The Origins of the Trinity Doctrine !...

The Origins of the Trinity Doctrine !..Pagan

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Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#2 Aug 19, 2008
World's Oldest Bible Rejects The Resurrection!

July 23, 2008 | by Christopher Nickson

The British Library is going to put what remains of the world's oldest Bible online for all to see and study.

The world’s oldest Bible, the Codex Sinaiticus, was written in Greek more than 1,600 years ago. It’s always been a controversial book, containing pieces not in the “standard” Bible, like the Epistle of Barnabas and definitely not containing the resurrection of Jesus. It was discovered in 1844 in St. Catherine’s Monastery close to Mt. Sinai, and parts of it are still there.
The other remaining fragments are in Russia, Germany, and in Britain - at the British Library.

Now, according to Reuters, the British Library will put all the remains of the bible online for free viewing.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#3 Aug 19, 2008
The Origins of the Trinity Doctrine!

The New Encyclopedia Britannica says:“Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament:‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’(Deut. 6:4).... The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.... By the end of the 4th century ... the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropedia, Vol. X, p. 126.

According to the Catholics themselves....

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states:“The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says:“The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read:“Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel,“The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches.... This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity ... can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

United States

#5 Aug 19, 2008

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#6 Aug 19, 2008
What about the Bible? Who actually wrote it?

What was the original language of the Bible?(Hebrew? Aramaic? Koine Greek?)
NOTE:- The Bible was never in English during the time of any prophet (not even Muhammad)- because English did not exist until after 1066 AD!

Does the Bible exist in the original form anywhere on earth?(No)

Why does the Catholic Bible has seven (7) more books than the Protestant Bible?

Why do these two Bibles have different versions of the same books?

Why are there so many mistakes and errors are from the very first verse right up to the very last verse?

Why do 'Born Again Christians' teach concepts that are not from the Bible?

There is no word "Trinity" in the Bible in any version of any language

The oldest forms of Christianity do not support the 'born again' beliefs

Jesus of the English Bible complains about the 'crucifixion'
("Eli! Eli! Lama sabachthani?- My God! My God! Why have You forsaken me?")[Mk 15:34]

How can Jesus be the "Only Begotten Son" of John 3:16? When in Psalms 2:7 David is God's "Begotten Son?"

Would a 'Just' God, a 'Fair' God, a 'Loving' God -- punish Jesus for the sins of the people that he called to follow him?

What happens to people who died before Jesus came?

What happens to those who never hear this message?

What about innocent children who die although their parents are not Christian?

Didn't God create Adam from dirt?-- So, why does he need Mary to make Jesus?

And what about God?
How can God create Himself?
How can God be a man?
How can a man be a God?
How can God have a son?
The Bible says "Seth (is) the son of Adam" and that"Adam is the son of God." [Lk 3:36]
Can't God just forgive us and not have to kill Jesus?
And what about Jesus?
Jesus did not even carry the cross -- Simon Cyre'ne, a passerby did![Mk 15:21]
Jesus of the Bible was NOT on the cross for longer than six (6) hours -- NOT three days --(from the 3rd to the 9th hour)[Mk 15:25 & 15:33]
Jesus of the Bible did not spend three days and nights in the tomb -- Friday night - until Sunday before dawn -- is not 3 days and nights!
Jesus DID NOT claim to be God - or even equal to God!

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#7 Aug 19, 2008
If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?

Jesus said: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone". If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#8 Aug 19, 2008

(This is helpful if you want to convert someone to Christianity)

Jesus is God and God is Jesus, whom are both separately and jointly the Holy Ghost, therefore:

1. God is greater than Jesus.

2. Jesus is greater than God.

3. Jesus is greater than himself.

4. God is greater than himself.

5. The Holy Ghost is greater than Jesus.

6. Jesus is greater than the Holy Ghost.

6. The Holy Ghost is greater than God.

7. God is greater than the Holy Ghost.

8. The Holy Ghost is greater than himself.

If you don't believe it, read the Bible and see for yourself.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#9 Aug 19, 2008
A simple Question:

If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being a Christian, why didn’t Jesus teach and emphasize it to the Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus considered Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity?

Had the Trinity been the spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have emphasized it on many occasions and would have taught and explained it in detail to the people.

Remember that Jesus (PBUH) had spoken openly to the world and spoke nothing in secret as he said in the bible:

“Jesus answered him, "I have spoken openly to the world; I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret.”[John 18:20]

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#10 Aug 19, 2008
The Trinity Doctrine Is Pagan

By: Pastor G. Reckart, Pastor

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#11 Aug 19, 2008
The three branches of the Catholic Church that grew out of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, are the Eastern orthodox Greek Catholic Church, The Roman Catholic Church, and Protestant Catholic Churches. The difference between the original true Christianity that began at Jerusalem and the one originated by the Council of Nicaea is the Oneness Monarchian Message.

Few realize that the trinity doctrine that was adopted at the Council of Nicaea and thereafter molded into several Creeds descends from Mystery Babylon via Greek philosophy in Plato's theories, and from Jewish Gnosticism, not from the Bible.

All Pagan religions from the time of Babylon, have adopted in one form or another a trinity doctrine or a triad or trinity of gods. In Babylon it was Nimrod, Semiramas, and Tammuz; In Egypt it was Osiris, Isis, and Horus; within Israel pagan gnosticism it was Kether, Hokhmah, and Binah; In Plato's philosophy it was the Unknown Father, Nous/Logos, and the world soul. But in Old Testament Judaism there was only One God, a numerical ONE. The difference between paganism and God's people has always been the Oneness Monarchian Message reinforced by the First Commandment that prohibits any theory of a plurality.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#12 Aug 19, 2008
What God Says About His Oneness in The Bible:

[EXO 20:3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

[ISA 45:22] Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

[ISA 44:6] Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

[ISA 46:9] Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

[ISA 44:8] Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

[REV 1:8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#13 Aug 19, 2008
Within Nimrod's Mystery Babylon eventually came the philosophy that the trinity was a unity of persons whose perfect agreement upon all things, made them one. They were one in agreement and this mutual consent merged into the idea of the one unity of essence. The trinity in unity doctrine was thus stated in the cult as the one essence or nature of the three. As it relates to Nimrod, Simeramus, and Tammuz, they were one in essence, the essence being identified as human gods. When these human gods became deified, it was accepted these three gods were in reality reincarnated avatars or spiritual guides.

It was taught that these three deceased gods were in fact not only once human but were actually sparks of the cosmic soul of one essence. This is interpreted within the occult as the one. This is interpreted as saying that the cosmos is God and man is a microcosm of the cosmos, in reincarnation. The idea of their karma is the perfecting of the soul and merging back into the unity and perfection of the one. This is alleged to rule all human affairs. Thus the zodiac becomes the rule of the one god of the cosmos upon and charting the human purpose.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#14 Aug 19, 2008
Within this occult mysticism, the spirits within Nimrod, Simeramus, and Tammuz were the real essence of the cosmos that made their trinity family a unique fullness of the one pluralistic cosmos. The next step in the formation of the trinity in unity concept, was to teach the idea of emanation. The doctrine of emanation is the pantheistic concept behind the teachings of evolution, all things emanate and evolve from the one source and are a part of the whole in unity and of the same substance.

The idea of emanation of a primary God making of himself another God by subdividing his person as an amoeba splits in half to form another like being, is purely pagan. From Genesis 1:1 and the words:*In the beginning God,* we have the idea of a singular God and there being none else. It is true that the Hebrew word Elohim from which we get the word *God* is a plural word. But that does not mean there are plural Gods.

From ancient time Mystery Babylon has tried to make God what he is not. The ancient Godly Jews would have never dreamed of their being more than one God. They were prohibited by the first Commandment of having a pluralistic concept or view. It was from within this revelation, in contradiction to the surrounding religions of Pagan trinitarians, that Israel worship the One LORD of the Old Testament, chanting :*Hear O Israel, the LORD our GOD is ONE LORD.*

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#15 Aug 19, 2008
The plural use of *us* as in let *us* make man; Let *u*s go down; were interpreted by the Jews to be God speaking to his angels. It was only after the Council of Nicaea that the Catholics fled to these verses in order to find Scriptural support and excuse for adopting Plato's trinity in unity doctrine that he borrowed from Mystery Babylon.

The doctrinal position formulated at Nicaea was that if a theory does not conform to the Scriptures, then the Scriptures must be reinterpreted to conform to the theory.

Theory was then based upon spiritualizing or bending toward mysticism and philosophy for its support of the great Mystery of Babylon. Except they drop the word Babylon and say only that the trinity is a great MYSTERY that no one can understand. The world is deceived to believe the trinity should be left to mystics and philosophers to interpret, exactly as they did in ancient Mystery Babylon.

The next shoe to drop is to inhibit the human mind from examining the theory, by claiming no one can understand it, it must be accepted by faith. Or as one Minister once said: "If you try to understand the trinity you will lose your mind, but if you don't believe it you will lose your soul." This from a man who preached salvation by faith and then said: "O, by the way, if you don't believe in the trinity you can never be saved."

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#16 Aug 19, 2008
Dictionary of The Bible 1995 John L. Mckenzie:

"The trinity of God is defined by the church as the belief that in God are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical belief."

Why You Should Believe In The Trinity 1989 Robert M. Bowman Jr.:

"The New Testament does not contain a formalized explanation of the trinity that uses such words as trinity, three persons, one substance, and the like."

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology 1976:

"The Bible lacks the express declaration that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence.[said Karl Barth]"

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#17 Aug 19, 2008
Exploring The Christian Faith 1992

"nowhere in the Bible do we find the doctrine of the trinity clearly formulated"

"People who are using the King James Version might be inclined to point to I John 5:7 'For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost' But it is now generally recognized that this verse does not belong to the original text of the letter; it is a later insertion."

"The theological formulation took place later, after the days of the apostles."

"the doctrine of the trinity is not found in the Bible"

"The doctrine was to develop along mainly Greek lines"

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#18 Aug 19, 2008
Dictionary Of The Bible 1995 John L. Mckenzie:

"The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of 'person' and 'nature' which are Greek philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as 'essence' and 'substance' were erroneously applied to God by some theologians."

The Rise of Christianity W.H.C. Frend 1985:

"For him [Clement] the trinity consisted of a hierarchy of three graded beings, and from that concept - derived from Platonism - depended much of the remainder of his theological teaching."

The Doctrine of the Trinity Christianity’s Self-Inflicted Wound 1994 Anthony F. Buzzard Charles F. Hunting:

"Eberhard Griesebach, in an acedemic lecture on "Christianity and humanism" delivered in 1938, observed that in its encounter with Greek philosophy Christianity became theology. That was the fall of Christianity. The Problem thus highlighted stems from the fact that traditional orthodoxy, while it claims to find its origins in scripture, in fact contains elements drawn from a synthesis of Scripture and Neo-Platonism. The mingling of Hebrew and Greek thinking set in motion first in the second century by an influx of Hellenism through the Church Fathers, whose theology was colored by the Platonists Plotinus and Porphyry. The effects of the Greek influence are widely recognized by theologians, though they go largely unnoticed by many believers."

"... the Trinity is an unintelligible proposition of platonic mysticisms that three are one and one is three" [quote from Thomas Jefferson]

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#19 Aug 19, 2008
The Greek mythology and pagan religious beliefs were derived from Babylon.

Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel 1870:

"The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches ... This Greek philosopher's (Plato, 4th century BC) conception of the divine trinity ... can be found in all ancient (pagan) religions"

The Two Babylons 1916 Rev. Alexander Hislop:

"Egypt and Greece derived their religion from Babylon"

Microsoft Encarta Funk & Wagnalls 1994:

"Neoplatonism is a type of idealistic monism in which the ultimate reality of the universe is held to be an infinite, unknowable, perfect One. From this One emanates nous (pure intelligence), whence in turn is derived the world soul, the creative activity of which engenders the lesser souls of human beings. The world soul is conceived as an image of the nous, even as the nous is an image of the One; both the nous and the world soul, despite their differentiation, are thus consubstantial [one substance] with the One."

Microsoft Encarta Funk & Wagnalls 1994:

"The theologians Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and St. Augustine were early Christian exponents of a Platonic perspective. Platonic ideas have had a crucial role in the development of Christian theology"

The Rise of Christianity W.H.C. Frend 1985:

"we find Christianity tending to absorb Greek philosophical values, until by the end of the third century the line between the beliefs of educated Christian and educated pagan in the east would often be hard to draw."

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#20 Aug 19, 2008
Catholic Encyclopedia 1991:

"The term 'Trinity' does not appear in scripture"

"(The Doctrine of the Trinity)- hammered out over the course of three centuries of doctrinal controversy against modalism and subordinationism"

Why You Should Believe In The Trinity 1989 Robert M. Bowman Jr.:

"Roman Catholics .. often claim that the trinity is not a biblical doctrine and was first revealed through the ministry of the church centuries after the Bible was written. This is in keeping with the Roman Catholic belief that Christian doctrine may be based either on the Bible or on church tradition."

The Roman Catholic Church did not get the doctrine of the trinity from the Bible, they hammered out their own theology of what they wanted God to be over several hundred years, and mixed Greek philosophy with Babylonian mystery religion, and their own private interpretations of the Bible.

[I Peter 1:20, 21] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

[II Timothy 2:15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

People don't respect God’s Word, they are more interested in inventing their own theology by the will of man instead of believing the word of God, they are not interested in rightly dividing God's word of truth. The trinity is private interpretation and wrong dividing of God's word.

“Seek and Ye Shall Find”

Since: Aug 08


#21 Aug 19, 2008
Yes, you are right Moslim dude but while right in this thread, you are wrong in your belief of Allah and Muhammad.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#22 Aug 19, 2008
Jesus Christ is not God 1975 Victor Paul Wierwille:

"Long before the founding of Christianity the idea of a triune god or a god-in-three persons was a common belief in ancient religions. Although many of these religions had many minor deities, they distinctly acknowledged that there was one supreme God who consisted of three persons or essences. The Babylonians used an equilateral triangle to represent this three-in-one god, now the symbol of the modern three-in-one believers."

"The Hindu trinity was made up of the gods Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. The Greek triad was composed of Zeus, Athena and Apollo. These three were said by the pagans to 'agree in one.' One of the largest pagan temples built by the Romans was constructed at Ballbek (situated in present day Lebanon) to their trinity of Jupiter, Mercury and Venus. In Babylon the planet Venus was revered as special and was worshipped as a trinity consisting of Venus, the moon and the sun. This triad became the Babylonian holy trinity in the fourteenth century before Christ."

"Although other religions for thousands of years before Christ was born worshipped a triune god, the trinity was not a part of Christian dogma and formal documents of the first three centuries after Christ."

"That there was no formal, established doctrine of the trinity until the fourth century is a fully documented historical fact."

"Clearly, historians of church dogma and systematic theologians agree that the idea of a Christian trinity was not a part of the first century church. The twelve apostles never subscribed to it or received revelation about it. So how then did a trinitarian doctrine come about? It gradually evolved and gained momentum in late first, second and third centuries as pagans, who had converted to Christianity, brought to Christianity some of their pagan beliefs and practices."

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