this.

If you believe that Jesus is “God” and that “His” crucifixion was a sacrifice which redeemed you from your sins then do you believe that “God” sacrificed “Himself” to “Himself” in order to appease “His” own wrath over offences committed against “Him” by human beings created by “Him”?

If you don’t believe that you can just say that you don’t believe that because I don’t believe it either.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#20 Apr 30, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
I’ll try this.
If you believe that Jesus is “God” and that “His” crucifixion was a sacrifice which redeemed you from your sins then do you believe that “God” sacrificed “Himself” to “Himself” in order to appease “His” own wrath over offences committed against “Him” by human beings created by “Him”?
If you don’t believe that you can just say that you don’t believe that because I don’t believe it either.
<><
I don't give ache wrap what you do or do not believe. Where do you get sacrifice? Since it was not a sacrifice, it is not to anyone. It was not to appease anyone. I know, if you are going to try to attack Christianity, why don't you read some Christian writings and find out what it is you are trying to attack.
Big Al

Grand Rapids, MN

#21 Apr 30, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
I don't give ache wrap what you do or do not believe. Where do you get sacrifice? Since it was not a sacrifice, it is not to anyone. It was not to appease anyone. I know, if you are going to try to attack Christianity, why don't you read some Christian writings and find out what it is you are trying to attack.
The vast majority of Christians of believe that the crucifixion was a sacrifice to atone for the sins of men. If you do not believe that I’d be interested to hear what you do believe the purpose of the crucifixion was.

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