Rapture is False
buck

AOL

#25 Oct 15, 2013
Johnny Trunk wrote:
<quoted text>
John>>
If you read the Bible you will know the rapture is false.
Matthew 24:13
Expanded Bible (EXB)
13 But those people who ·keep their faith [endure; stand firm; persevere] until the end will be saved.
Well Johnny boy, didn't really want to reply, but you are one of those who haven't read the Bible, so you are out to mislead and misguide and we can't have that NO WAY!
or that would mean that the verses in book of Thessalonians are just taking up space. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and used for correction and reproof. these verses tell and signify that there is a "Rapture" when we are gathered together to meet the Lord in the air. Not everyone gets to participate in this event and not everyone sees the Lord at this time, ONLY when he returns with judgement as the book of Jude says.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#26 Oct 22, 2013
The truth works wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't met the Lord yet? What's the hold up? He's all around and pounding on you door. Answer the door man!
This is CLEARLY a literal event!

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV)
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
tahoegirl

Orlando, FL

#27 Oct 22, 2013
dollarsbill
This is CLEARLY a literal event!
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV)
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Jesus says this:
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Are these words of Jesus a literal event?
So who is right Paul or Jesus?
Jesus says the tares are gathered first, doesn't he?
Then the righteous shine, It doesn't say they go anywhere, do it?
Who has ears to hear, let him hear.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#28 Oct 22, 2013
tahoegirl wrote:
dollarsbill
This is CLEARLY a literal event!
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV)
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Jesus says this:
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Are these words of Jesus a literal event?
So who is right Paul or Jesus?
Jesus says the tares are gathered first, doesn't he?
Then the righteous shine, It doesn't say they go anywhere, do it?
Who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Every time I read it it means the same.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV)
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

“ IT'S A CHOICE !!!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#29 Oct 22, 2013
Rapture is False?

Please re-read Daniel...
tahoegirl

Orlando, FL

#30 Oct 23, 2013
dollarsbill
Every time I read it it means the same.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV)
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Well that is a good thing that it means the same thing every time you read it. Its good that you can see that what Jesus says is different than what Paul says, so now all you have to do is decide which one you want to believe, Jesus the son of God, or Paul the false Apostle who is not listed as one of Jesus Apostles, but who claims this office by is own say so. Why did Paul claim to be something that he wasn't and could he then claim other things that might not be true either? There is no rapture of the wheat there is only the taking away of the tares. Read it for yourself the truth will set you free.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#31 Oct 25, 2013
tahoegirl wrote:
dollarsbill
Every time I read it it means the same.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV)
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Well that is a good thing that it means the same thing every time you read it. Its good that you can see that what Jesus says is different than what Paul says, so now all you have to do is decide which one you want to believe, Jesus the son of God, or Paul the false Apostle who is not listed as one of Jesus Apostles, but who claims this office by is own say so. Why did Paul claim to be something that he wasn't and could he then claim other things that might not be true either? There is no rapture of the wheat there is only the taking away of the tares. Read it for yourself the truth will set you free.
Paul was taught DIRECTLY by Jesus. Were you?

“God bless you (o: welcome (o:”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#32 Oct 26, 2013
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV)
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
tahoegirl wrote:
Jesus says this:
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Are these words of Jesus a literal event?
Jesus says "tares" and "wheat", which if "literal" would mean no humans will be gathered. So, I would say this is a literary event ... a parable. The main point intended here is to show how God's people will grow here in this evil world along with the evil people. But in the end there will be separation of the good from the evil ... in due time. This is the meaning of the parable > not meant, I can see, to be an historical thing.
So who is right Paul or Jesus?
Jesus is right, and how He ministers through Paul is right.
Jesus says the tares are gathered first, doesn't he?
In this parable, yes. But this is a parable. Jesus says to gather the tares, "first", yes. But even if this is meant to match with an historical timeline > He does not say when they will be burned, but only "to be burned". The burning, then, can be after the wheat has been taken away to the barn. So, this can in fact fit with Jesus' historical description in Matthew 24:21-31 > the tares are separated into bundles, and held here on earth by the tribulations of God's wrath in Revelation; and while they are held here after the tribulation, the saints get raptured to be with Jesus "in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:17)(c:

Jesus Himself gives an historical timeline in Matthew 24:29-31. And this timeline is a match with what Paul says ... and can, I see, fit with the parable of Jesus.
Then the righteous shine, It doesn't say they go anywhere, do it?
Jesus, in Matthew 24:29-31 says "the elect" will be gathered, plus they will be with Jesus. I think going to be with Jesus is going somewhere. And the parable says the wheat will go to the barn, which is going somewhere.

And Paul, with this, says we will go to be with our Lord Jesus.
tahoegirl

Orlando, FL

#33 Oct 26, 2013
com7fy8

Jesus says "tares" and "wheat", which if "literal" would mean no humans, will be gathered. So, I would say this is a literary event ... a parable. The main point intended here is to show how God's people will grow here in this evil world along with the evil people. But in the end there will be separation of the good from the evil ... in due time. This is the meaning of the parable > not meant, I can see, to be an historical thing.

Yes, I’m sure Jesus wasn’t speaking about any humans at all. I’m sure he was just trying to write literary work, probably just trying to write some short stories, with no deep meanings at all. I’m sure he didn’t have any lessons that were hidden beneath the lines. I’m sure he was just relaying story that good and evil, wheat and tares, would be separated ( Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.) at the end of the world, really didn’t mean at any specific time at all. I’m sure he didn’t want to have any historical time line at all.

Jesus is right, and how He ministers through Paul is right.

Both can’t be right, you can’t have to apposing views be right one must be right and the other wrong, but of course it was only Paul who was taught how the story was told correctly.
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
The 12 Apostles were taught the wrong story it is only Paul, who by the way never once tells us that Jesus ever taught any thing by quoting Jesus words in all of his letters. But of course Paul has got it right when he says how it will be and Jesus just was only talking in vague terms.

In this parable, yes. But this is a parable. Jesus says to gather the tares, "first", yes. But even if this is meant to match with an historical timeline > He does not say when they will be burned, but only "to be burned". The burning, then, can be after the wheat has been taken away to the barn. So, this can in fact fit with Jesus' historical description in Matthew 24:21-31 > the tares are separated into bundles, and held here on earth by the tribulations of God's wrath in Revelation; and while they are held here after the tribulation, the saints get raptured to be with Jesus "in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:17)(c
Part 1 of 2
tahoegirl

Orlando, FL

#34 Oct 26, 2013
com7fy8

Part 2 of 2

par•a•ble (p r -b l)
n.
A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson.
Of course Jesus didn’t say (Mat 13:39 the harvest is the end of the world; ) any historical timeline at all. He doesn’t say they will be burned at any (Mat 13:40 as therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.) specific time at all. He doesn’t stop talking about the tares to talk about the wheat to give us the impression that the that the tares could be burned after the wheat is gathered to the barn. Instead he goes straight to the very next verse in which he says ( Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;) he get the tares out of kingdom.
As far as Mathew 24:26 Jesus warns us about Paul’s false conversion story in the desert (Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:) If you would go a little further to verse (Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Who stayed in the ark and who was TAKEN AWAY.

Jesus Himself gives an historical timeline in Matthew 24:29-31. And this timeline is a match with what Paul says ... and can, I see, fit with the parable of Jesus.

Now you say Jesus does give an historical timeline, wow make up your mind.

Jesus, in Matthew 24:29-31 says "the elect" will be gathered, plus they will be with Jesus. I think going to be with Jesus is going somewhere. And the parable says the wheat will go to the barn, which is going somewhere.

Just like Noah’s days they were gathered up in the boat but they were still hear on earth.

Jesus, in Matthew 24:29-31 says "the elect" will be gathered, plus they will be with Jesus. I think going to be with Jesus is going somewhere. And the parable says the wheat will go to the barn, which is going somewhere.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth,

You will say anything to save tour beloved Paul.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#35 Oct 26, 2013
tahoegirl wrote:
You will say anything to save tour beloved Paul.
Paul wrote more Books of the Bible than anyone. I'll take Paul's credentials over yours. Paul called you IGNORANT.
tahoegirl

Orlando, FL

#36 Oct 27, 2013
dollarsbill
Paul wrote more Books of the Bible than anyone. I'll take Paul's credentials over yours. Paul called you IGNORANT.
So what, you have more posts than anyone on the forum, would that qualify you to be an Apostle. Paul doesn't have any credentials, all he has is his own word that he is an Apostle. As far as Paul calling me ignorant, well, that just shows Paul's fruits, and yours.
I think you meant Peter called me ignorant, 2 Peter 3: 16

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#37 Oct 27, 2013
tahoegirl wrote:
dollarsbill
Paul wrote more Books of the Bible than anyone. I'll take Paul's credentials over yours. Paul called you IGNORANT.
So what, you have more posts than anyone on the forum, would that qualify you to be an Apostle. Paul doesn't have any credentials, all he has is his own word that he is an Apostle. As far as Paul calling me ignorant, well, that just shows Paul's fruits, and yours.
I think you meant Peter called me ignorant, 2 Peter 3: 16
Peter would also call you ignorant as Paul did, indeed.
tahoegirl

Orlando, FL

#38 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill
Peter would also call you ignorant as Paul did, indeed.

I can see you have no knowledge to back up your point of view, other than insults, this is exactly why Christians have a bad name,because they run across, know it all, rude, and very obnoxious trolls like you. TROLL ON TROLL
JohnnyTrunk

Westland, MI

#39 Oct 28, 2013
buck wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Johnny boy, didn't really want to reply, but you are one of those who haven't read the Bible, so you are out to mislead and misguide and we can't have that NO WAY!
or that would mean that the verses in book of Thessalonians are just taking up space. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and used for correction and reproof. these verses tell and signify that there is a "Rapture" when we are gathered together to meet the Lord in the air. Not everyone gets to participate in this event and not everyone sees the Lord at this time, ONLY when he returns with judgement as the book of Jude says.
If you read the Bible you will see that those taken up in the air are resurrected ones, that is what Paul was talking about the resurrection but you just take one verse out of context.
JohnnyTrunk

Westland, MI

#40 Oct 28, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Every time I read it it means the same.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV)
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Your taking one verse out of context read the whole paragraph. Paul was talking about the resurrection, and after they the living die they will be resurrected they will meet the lord in the air

“God bless you (o: welcome (o:”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#41 Nov 1, 2013
Yes, Paul does say that we will be resurrected.

"in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:52)

“God bless you (o: welcome (o:”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#42 Nov 1, 2013
What I'm offering, Tahoe Girl, is that the tares and wheat thing is a parable which does not necessarily mean a historical order.

But in His end-times message of Matthew 24, Jesus appears to provide a historical context, and it does not say He is speaking in a parable. So, this does look to me like it is meant to have a timeline.

And, as far as I can see, Paul does not contradict this timeline.

And how Paul says to love is a match with all that Jesus says about how to love, and how Paul says to love is a match with Jesus Christ's example.

For example, Jesus says, "I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29) And Paul says, "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2) So, Paul wants us to be lowly and gentle in how we love. And Jesus says He is "gentle and lowly in heart". And Jesus says for us to love one another as He has loved us.

So, Paul agrees with Jesus on this, including also how Paul says, "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15) So, Jesus guarantees us "rest for your souls", and Paul says God wants us to be ruled in our Father's peace, in our hearts. This is very personal, how our Father does rule us, right in our hearts; and Jesus guarantees us "rest for your souls," while we obey Him in His love's peace ruling in us.

Also, Paul says, "And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2) So, Paul agrees with how Jesus "has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." So, we do well to give ourselves to God, in love, and be sacrificed to going through things sweetly in love (c:

So, God bless you with this (c:

“God bless you (o: welcome (o:”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#43 Nov 1, 2013
tahoegirl wrote:
com7fy8
Jesus says "tares" and "wheat", which if "literal" would mean no humans, will be gathered. So, I would say this is a literary event ... a parable. The main point intended here is to show how God's people will grow here in this evil world along with the evil people. But in the end there will be separation of the good from the evil ... in due time. This is the meaning of the parable > not meant, I can see, to be an historical thing.
tahoegirl wrote:
Yes, I’m sure Jesus wasn’t speaking about any humans at all. I’m sure he was just trying to write literary work, probably just trying to write some short stories, with no deep meanings at all. I’m sure he didn’t have any lessons that were hidden beneath the lines. I’m sure he was just relaying story that good and evil, wheat and tares, would be separated ( Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.) at the end of the world, really didn’t mean at any specific time at all. I’m sure he didn’t want to have any historical time line at all.
Well, He does explain, later, that the parable includes meaning what will happen "at the end of the world". Even though He does not say this, right in the parable, He does explain this, later.

But does He specify when the tares get burned?

It looks like Revelation is saying the wheat will be in the first resurrection ... of the righteous. And then the tares will be "taken care of" (my expression-quote).

So, this could be taken to not be a match with Jesus saying the tares will be removed, first, after the harvest. But this is not what Paul wrote. So, do you also believe Revelation is false? Ones understand that John wrote Revelation. Do you believe John is legitimate, or not?

I can see that Jesus means that there will be the harvest > the "Rapture". And the tares will automatically be removed, by not being taken up to be with the Lord in the air. But later they will be burned. But this "Rapture" which is a resurrection is "post-trib." > "Immediately after the tribulation of those days," Jesus says in Matthew 24:29-31.

I can see that in the harvest, the wheat is gathered up by the workers, removing the tares to stay on the ground to later be burned.
tahoegirl

Orlando, FL

#44 Nov 1, 2013
com7fy8" Says:
But does He specify when the tares get burned?

Yes he does, it is before the wheat is dealt with.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Jesus starts talking about the wheat first, but in the same verse he abruptly changes subject in the second half of the verse to the tares. So he is telling us the order is the tares are taken care of first.

Then in verses 39-42 the only subject is the tares and the tares only.

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

In verses 13:39-42 the subject matter is the same, it is about the tares, and what is going to happen to the tares and it says they will be burned at the end of the world. It also says they will be taken out of his kingdom.

But then in verse 43 he changes subject back to the wheat and no only does he change subject he also says " Then shall" so he is placing an order of first the tares are dealt with and "then shall" the wheat be dealt with secondly

Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

com7fy8 says:
So, this could be taken to not be a match with Jesus saying the tares will be removed, first, after the harvest. But this is not what Paul wrote. So, do you also believe Revelation is false? Ones understand that John wrote Revelation. Do you believe John is legitimate, or not?

No, I don't believe Revelation is false nor do I think Revelation contradicts Mathew.

con7fy8 says:
And, as far as I can see, Paul does not contradict this timeline.

Paul's timeline is clearly different than what Jesus says.

Paul clearly say the righteous go first (rapture) and the evil ones are left to occupy the earth. This does not make any since, that would leave Jesus to have his thousand year reign with the evil ones, not his righteous saints in the thousand years. Jesus is not coming back to rule the evil people, he comes to rule the righteous as revelation says in verse 20:4.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

What Paul says makes no since at all, when put with what Jesus says and what John a real Apostle says. John's word line up exactly with Jesus and more so they make since with what Jesus says.

Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
Luke 9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

Jesus was talking to his true chosen 12 Apostles which included John, not Paul. So who do I believe, I believe John and Jesus, who do you believe?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Christian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
SUPER SERVERs 9 hr Neo Neo Neo 11
What religion was Enoch, Noah, and Abraham? (Oct '12) 10 hr Dumbofluck 1,578
False Teachings of Jews that defy their Holy Sc... 10 hr Dumbofluck 72
Believers are not to judge non-believers. (Dec '11) 21 hr bead50 70
Early Christianity (Dec '16) 21 hr Barmsweb 2,328
judgment coming to america 21 hr Barmsweb 117
The False Teachings of the Hebrew Israelites, s... (Jan '14) 21 hr Barmsweb 1,364
More from around the web