Impossible To Deconvert A Believer?

Impossible To Deconvert A Believer?

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Job

Santa Clara, CA

#1 Sep 27, 2013
Yes! Might be one of the biggest wastes of time to attempt to do so.

An example, the apostle Peter. His understanding of who Christ is came straight from God the Father, so it would have been impossible to convince him otherwise. Had God the father 'not' revealed Himself to Peter, he could have been swayed at some point to disbelieve who Christ said He was.

Ah, but Peter denied that he knew Christ 3 times. Yes, but that doesn't mean that he stopped believing the "revelation" given to him by God the Father. Although he did 'deny' that he was a follower of Christ, he was actually following him (literally). Peter was evidently overcome with emotion as he seemed to be angered by the accusations. The Bible doesn't go into detail as to the thoughts of Peter at the time, but he may very well have been angered, or disappointed with Christ. At one point he was rebuked by Jesus who pointed out to him that his very words were that of Satan. Jesus also healed a soldier who's ear was cutoff by Peter while Peter attempted to protect Jesus.

Anger and disappointment without completely abandoning faith didn't begin with Peter. Mary and Martha were disappointed that Jesus didn't arrive earlier when their brother Lazarus fell sick. They had a problem believing that Christ could raise Lazarus from the dead at that point in time, but they didn't reject who Jesus claimed to be.

In the Old Testament, the Prophet Jonah seemed to be angered at God's command to preach to the Ninevites. "Belief" in God however was never an issue. In fact, ironically, the apparent problem he seemed to have was his understanding of God's 'goodness'. It's ironic in the face of contemporary accusations that God is evil by misunderstanding of, or purposeful misrepresentation of scripture. The Prophet Jonah knew that God would forgive the Ninevites if they repented.

Why do Christians become atheists/agnostics, Buddhists, etc.?

Humans don't become Christians via osmosis. Being brought up in church for instance will not produce a spiritual union with Christ 'without' that revelation that God gave to the Apostle Peter. Without that revelation, one 'can' purchase the sales pitch of an activist atheist, Buddhist, etc.
Mojaddabull

San Diego, CA

#3 Sep 27, 2013
Job wrote:
Yes! Might be one of the biggest wastes of time to attempt to do so.
An example, the apostle Peter. His understanding of who Christ is came straight from God the Father, so it would have been impossible to convince him otherwise. Had God the father 'not' revealed Himself to Peter, he could have been swayed at some point to disbelieve who Christ said He was.
Ah, but Peter denied that he knew Christ 3 times. Yes, but that doesn't mean that he stopped believing the "revelation" given to him by God the Father. Although he did 'deny' that he was a follower of Christ, he was actually following him (literally). Peter was evidently overcome with emotion as he seemed to be angered by the accusations. The Bible doesn't go into detail as to the thoughts of Peter at the time, but he may very well have been angered, or disappointed with Christ. At one point he was rebuked by Jesus who pointed out to him that his very words were that of Satan. Jesus also healed a soldier who's ear was cutoff by Peter while Peter attempted to protect Jesus.
Anger and disappointment without completely abandoning faith didn't begin with Peter. Mary and Martha were disappointed that Jesus didn't arrive earlier when their brother Lazarus fell sick. They had a problem believing that Christ could raise Lazarus from the dead at that point in time, but they didn't reject who Jesus claimed to be.
In the Old Testament, the Prophet Jonah seemed to be angered at God's command to preach to the Ninevites. "Belief" in God however was never an issue. In fact, ironically, the apparent problem he seemed to have was his understanding of God's 'goodness'. It's ironic in the face of contemporary accusations that God is evil by misunderstanding of, or purposeful misrepresentation of scripture. The Prophet Jonah knew that God would forgive the Ninevites if they repented.
Why do Christians become atheists/agnostics, Buddhists, etc.?
Humans don't become Christians via osmosis. Being brought up in church for instance will not produce a spiritual union with Christ 'without' that revelation that God gave to the Apostle Peter. Without that revelation, one 'can' purchase the sales pitch of an activist atheist, Buddhist, etc.
Revelations from gods are not unique and yours is but one..

http://convertingtoislam.com/quran.html
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#4 Sep 27, 2013
[QUOTE who="Job"
Why do Christians become atheists/agnostics, Buddhists, etc.?
Humans don't become Christians via osmosis. Being brought up in church for instance will not produce a spiritual union with Christ 'without' that revelation that God gave to the Apostle Peter. Without that revelation, one 'can' purchase the sales pitch of an activist atheist, Buddhist, etc.[/QUOTE]

No..Peter said ' repent and be baptized and you will receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit....this promise is to you and YOUR CHILDREN and as many as Jehovah may call."

So the Holy Spirit is not only promises to the one called , but their children are included.

Why Christians lose faith in generally caused by 'famine' not famine for literal bread but for ' hearing the word of Christ'

Because faith comes by hearing..hearing the word about Christ.

So also materialism and anxieties of life, Jesus taught us can crowd the 'seed'[ word] and strangle it so it can't grow..so parents caught up in the anxieties and materialism of life , give up teaching their children and bringing them up in the mental regulation of Jehovah...So they send their children out into a world 'famished' and the child hungry for spiritual things becomes prey to false religions, false ideologies , false reasonings , because they have lost the 'life skills' Jesus teaches us....

that is why they end up Buddhists and Islamic recruits..

I always blame the parents for kids being caught up in false ideologies because they have neglected their duty.

Children are hungry ..they are starving for spiritual GUIDANCE.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#5 Sep 28, 2013
Mojaddabull wrote:
<quoted text>
Revelations from gods are not unique and yours is but one..
http://convertingtoislam.com/quran.html
I'd be interested in hearing your testimony. Can you please tell me about your conversion?
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#6 Sep 28, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
No..Peter said ' repent and be baptized and you will receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit....this promise is to you and YOUR CHILDREN and as many as Jehovah may call."
So the Holy Spirit is not only promises to the one called , but their children are included.
Why Christians lose faith in generally caused by 'famine' not famine for literal bread but for ' hearing the word of Christ'
Because faith comes by hearing..hearing the word about Christ.
So also materialism and anxieties of life, Jesus taught us can crowd the 'seed'[ word] and strangle it so it can't grow..so parents caught up in the anxieties and materialism of life , give up teaching their children and bringing them up in the mental regulation of Jehovah...So they send their children out into a world 'famished' and the child hungry for spiritual things becomes prey to false religions, false ideologies , false reasonings , because they have lost the 'life skills' Jesus teaches us....
that is why they end up Buddhists and Islamic recruits..
I always blame the parents for kids being caught up in false ideologies because they have neglected their duty.
Children are hungry ..they are starving for spiritual GUIDANCE.
If a believer's child is destined to be a "child of God", it doesn't mean that they will believe right away. There are very Godly parents who as far we one can tell did everything they could to teach their children the ways of God, and their children 'still' go wayward. So I wouldn't say that it's 'always' the parents fault. Sometimes there 'are' those children who need to go through the "prodigal son" experience before they either come back from a backsliding state (backsliding believers), or eventually at some point becoming "born again", often as adults, as they were not believers in their early years.
Mojaddabull

San Diego, CA

#7 Sep 28, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd be interested in hearing your testimony. Can you please tell me about your conversion?
Have you given a testimony with details of your revelation and conversion on Topix yet?

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#8 Sep 28, 2013
Job wrote:
Yes! Might be one of the biggest wastes of time to attempt to do so.
An example, the apostle Peter. His understanding of who Christ is came straight from God the Father, so it would have been impossible to convince him otherwise. Had God the father 'not' revealed Himself to Peter, he could have been swayed at some point to disbelieve who Christ said He was.
Ah, but Peter denied that he knew Christ 3 times. Yes, but that doesn't mean that he stopped believing the "revelation" given to him by God the Father. Although he did 'deny' that he was a follower of Christ, he was actually following him (literally). Peter was evidently overcome with emotion as he seemed to be angered by the accusations. The Bible doesn't go into detail as to the thoughts of Peter at the time, but he may very well have been angered, or disappointed with Christ. At one point he was rebuked by Jesus who pointed out to him that his very words were that of Satan. Jesus also healed a soldier who's ear was cutoff by Peter while Peter attempted to protect Jesus.
Anger and disappointment without completely abandoning faith didn't begin with Peter. Mary and Martha were disappointed that Jesus didn't arrive earlier when their brother Lazarus fell sick. They had a problem believing that Christ could raise Lazarus from the dead at that point in time, but they didn't reject who Jesus claimed to be.
In the Old Testament, the Prophet Jonah seemed to be angered at God's command to preach to the Ninevites. "Belief" in God however was never an issue. In fact, ironically, the apparent problem he seemed to have was his understanding of God's 'goodness'. It's ironic in the face of contemporary accusations that God is evil by misunderstanding of, or purposeful misrepresentation of scripture. The Prophet Jonah knew that God would forgive the Ninevites if they repented.
Why do Christians become atheists/agnostics, Buddhists, etc.?
Humans don't become Christians via osmosis. Being brought up in church for instance will not produce a spiritual union with Christ 'without' that revelation that God gave to the Apostle Peter. Without that revelation, one 'can' purchase the sales pitch of an activist atheist, Buddhist, etc.
That's one side of the coin.

The other can be that people caught up IN the faith begin seeing how little it changes the lives of those practicing it. When you can't be inspired by a deity to do good things, then is there really a deity involved?
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#10 Sep 28, 2013
Mojaddabull wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you given a testimony with details of your revelation and conversion on Topix yet?
Yes I have. A number of times.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#11 Sep 28, 2013
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
That's one side of the coin.
The other can be that people caught up IN the faith begin seeing how little it changes the lives of those practicing it. When you can't be inspired by a deity to do good things, then is there really a deity involved?
Most Christians will probably tell you that they witnessed both dramatic positive changes, and less than positive. I've known Christians who were from my perspective great representatives of the faith, others not as much.

But those that don't seem to present much positive growth are not able to effect my belief in God. If God has become real to someone, Christians who don't appear Christlike really have nothing to do with whether or not God exists.

But that's the least of my problems. If anything, it's the Christians that are far better than I that cause me concern.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Santa Fe, NM

#12 Sep 28, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
Most Christians will probably tell you that they witnessed both dramatic positive changes, and less than positive. I've known Christians who were from my perspective great representatives of the faith, others not as much.
But those that don't seem to present much positive growth are not able to effect my belief in God. If God has become real to someone, Christians who don't appear Christlike really have nothing to do with whether or not God exists.
But that's the least of my problems. If anything, it's the Christians that are far better than I that cause me concern.
How do you know there are far far better Christians than you? After all, you probably don't even know you're a paranoiac conspiracy theorist. What you don't know can't hurt you.

God bless you.
Punisher

Brooklyn, NY

#13 Sep 28, 2013
Not sure what the Questions are or aren't here...Job what are going after here...?

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#14 Sep 28, 2013
The Stairway To Heaven wrote:
<quoted text>
Could be, and His chosen may have it tougher in this world than those that will not join Him in Everlasting Life. I don't believe those that will be saved are given a better life in this world, as that is not the reward Christ has offered through His sacrifice. It is about what is to come, eternally. That is why it requires faith. True Life begins for those with death.
Or, the rich tell you that so when you become destitute and starving, you think you are going to be rewarded in the afterlife and you never b^tch and moan in this one.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#15 Sep 28, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
Most Christians will probably tell you that they witnessed both dramatic positive changes, and less than positive. I've known Christians who were from my perspective great representatives of the faith, others not as much.
But those that don't seem to present much positive growth are not able to effect my belief in God. If God has become real to someone, Christians who don't appear Christlike really have nothing to do with whether or not God exists.
But that's the least of my problems. If anything, it's the Christians that are far better than I that cause me concern.
Who BELIEVE they are far better than you? I'm confused and intrigued by your last sentence
Mojaddabull

San Diego, CA

#16 Sep 28, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I have. A number of times.
Feel free to give it again, a mental vision from Jesus Christ?

Actually, I've never had a religious experience. I was just pointing out revelations from gods are not unique and yours is but one..I gave that link about the Koran because it is a religion that came about by way of revelation like yours. Two different Gods giving revelations to people and yours saying the other people are on their way to hell..Doesn't that strike you as nuts for lack of a better word?
Mojaddabull

San Diego, CA

#20 Sep 28, 2013
The Doctor wrote:
<quoted text>It is always wonderful. You know, I have never heard an unbeliever tell of a revelation from God and their decision consequently to reject God.
That's because unbelievers don't have the mental condition that allows revelations in the mind..

People with the mental condition Schizophrenia gives them visions & revelations not unlike the reason religious people have visions & revelations. The only difference, religious people have an insecurity about death. This gives them the mental condition needed for mental stimulation about gods that will save them from their insecurity..Look at what religious stimulation & revelations did for the 900+ men, women & children that killed themselves at Jonestown.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_...

Since: Sep 13

Hickory, NC

#22 Sep 28, 2013
When a person has been on their own personal "road to Damascus" and have had a true experience with Christ. there is no turning back! Those who have turned away, I doubt they ever truly knew the Savior. People look for the peace that God promises along with His blessings. However these promises are contingent upon repentance and obedience which a majority of the church greatly lacks. So when complacent sinners, tolerant of sin fail to experience the abundant Spiritual life they tend to fall away and loose what faith they did have. Contrary to popular christianity that fills football stadiums , The God of the Bible requires obedience.
Mojaddabull

San Diego, CA

#23 Sep 28, 2013
The Doctor wrote:
<quoted text>Then how do you explain the Jim Jones cult suicide massacre. You know, they were atheists and so was he.
Not only was he a Christian, Jim Jones share the pulpit with Rev. William M. Branham, a healing evangelist and religious author as highly revered by some as Oral Roberts and Billy Graham.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#24 Sep 28, 2013
FisherOfMen4Christ wrote:
When a person has been on their own personal "road to Damascus" and have had a true experience with Christ. there is no turning back! Those who have turned away, I doubt they ever truly knew the Savior. People look for the peace that God promises along with His blessings. However these promises are contingent upon repentance and obedience which a majority of the church greatly lacks. So when complacent sinners, tolerant of sin fail to experience the abundant Spiritual life they tend to fall away and loose what faith they did have. Contrary to popular christianity that fills football stadiums , The God of the Bible requires obedience.
How does one distinguish between a comforting delusion and a real religious experience? It certainly must have comforted and emboldened the Norse and the Greeks going into battle believing that Odin or Zeus was on their side and if they should be killed they would be rewarded in Valhalla or the Elysian Fields. Do you think their religious feelings were real?
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#25 Sep 28, 2013
The USA and people of northwestern European descent are the lost house of Israel, also called "Ephraim", the youngest son of Joseph. We have not learned from the past and we are repeating it. Hosea 4:17-18 "Ephraim is joined to idols, let him alone. Their drink is sour, they have committed whoredom continually..." An idol is the physical representation of a (dead) god and the vineyard has brought forth sour grapes. Isaiah 5:1-7. "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts". Before Israel can be taught the Truth, they have to be extricated from their idols.

Since: Sep 13

Hickory, NC

#26 Sep 28, 2013
Until they took there last breath it was real to them. I have witnessed the power of God with my eyes. Not just a feeling. He promises to manifest Himself to a person and when He does it is a very profound experience that will change a person forever. You will experience this manifestation according to Jn 16:24 - He who has my commandments(which requires reading Gods Word) and keeps them( lives in obedience) it is him who loves me, and he who loves me will also be loved of my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to Him. The thing about the true God, a Christian has a very deep and personal relationship , divine healing, and more blessings than can be expressed here. The most important blessing is eternal life in paradise. This is a stark contrast to some man made impersonal god The challenge is there for all skeptics. Who will you choose? Will you let God manifest Himself to you? Tomorrow may be too late! Today is the day now is the day of Salvation! A person can begin with a clean slate right now and have a right standing before God Almighty. If I can be of service to anyone please get in touch.

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