Is eternal punishment a contradiction...
jooce

Long Beach, CA

#4424 Aug 31, 2009
Gibraltar wrote:
Gillette
I have said this before, but I'll share it with you now.
This is just an example for you to consider
and not necessarily the exact way things will occur...
When I stand before the Lord, He will seperate me good from evil. spirits
The evil spirits that reside in me will be cast out,
and all that remains will be the spirits of righteousness that is of God.
This, in my opinion, is how mankind is redeemed.
There are many examples given to us in the New Testament,
where Jesus did this very thing for folks.
And, I have no reason to believe that He will change
and start doing anything otherwise in the future.
We will, everyone, be purged of all unrighteousness,
become cleansed and made whole again,
so that we all can inherit eternal life.
And, this is my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Thatta Boy Gib, Bravo, Bravo! You get a standing ovation from me, you have just made my day :D
Gibraltar

Spring Hill, KS

#4425 Aug 31, 2009
jooce wrote:
<quoted text>Thatta Boy Gib, Bravo, Bravo! You get a standing ovation from me, you have just made my day :D
I definately misunderstood that earlier you were talking to Gillette and not me, when I posted all those responses to you.

Sorry about that.

I'm goofy that way sometimes.

:)
Gibraltar

Spring Hill, KS

#4426 Aug 31, 2009
jooce wrote:
<quoted text>Yea well I really don't like arguing about what is in my opinion and mine only, silly-nilly things! I really couldn't care less about why the RCC named Peter as their rock. As far as I'm concerned, "side issues" is our adversary's way of taking our minds off of our truly wonderful & beautiful Saviour, Jesus Christ, who has saved the whole world, due to his selfless sacrifice at Calvary. You can talk about side issues all you want. I will talk about how and why God loves His whole Creation and never damned ANY of His own offspring to burn with devils in hell :>
jooce, just so you'll know, this post is very insightful.

I know that I sure enjoyed reading it.

“In the rustling of the leaves”

Since: Dec 07

Washington, D.C.

#4427 Aug 31, 2009
Chicago Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew 18:19-20 (New International Version)
Matthew 18
19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
This reminds me of an old Shaker hymn!

"... Where ever two or more of you
Are gathered in My Name
There is Love..."
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#4428 Aug 31, 2009
>>>jooce
Yea well I really don't like arguing about what is in my opinion and mine only, silly-nilly things!

>>>GIllette
Well, when you forcefully state your opinion on a public Internet discussion board (and tell me you've lost respect for me for holding a contrary opinion), you are likely to get disagreement from time to time.

>>>jooce
I really couldn't care less about why the RCC named Peter as their rock.

>>>GIllette
Me neither. I'm just saying that those who say there is no scriptural basis for it are deluding themselves. There IS, both from a Catholic point of view and from a plain reading of the text.

By the way, I was raised Catholic, and although I'm no longer a Christian, a certain kind of Protestant anti-Catholicism will tend to get an immediate reaction from me.

>>>jooce
As far as I'm concerned, "side issues" is our adversary's way of taking our minds off of our truly wonderful & beautiful Saviour, Jesus Christ, who has saved the whole world, due to his selfless sacrifice at Calvary.

>>>GIllette
I don't have an "adversary." I think that if we THINK we have an evil boogaboo adversary, then we DO. Otherwise, not.

>>>jooce
You can talk about side issues all you want. I will talk about how and why God loves His whole Creation and never damned ANY of His own offspring to burn with devils in hell :>

>>>GIllette
Then why choose to become involved in the discussion about Peter and the Rock, etc.?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#4429 Aug 31, 2009
>>>>jooce
As far as I'm concerned, "side issues" is our adversary's way of taking our minds off of our truly wonderful & beautiful Saviour, Jesus Christ, who has saved the whole world, due to his selfless sacrifice at Calvary.

I will talk about how and why God loves His whole Creation and never damned ANY of His own offspring to burn with devils in hell.

>>>Gillette
Aren't paragraphs one and two above in conflict?

What did Jesus' supposed "sacrifice at Calvary" save us from -- if not from eternal damnation, hell, etc.? If Jesus had not "saved us" by his sacrifice, what would have happened, in your opinion?
jooce

Long Beach, CA

#4430 Aug 31, 2009
Chicago Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
James 2:24 (New International Version)
24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Okay, then. So how does this passage not contradict everything you've been saying?
Hi Chicago Guy, I don't know about our brother Ken, but what this verse tells me is that since God gave us faith to believe that Jesus did it all for us at the cross, we shouldn't just sit on our thumbs and do nothing. We should proclaim that belief to the whole world, and the internet is an excellent format to use. As soldiers and servants of Christ, we should spread the "the good news gospel" the real doctrine of Jesus Christ, because IMO, the false doctrine of eternal punishment has turned more people away from God than anything else. If we can help reverse that trend even in the smallest way, it will add more power and glory to God in peoples lives.
jooce

Long Beach, CA

#4431 Aug 31, 2009
Gillette wrote:
>>>>jooce
As far as I'm concerned, "side issues" is our adversary's way of taking our minds off of our truly wonderful & beautiful Saviour, Jesus Christ, who has saved the whole world, due to his selfless sacrifice at Calvary.
I will talk about how and why God loves His whole Creation and never damned ANY of His own offspring to burn with devils in hell.
>>>Gillette
Aren't paragraphs one and two above in conflict?
What did Jesus' supposed "sacrifice at Calvary" save us from -- if not from eternal damnation, hell, etc.? If Jesus had not "saved us" by his sacrifice, what would have happened, in your opinion?
If Jesus hadn't died on the cross for our sins, no one and I mean no one, not Chicago Guy, not Gib, not Ken, not Nettie, not you nor me, or even Scodd would be saved. But God, in all His Great Wisdom & Knowledge of His plan for us, slew Jesus from the foundation of the world. In other words, God planned it that way!
Gibraltar

Spring Hill, KS

#4432 Aug 31, 2009
Gillette

I don't blame you.
My post to you probably don't even deserve a response.

:)

“friends are forever”

Since: Dec 08

Sparta

#4433 Aug 31, 2009
Missionary Man wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi par five, I believe it. And according to adherents.com there are 2.1 billion Christians in the world today. So I guess there must be about 2.1 billion of us who believe this stuff.
<quoted text>
To wonder why God couldn't find "another way" to do something is to imply that the way He has chosen is not the best course of action and that some other method would be better. Usually what we perceive as a "better" method is one that seems right to us. Before we can come to grips with anything God does, we have to first acknowledge that His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts—they are higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8).
Don't you see par five, Jesus had to die?
God cannot let sin go unpunished. To bear our own sins would be to suffer God's judgment in the flames of hell. Praise God, He kept His promise to send and sacrifice the perfect Lamb to bear the sins of those who trust in Him. Jesus had to die because He is the only one who can pay the penalty for our sins.
<quoted text>
God does not need anyone to suffer. One chooses his own eternity through free will. I choose to believe God and His Word. I choose to be a Christian. It's not crazy and it's not depressing. It's awesome! It's exciting! It's amazing! Through Christ' death and resurrection, God has made a way for me to spend eternity in heaven with Him where there will be no more crying and no more pain. No more death and no more sorrow. No more pain. No more wheel chairs. No more chemotherapy. No more broken hearts. No more jail cells. No more divorce. No more tears.
God is holy. Heaven is holy. There will be no sin in heaven. There cannot be sin in heaven. By choice, the sinful are in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter heaven (Revelation 21:27).
Choose life and not death.
Blessings,
Missionary Man
The words "Choose Life" was profound for me 31 yrs ago. I was ready for death, begging for death because the pain I was in was tearing me to pieces & I just wanted it to stop. God said "If you don't want your life then give your life to me & I'll show you what I can do with it. You can still choose to die if that's what you want." He has kept His promise. He has saved my life, not just once but 3 more times!!
He is an awesome God, Jehovah, Father of all. He sent His Son, Jesus, to die for our sins that by His mercy & grace we are saved!
By our own choice as God gave us free will.
He made a way & it is up to each of us to make a choice; Eternal Life or Death.
Please choose life. Peace.
:^)
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#4434 Aug 31, 2009
Saved from what? That's what I was asking.
jooce

Long Beach, CA

#4435 Aug 31, 2009
Gibraltar wrote:
<quoted text>
Again... I don't think the Lord is talking to People, but Spirits.
Consider this...
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Now the serpent (Satan, that old serpent was more subtle (skillful, clever, or ingenious, insidious in operation, cunning, wily and crafty; a subtle liar) than any beast in the field Gen.3:1.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? And Satan said, from going to and fro in the earth. Job 1:7.

...who was slain among you where Satan dwells Re.2:13b.

But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie... Act.5:3.

And behold there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity 18 years...and ought not this woman...whom Satan has bound...Lk.13:11 & 16.

Be sober, be vigilant,: because your adversary (amd mine) the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about seeking whom he may devour [Gk: swallow down] 1Pe.5:8.

But he turned and said unto Peter, get thee behind me Satan!? Because Gib, Satan was looking for lunch. And Peter was going to be Satan's lunch! Satan dines on man's carnality which is enmity against God. At Lk.22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold Satan has desired to have you (lay claim on you) that he may sift you as wheat.

Satan was sifting Simon out of the chaff as a morsel of food to make a meal of him. Jesus saw it coming and prevented it. Satan's domain is the carnal mind, the flesh, the dust of the earth.
Tickedoffchick

Enfield, CT

#4436 Aug 31, 2009
jooce wrote:
<quoted text>Now the serpent (Satan, that old serpent was more subtle (skillful, clever, or ingenious, insidious in operation, cunning, wily and crafty; a subtle liar) than any beast in the field Gen.3:1.
...who was slain among you where Satan dwells Re.2:13b.

But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie... Act.5:3.
And behold there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity 18 years...and ought not this woman...whom Satan has bound...Lk.13:11 & 16.
Be sober, be vigilant,: because your adversary (amd mine) the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about seeking whom he may devour [Gk: swallow down] 1Pe.5:8.
But he turned and said unto Peter, get thee behind me Satan!? Because Gib, Satan was looking for lunch. And Peter was going to be Satan's lunch! Satan dines on man's carnality which is enmity against God. At Lk.22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold Satan has desired to have you (lay claim on you) that he may sift you as wheat.
Satan was sifting Simon out of the chaff as a morsel of food to make a meal of him. Jesus saw it coming and prevented it. Satan's domain is the carnal mind, the flesh, the dust of the earth.
"And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? And Satan said, from going to and fro in the earth. Job 1:7."
So, if for those who believe the Bible, literally, Satan and God were acquaintances, if not friends. Why? why would an all loving, merciful God allow Satan to exist, let alone walk the earth? This passage was stolen from earlier pagan mythology. And, I don't want to hear any insults, from you. I have studied ancient history. You, obviously, have not. You cannot base anything on Babylonian, Akkadian, Sumerian mythology.
Gibraltar

Spring Hill, KS

#4437 Aug 31, 2009
Gillette wrote:
Saved from what? That's what I was asking.
muderous tendencies and the like

did you know that mankind [just in the US]
spends billions each year to watch movies
while in the same span of time millions of children die of hunger

saved from this kind of stuff
and wars
and molestations
lies
theives
etc.
Second Coming of Dave D

Mount Laurel, NJ

#4438 Aug 31, 2009
Gibraltar wrote:
<quoted text>
You are convinced of a lot of things it seems
and none of it is doing you any good whatsoever.
:)
That doesn't change the fact that you are a hypocrite, deluded, and generally speaking, an a-sshole.

I can live with that.
Gibraltar

Spring Hill, KS

#4439 Aug 31, 2009
jooce wrote:
<quoted text>Now the serpent (Satan, that old serpent was more subtle (skillful, clever, or ingenious, insidious in operation, cunning, wily and crafty; a subtle liar) than any beast in the field Gen.3:1.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? And Satan said, from going to and fro in the earth. Job 1:7.
...who was slain among you where Satan dwells Re.2:13b.
But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie... Act.5:3.
And behold there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity 18 years...and ought not this woman...whom Satan has bound...Lk.13:11 & 16.
Be sober, be vigilant,: because your adversary (amd mine) the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about seeking whom he may devour [Gk: swallow down] 1Pe.5:8.
But he turned and said unto Peter, get thee behind me Satan!? Because Gib, Satan was looking for lunch. And Peter was going to be Satan's lunch! Satan dines on man's carnality which is enmity against God. At Lk.22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold Satan has desired to have you (lay claim on you) that he may sift you as wheat.
Satan was sifting Simon out of the chaff as a morsel of food to make a meal of him. Jesus saw it coming and prevented it. Satan's domain is the carnal mind, the flesh, the dust of the earth.
Absolutely!!!!

The Devil and his demons deceive and defile mankind
and cause us to commit all manner of evil.
Second Coming of Dave D

Mount Laurel, NJ

#4440 Aug 31, 2009
jooce wrote:
<quoted text>If Jesus hadn't died on the cross for our sins, no one and I mean no one, not Chicago Guy, not Gib, not Ken, not Nettie, not you nor me, or even Scodd would be saved. But God, in all His Great Wisdom & Knowledge of His plan for us, slew Jesus from the foundation of the world. In other words, God planned it that way!
So then God must have planned for Eve to eat the fruit.

Because if she hadn't eaten it, then mankind would be perfectly free of sin, and there would have been no need for Jesus to have been sacrificed.

That kind of destroys the whole "free will" concept, doesn't it?

This is so much fun - I never get tired of pointing out what b-ullshit beliefs you Christians espouse.
Second Coming of Dave D

Mount Laurel, NJ

#4441 Aug 31, 2009
Gibraltar wrote:
<quoted text>
And since You are talking to a group of devout Christians, where do you think Your Piss is Going?
LOL
Down your throats, along with the blood and flesh of your edible god.

Drink deeply, sonny, the vinegar will do you some good.
Second Coming of Dave D

Mount Laurel, NJ

#4442 Aug 31, 2009
Gibraltar wrote:
Gillette
I have said this before, but I'll share it with you now.
This is just an example for you to consider
and not necessarily the exact way things will occur...
When I stand before the Lord, He will seperate me good from evil. spirits
The evil spirits that reside in me will be cast out,
and all that remains will be the spirits of righteousness that is of God.
This, in my opinion, is how mankind is redeemed.
There are many examples given to us in the New Testament,
where Jesus did this very thing for folks.
And, I have no reason to believe that He will change
and start doing anything otherwise in the future.
We will, everyone, be purged of all unrighteousness,
become cleansed and made whole again,
so that we all can inherit eternal life.
And, this is my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Yes, like burnt bacon sticks to an old pan.

Me, I traded my old s-hit in for some Teflon logic.

Your s-hit is all up in the Kool-Aid and don't even know what flavor.
Gibraltar

Spring Hill, KS

#4443 Aug 31, 2009
Second Coming of Dave D wrote:
<quoted text>
That doesn't change the fact that you are a hypocrite, deluded, and generally speaking, an a-sshole.
I can live with that.
You can live with that?- LOL

Does it keep you up nights?

:)

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